Today a MB therapist... advised.. not the harleys, but one who is very familiar with concepts, etc...<p>that plan A is only not reacting back with anger to crzed things, and bad behavior our affair having spousing have...<p>IT is not, being taken advantage of.... etc... as my suppossed behavior was doing... I was going to ws house, having sf, even when he was disrespectful of me, not complaining... well that is plan a... and basically being doormat,... major enabling..<p>I have seen posted plan a enables... I do not agree after my talk today... he clearly stated...<p>PLAN A is only to keep you being nice and respectful of someone who disrespects you... you do not be a doormat - my therapist sd... even when in plan a... you do not get walked on... you can respect you more, because you do not act in bad ways back... to this person who is mistreating you... the beloved spuose... as they should...<p>OK, does that make sense? I was VERY happy to hear this definition, as I have unclearly let myself be treated badly... we do not have to, and we can still be nice... we can walk away some in plan a... do not fight back... but do not get walked on... <p>I would love to hear comments, suggestions and feedback and think this is good topic for discussion as I was confused myself.<p>Thanks, HONEY [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Honey, I have something to say about Plan A. I realized today that I may be more of a mother to my H instead of a W. My H will not talk about our marriage. He says it hurts to much. What would a wife do? As a mother, I wanted to hold him and tell him everything would be alright. I don't think I know what to do as a wife. <p>To get to my point about Plan A, I would think a wife would be more forceful and not let him get away with not talking. I would think a wife would say "Don't I deserve some respect." I would think a wife would say me or her.However, how do you do this in Plan A? I think you are right. Plan A can't mean we have to be doormats. I think we have to show that we do deserve some respect as the BS. I think we maybe able to be nice, but too much nice without a little steel behind it, may make us all into Harriett Nelson on "Leave it to Beaver."

I tend to agree in principle...<p>Plan A is not about BEING a doormat, although often times, one FEELS like a doormat. That's an important difference.<p>My personal take is this: it's about taking back your life. And so, you get to work on your own personal growth, get to focus on building something new, starting alone in a sense. And I think it even makes sense to subtly let the WS know that you can be lost to them - that the confidence, strength and personal values you demonstrate in the face of the worst hurt humanly imaginable - will be a treasured trait by SOMEONE out there in the future - and that if WS wants to pass it up... it's their loss. They won't find someone of a Plan A'ers character in an OP, for sure!

HI, Thanks for the feedback... and about being a mom to your spouse... <p>My therapist today said... you are being a MOther to your S, not wife... stop being mother... this is codependent... enabling behavir at least on my part... yes, wife, says NO I do not deserve this... my THER sd... YOU DO NOT DESERVE THIS< you did nothing to deserve this... THIS IS not RIGHT.<p>He sd... step back, do not call your spouse... let him come to you... when he calls and asks what happened , and where did you go? SAY< I am stepping back because I need a sign from you... indication... etc... that you are willing to work on our marriage and honor your committment to me... (you made in our marriage covenant)- I am adding parens.... <p>I am not taking this sh__ any longer I add.. this is not what I am telling my spouse... vent vent... I am going to be polite... but demand respectfully the respect I DESERVE!!! Let me repeat, I DESERVE.<p>THose of you who have seen my weak, whiny emotionally abused posts are about to see a new me... I thought to draw back I was going to be plan bing, well NO. Plan A can have it's limits...<p>My plan a was doing things my S's way even when it disrespected me and our kids... this meant.. going to bars and playing darts and feeding his drinking problem... it meant... not talking about our problems... well I can understand this to a certain degree... but my plan a is not going to involve no talk... it is going to involve asking for commitment, and be ing respectful, asking for reconciliation when he asks me to see him, etc... If he does not want to REALLY work on our marriage... I do not want to deal with him... I thought this was plan b... evidently according to my session today, it is not.<p>I admit my situation is even more disrespectful to me since my h is addicted to alcohol and a whor_ not that he is not acting like one himself...<p>ANYWAY... I do not need a husband to mother look after or take care of... today my eyes opened.. there is a world out there of available men, who will not treat me like this, and would never think of doing this... why should I ever think of accepting this.????<p>I wonder where anyone would get the idea to let their spouse sleep with another person and still go and sleep with them or date them... NOT ME ANYMORE... well- I did not have this idea either... but... I just am sooo sick of this crap... I saw him when it was off with her, and then it was on... and then we had a blow up... we again talked about things,... resumed some talks/ dates, and nights together... then contact resumed again after contact broke... and then again contact resumed after contact broke... MY H has began to be honest/// sometimes about his affair... whatever you want to call it.. but no more will I take any form of contact... and this does not have to be plan b??? does that make sense.. it does to me..<p>I think the merry go round of lover v. spouse is pathetic... and no form of recovery- IT IS HUMILIATION... no wonder some of us feel so bad.... <p>I guess when they start to come our way... and then turn back is the worst.... the situation just puts us there.<p>Today, I decided I will walk with dignity through the rest of this thing, whether I walk away with or without him... !! That makes me much happier!<p>Hugs, HONEY
[img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

want to add, even though this is embarassing.. that I thought one way to win my S with high sex needs back was by filling that need for him... well, it is not respectful of me to myself to fill that need, wehn I have NO INDICATION That he is working on our M. I have had some , mind you, but not enough for me... He will need to see, what life without wife and no more sf from his old reliable is...<p>I do feel bad that I did this to me... I hate it... and even for a while... I thought... oh my H has such high sf needs... boo hoo... I wasn't meeting them.. (because I refused to have sf with a drunk... and also because I did not even talk to him when he drank..detachment... and ...I had smalll childresn... and a back injury...) Ok, well I felt this quilt he gave to me... well you have to know how to keep your man... HOW DARE he say this to me????????? VENT---<p>Well, I tried his way, and it mad e me feel like a 2 dollar whore.......<p>Anyway...I hope most of you do not have the sf problem I do...I posted about it, and got mixed fdback... do it if it is a need of his... don't because he treats you wrong, etc etc...<p>Sadly, it was confusing to me... since my H is nicer to me if he gets the sex needs met... right guys? At least that is what he told me... men need it... it is pphysical... well I thought... rather it be me that OW... but NOT BOTH...!! No thanks diseases... fungus mungus...<p>NO WAY!<p>ANyway... not only in that way.. but being always available to someone who is not there for you.<p>As my Therapist put it today... You are calling him and offering him a good life... and he does not want it... let him suffer then... <p>He does not want faithful wife trying to save M, then let him have his real $2 whore... ya know!<p>FEEDBack and comments, and advise is very much welcomed... it is going to be very hard for me to stop calling him and trying to convince him... or get him to do the right thing... BUT then again, much better for him to come to me...<p>Tired of being the one who initiates all contact...!! Even though he sees me... hey I would rather date someone new than do this to myself...<p>And I am OK all by myself!!<p>Thanks for reading any of you who have made it this far! I appreciate it. <p>
thanks, HONEY [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img]

bump for feedback.. I will read the thread on plan a misapplication to go with this and my thoughts on this!<p>THANKS guys! NEw revelation to me! HONEY

honey,<p>This is my 2¢ ... No LB is not part fo plan A, you have to do no LB in plan A. Plan A is very narrow focus on you to resolve H's issues in marriage about you. Doesn't say anything about giving H a blank check, you need to set boundry in M.<p>The more you could let go of H the easier for you to do plan A. The balance is shifting.<p>Rather than "punish H" in which could back fire why not use Venusian's lady tricks ?. String your H and see how he reacts ... good boy get a reward and put the cheese higher ... bad behavior doesn't get the cheese [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>It is true on the surface it looks like a lot of BS is a doormat or an enabler ... It is not the case.<p>I know she comingle household $ for her to pay rent w/ OM to stay out there but I let it happens. She comes and goes as she wish and I do not even chasing or LB on her. Why ?. It is part of plan A ... she complaint about I am too controlling on $ and I do not love her at all. I shook her beleive slowly, she knows I know she uses the $ ... but let her. I told her that I love her and let her go and wait ... if she is not back she is not mine to begin with, if she is back there is no guarantee I will be here forever. Now she is scratching her head on definition of love ... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>I told my WW with no demand, and no judgement that she should not bring my 2 D near OM otherwise she will see a beserk/loco H and heading to nasty Dv. It is not a demand ... she is in control and it is not judgement ... it is not happen yet and only "if". I start with by the way W, ...<p>My point is everyone's issues in M are different and need a different solution. Boundry could be set and it might and it might not be an LB, depends on how you put it to WS and if that is a repeat offense in the past. Learn how to speak fogesse.<p>[ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

Plan A is for life, for yourself, to be the best person you can be. "No LBs" is also for life, to anyone you love.<p>And Schurt, it was June Cleaver on Leave It To Beaver. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>WAT

Hi Honey,<p> You sound really strong.....I think you are "getting it"....There really is a fine line in Plan A and I know it's hard to maintain your dignity. I walked that line and to this day get mad at myself for trying to please my WH too much during the affair.<p>When I finally had enough is when my H came around.....I think Plan A is supposed to be about not reacting to the anger and going off the deep end....definitely not being a doormat......<p>I'm glad you are getting stronger....LU

I am glad that you are listening to your counselor. Go back and read the posts by Bramblerose, others and me. This is exactly what we have been telling you.<p>And even if you do as your counselor says, you will feel like a doormat at times. Just because you are being respectful to a man to is disrespecting you. That is where the Plan A ‘doormat’ thing comes into play.<p>Yes there are people here on MB who are putting up with far more then they should in Plan A. It is their issue and they are slowly learning to be more assertive of their need to be treated respectfully, as you are.<p>I hope this works for you.

thanks - I apreciate it zorweb and bramble rose, I know that is what you were saying... WHY Did I think plan A meant pleasing him and meeting his EN's? Is that written somewhere...??? i was trying to please him, and doing whatever he wanted.. thinking OH THAT will bring him back... guess I wasn't doing what HE wanted.. so that is why...he left... WRONG... he left becuase of his own STUFF.. his problems... he cheated becuase of who he is... NO i do not respect a man who cheated, and might again... NO that is not what I want back... I want the H I married, perhaps he is gone, drowned for good in alcohol, I do not know... BUt I do not want to live with an alcoholic jerking mwe around... and me going bezerk... trying to be whatever he wants n o matter how low it goes...<p>THanks, HONEY

honey,<p>Borrowing rev & Torizo's term .... you are enlighten ... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . Sometime it look like you have to be a doormat if that is what you are working on your plan A. But you do it for you not him !!!. Nope it is not written anywhere.

Honey, you go girl. Honey,you sound very intellegent, very honest, and very beautiful. You are strong and you can do this. You need to use the velvet glove with a iron fist. Trust me I wish that iron fist would hit my H over the head. Don't give in to your H over the sex. You don't deserve the disrespect. You are better than that and don't deserve to be used by your husband or anyone who gets put in a better mood by that. Keep your head up high and say " I can get through this and I will get through this and be a better person for how I got through it."<p>PS. Worthatry: Oh, well June Cleaver. Telling your age??? Sorry different generation. At least I remembered "Leave it to Beaver."

Actually there is something written by Dr. Harley somewhere that when a person is in Plan A they have no boundaries. He also said that we are supposed to figure out what our spouse’s EN’s are and start meeting them with no love busters. But the difference is that nowhere does Dr. Harely say that the spouse who is doing the Plan A is to let themselves be abused and used. So does he mean ‘no boundaries’? I think he does, up to the point where a person is being emotionally or physically injured. And that’s where you have been honey… <p>I think you understand it better now. You can meet your H’s needs for conversation, etc as long as he is not hurting you when you are with him.<p> For example, you can go out to dinner with your husband. But during that dinner you should not accept him putting you down, mentioning the OW, or acting belligerent in any way. And then after you should not be meeting his SF. The reason is that this will hurt you too much emotionally and there is a potential of you catching STD’s. Does this make sense?

Yes, thanks for feedbac k/.... still trying to be plan aer.. as much as I can.. he just abused me on the phone and I got off... my urge was to call him back and get him to be more rrational and work this out... well, he is not into that... and truth is if I start to ignore him the guilt will eat him more than anything for his bad beahvior.. kind of like redhat sd.. he has been bad.. so now I stay away- if he is good, maybe I can reward that as venus does...<p>right? But the sf is out, becuase of the situation for now... tired of being jrked around, my h bragged he has not had sf with ow.. fow now.. she only came over and listened to him play guitar... huh...<p>
OH, that sounds ok with me....!!J!LKJ!KLJIOu AGGGH! [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

OK Honey you done good... <p>Now for another stategy....<p>" tired of being jrked around, my h bragged he has not had sf with ow.. fow now.. she only came over and listened to him play guitar... huh..."<p>YOu do not want to ever hear about her again. Tell him that. The next time he mentions her..in the sweetest, most gracious manner you can pull together say "H, hearing you speak of her hurts me more then you can imagine. I do not want to ever again her about her. If you do bring her up is will simply leave, hang up, or in some other way stop our interaction." Then change the subject to something light.. like training your dog or what ever floats your boat.<p>From that time on.. if he brings her up, just say "H, I told you that I do not want to discuss her. Bye now." and hang up (do not slam the phone down.)

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by zorweb:
<strong> The next time he mentions her..in the sweetest, most gracious manner you can pull together say "H, hearing you speak of her hurts me more then you can imagine. I do not want to ever again her about her. If you do bring her up is will simply leave, hang up, or in some other way stop our interaction." Then change the subject to something light.. like training your dog or what ever floats your boat.<p>From that time on.. if he brings her up, just say "H, I told you that I do not want to discuss her. Bye now." and hang up (do not slam the phone down.)</strong><hr></blockquote><p>This is absolutely perfect, Z! Honey, practice this, rehearse it, do whatever you can to engrave it in your brain so that it will just be automatic each and every time.<p>As I look back, I see so many times when I wish I would have stood up for myself more. I did on D-day--when he balked when I asked the OW's name, I got up, said "Let me know when you've decided to protect me rather than her." and walked to the other end of the house to take my shower and go about my business. I simply was not going to have any more conversation with him until he decided to be appropriate.<p>I don't know what happened after that. I guess I got sucked in with all the sweet talk and stuff, and now it's taken me this long to get back to the strength level I was at back then. It all seems so clear to me now. Maybe *I* was in a fog! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

tHANKS, wELL I did say... do not want to hear about her... and she should be out of your life completely, or we cannot work on marriage.<p>This seems to drive a wedge between the little growth we have had...<p>SO, will try the nicer approach next time.<p>YES< I cannot hear about her anymore... do not need to, do not want to... <p>I appreciate the CLEAR instructions, you think I would realize this... but at this point having it spelled out in simple clear insutructions... helps a lot.
I will practice for the next time I hear... (sickly I almost wanted to ask more details... what would that do for me... drive me into more insanity??? YES, absolutely),<p>
thanks, HONEY

One more time guys, THANK YOU again! Have a wonderful day! HONEY

honey,<p>Of course you want to ask more questions. It's like watching a train wreck. Cann't keep your eyes off it. But what good does that do?