Well, the saga continues. On Friday nite my wife was out at a baby shower with our ciccle of Christian friends. I was home alone, miserable and depressed. So what do I do? Read their IM's and e-mails and learn that YES, she did see him last week, twice, sex both times, and she wrote him an e-mail 5 minutes after speaking to me on phone, telling him how much she wished he was in the shower with her. Talk about pain.<p>Than, my masochism reached new heights as I went on-line and IM'd OM. He repeated same old stuff, he's not the problem, never planned it, just happened, etc. But I also learned that he FOLLOWED my wife to my kid's school so he could see what they look like. When I told him to stay away from my kids, he said he had to start planning for their future! Then he said there was no turning back for him and my WW. And that she made her decision a long time ago, before he even met her. I told him about the great weekend WW and I had together and it turns out he didn't even know we were alone w/o kids and WW told him it was a miserable weekend, fighting all the time, etc.<p>Then, my WW walks in in middle of IM. I got off but she caught us. She flipped out, saying that she had a great time at shower but knew when she got home it would be misery. I couldn't take it anymore and I CONFRONTED HER WITH THE E-MAILS I HAD READ (Major LB)! Her reaction was that I lied to her when I said I wouldn't read her e-mail, that I'll never change, etc. No remorse or senstivity to the fact that I read her erotic e-mail to him!!! So I told her I can't take it anymore and that maybe she should consider moving out. She told me she will never ever leave her kids and I would be the one moving out. I had to go pick up kids, so I left.<p>While I was gone she IM's him , pulling a major drama queen, telling him I kicked her out of house, threatened her, she was scared, she was going to call police, could he come and rescue her, etc, etc. After she calmed down he asked her if what I told him about our weekend was true. She said I lied about weekend, that I would say and do anytihng to ruin their love, that he has to believe her, etc. He said of course he believes her.<p>Then he sends me an e-mail, attaching the transcript of their IM session, and me and his IM session. Asking which one is true. So I showed WW his e-mail and showed her my response. All I said was that I told 100% truth. WW flipped out and tried to prevent me from sending that note, but I did. We went to bed.<p>In middle of nite I sent further e-mail, telling OM that he is dealing with a very complicated woman, that I could tell him stories, but that it's up to him to find out for himself. In the morning (7:00 am) i tried to unsend that e-mail, but it was too late. So I sent a follow up to him, telling him I didn't mean for hi mto read it, if he hadn't please delete. Then I confessed what I did to WW and she had a fit, but then she said she forgave me. <p>We had 2 GREAT DAYS! We talked about where things were headed. My WW was crying as she listened to me explain what life would be like in divorce, with me only seeing kids on weekends, and them living with her and him. She insisted that would never happen. I told her that is where things are headed because I cannot live with her indefinitely while she coninues with OM. She said she'll do anything to keep kids happy. She kept saying how sorry she was.<p>Then, Sunday night, she IM's him and he told her not to listen to me, that I was just trying to scare her, that everything will work out, that love conquers all, etc. He told her that the kids will get over it, and they are resileint. She ended IM saying that she felt much better.<p>Then, I stayed home Monday. We went for a 5 mile walk in the snow, had a great day together. Then we went to mall and LB'ing began in eanrest. She wanted a new, tight sexy blouse. The previous weekend I had bought her a few nice things, but I had asked her not to wear them for him. She said she would never do that, but then of course she did exactly that 3 days later. So this time I told her I can't really buy her any more nice things as long as she continues to see him. That it isn't fair to me (LB'ing). Well, she flipped, saying "Fine, I should never buy her anything again the rest of her life. Take away the checking acct, credit cards, etc. Keep controlling, keep forcing, I'm really acting lovable,etc". Later in day, WW was cracking her gum and my 15 y/o D asked her to stop. WW said no, its not bothering anyone. D said "all you care about is yourself". I said nothing. Later, I pulled D aside and spoke to her about her disrespect. But later, WW got all over me for not disciplining D for that disrespectful remark. She then said, "I guess that's just a taste of what she'll be like if we divorce, huh?" I told her "It will be 100 times worse". More LB'ing.<p>As we were getting ready for bed, I noticed a new sexy pair of panties in her hamper. I said "It looks like she is building up quite a collection,
how much did that pair cost me?" (More LB'ing) Well, that did it. She totally flipped, saying I will never change, that she knows all she needs to know, that I am a liar who can't keep my promises, etc. We got into it and I reminded her that what she is doing is going to destroy our family (more LB'ing). She said "FINE! You will get your way. You will get what you want. I'll take care of it and you'll have your little wife, and your little family, and I'll be F'ing miserable the rest of my life".<p>So we went to sleep. This AM i apologized for my LB'ing. I told her that I need to realize that she is having the most difficult time of anyone and that I need to be more compassionate and considerate of her, that I have been focusing too much on my own pain, not hers. That I will do better. I also told her not to make any decisions yet, because they aren't based on the right reasons. She promised to read first 4 or 5 chapters of SAA, to pray, pray, pray, and then to talk to me openly before she does anything. I asked her if she could please just cool it with OM for a week so she can think straight, but she wouldn't respond. I told her I love her and I will try harder.<p>So now what?? I'm back at work. She is back in his world (calling him, IM'ing him, seeing him) I know I have to put together a few days without even mentioning the whole mess, but it is near impossible???<p>Advice, anyone?

Wow, when I read your message it felt like what could have happened in my situation. I honestly don't know how you are able to deal with this as well as you have.<p>I've thought alot about my situation and I really believe that the only reason I have been able to even think about a future with my wife is because OM is out of the picture.<p>I'm dealing with trying to decide to move back in my house and let her leave but if she kept on as your W is doing it would make my choice that much easier. The hurt just grows, I don't know how you do it but I admire your dedication.<p>I'm horrible giving advice so keep that in mind but if I were you I would tell her to leave. It's easier for me because I own our house but I'm really starting to believe that if our WS's don't have to live the consequences at some point that they will never change. I'll mention you in my prayers, why can't our spouses see our devotion for what it is instead of some controlling thing. My wife said that she feels like I treat her like a posession.....that's so hurtful.

boppo, I think you know what you did wrong, you have to stay out of her affair....and you have to be a safe place....you are doing neither. One could even make the argument you are controlling (and just have a good excuse now), and she does need to get away fromn you...is that what you want? Cause that is what you are doing. Plan a, plan b etc is all very specific, you will get all the advice you need here, but none of it will do you any good until you LET HER GO. She does not belong to you, you cannot educate her, and I suspect you have been controlling things all your marriage (for her own good of course)....you on trial here boppo, not her...she made her decision, to leave you, and acted on it, affair....and you just keep validating it...I suspect if had no kids, she would be long gone.<p>Now you know why you stay out of the emails etc...cause you cannot KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT.... snooping means you keep it to yourself so you can make intelligent decisions...YOU CANNOT STOP THE AFFAIR, she has to do it, for her own reasons...the guy IMO is a loser anyways, he is fighting with you for your wife, it is disgusting, and has nothing to do with love....your wife is revealed as a major manipulator herself, and you are not helping her overcome that cause you are aggressing her. This whole thing is a 3 ring circus....you have to let her go boppo, do your thing, let her make her own choices and hope (pray) for the best...what will be will be, but then if she leaves you know you did your best...now you are driving her away!!! Good luck.

Oh yeah, what to do....APOLOGIZE, and tell her will not happen again...and DON'T do it again. Now is probably not the time, buy you could request she at least tell you when she is seeing om so you can be respected, PROMISE and keep it, you will say nothing, nor interfere in any way, that you understand she has to make her own decisions.

Sorry about your pain Boppo... the letters/emails from WS to OP or visa versa are so damn hurtful. Its so painful that she knows how much it all hurts you yet keeps doing it. I think of it sort of like someone who loves you sticking a icepick in you, telling you they love you and while pressing it in. My wife tells me im overly dramatic but I think thats what it feels like emotionally. I can only begin to imagine you pain because of the length of our relationship and your children.<p>How they can tell you one thing and tell the OP something opposite is beyond me. How they can twist or forget fact and history is amazing. I also don't understand how a WP can claim to be relgious and justify adulty. I guess thats the FOG SAA talks about.<p>I know this is much easier for me to say than to act, but the only thing I can suggest is to try to bite your tounge think about what you say before you say it. its hard as hell.. and I know it almost flys inthe face of the policy of honesty. or sharing feelings. But think about what you are saying. is it productive? or is it just hurt or anger. Your wife isnt in the position to be the strong one now, you have to be.. do your best to absorb all the barbs and actions and harsh words. Release them in exercise or whatever other stress reliever you have. <p>Sounds like you are working really hard, we just have to try a little harder each day i guess. Sometimes that means just giving a little space I think. <p>SnL's advice while a little harsh may be right. Do your best to apologize for LB'ing and keep up the plan A. <p>Good luck!<p>[ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: HangingIn ]</p>

Well... we could be twins... I did the same things you are doing... nice times sandwiched with huge LB sessions... WH telling me that I would never change that I was controlling that he didn't want to be around me...<p>You have to stop. Stop reading the emails... stop talking to OM... it is just torture for you... and the torture won't end... cause months from now you will replay the stuff in your head... and suppose you and your wife are still together... in the middle of *** a line or phrase or something they said will pop in your head... that is what I deal with now...<p>YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE FOCUS OFF THE AFFAIR. Given time and reality the affair will more than likely die... but just like a teenager who's dating someone you don't like... the more you push your wife... the closer she'll get to him...<p>Plan A is to take stock of who you are and what you'd like to change... make those changes... become strong... focus on you and your family... don't focus on the affair... the more and harder you pursue... the farther and faster she will run...<p>Cali

See I told you my advice is bad! I'm only a week in and I haven't mastered the concepts they teach you here. It's really hard but these folks know better than I and give you good advice.

I know how hard it is to not LB when you know that the WS is still in contact with the OP. WITH THAT SAID, stop the LB. You are not helping your situation at all. I have been there. There are a lot of BS here that have been. And time and time again I see the same theme. Stop the LB, Plan A hard and they will notice. I was so bad at the Plan A thing up front that Steve Harley told me to go to Plan B (I think mainly to save me from myself). At the time I thought that would kill any chance that I would have to save my marriage. Looking back now I see that my pitiful attempt at Plan A was what was killing my chances. <p>Six months in Plan B and many changes for myself later and guess what I am back in Plan A and actually doing a much better job this time. What helps when I want to LB? I have some great friends who listen to me vent and I come here and read a lot. <p>Hang in there. Do not beat yourself up for falling off the Plan A wagon. Get up and get back on. Hit it hard and be the best you that you can be.

Again, thanks to all you kind people for your replies. I know I have to try harder. Each morning, when I put my feet on the floor, I make the commitment again. <p>I was thinking that tonite, when WW picks me up at train, I will tell her that I know i can't be her lover right now, or even her husband, but I'd like to be her friend. Is that a good plan? Or should i just keep my mouth shut and ACT,ACT,ACT (no more talk). I'm afraid that my good Plan A stuff goes unnoticed, while my LB'ing causes catastrophe.<p>Thanks Cali, for advice on stopping snooping. You told me that last week and I should've listened, would've saved myself alot of heartache.

That's right... be John Wayne... little talk, LOTS of action...<p>Show don't tell.<p>btw... not talking about IT or HER or MARRIAGE will more than likely get HER to think about it... while you're doing all the thinking and talking she doesn't have to... LET WHAT HAS HAPPENED ECHO IN HER EARS...<p>
Cali

just for the record boppo, I am ws, and a difficult one at that....believe me, NOTHING goes unnoticed.

I do not know about this plan a, totally confused. .. about advice to live and let live... while affair continues in the same house? Are you living together.... it sounds like it, I would not be able to deal with it... You must have patience of JOb... to live with W in active affair... this is complete disrespect.. please see my plan a thread today with advice from my mb endorsing counselor.. he says plan a does not mean you put up with affiar... you step back and say basicially I am out until affair is over, but I do not have to retalitate or act bad just because you (ws)_ do... In other words you are nice and kind and loving in the face of their cruelty and total disrespect of you and your vows... but you do not put up with it... you seperate from it, you do not trade off... one dayu with me... one day with op... it is confusing to me... I know some of you have had counseling with steve h...? Does he really reccomend this?<p>Thanks, and godspeed to you. HONEY