Why is this seeming like the worst month yet of our recovery? It's been seven months, and while I'm not getting any better, my husband is becoming less patient with me. I'm still crying almost daily and he's getting annoyed and "frustrated," his word for angry.
He has said he will tell me more about how he feels, but he doesn't, or can't. Says I "debate" and he won't put up with that. So I talk and talk, and gaze at him for long silences, waiting for him to say something. Then I say "Honey, how do you feel about what I've just said?" and he usually just says "I don't know." or "I don't know what you want me to say." While finally being a little bit honest with me today, he seemed almost triumphant when he said that I'll never understand him. That makes me think our marriage is almost sure to fail.<p>I feel like asking him to leave. He is so unwilling and unable to tell me anything, including how it was that I LB'ed him prior to his affair, that I hold out little hope for this marriage. He can't talk to me because he thinks I'll twist his words and out-talk him. I'm afraid to stop talking for fear that he'll win every argument we have and make me nothing. He wants us to "work as a team," but I'm afraid can only do this by doing everything his way.<p>I've been wanting to find us a counselor, but the thought of messing with all that insurance garbage makes me feel defeated. We tried counseling with Steve, but weren't very good at making new appointments on a regular basis and H doesn't want to try that again.<p>I just feel hopeless about us, and so upset for our two precious children. They deserve married, happy parents, not this.<p>H has just left on a three day trip. I cried this afternoon before he left, and now I'm crying again. I just don't think this is going to work.<p>Rose Red

Rose Red,<p>Marriage requires work and it is hard work. However you could ask Steve assistant (Carrol ??) to give you a fix weekly schedule and work from there.<p>The road to recovery is a narrow path, you need a professional MB help. Don't let it linger. You are in danger of loosing it.<p>Do you follow 4 rules of recovery or 4 gifts of love ?. Stale recovery is not a good sign. Go to MB seminar and do a weekend getaway also. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If H is not willing, you are in plan A not in recovery !!!!. So do a good plan A w/ Steve help then plan B him until he is willing to meet you half way.

I am sorry you are having a hard time, do the work of working with your insurance or calling mb... to at least get into individual counseling, are you open to anti depressants, it sounds that they might help... I was crying continually, but on the meds, effexor, I am diong much bettr... it was hard... dealing with the rejection and animosity... as you are too... what a H? He is not treating you fairly and you are not in recovery, recovery means working together to create a good marriage with the rules of recovery.. maybe the A is over, but you are not in good marriage- do not accept his treatment of you.. dont lb, but do something for you... get help- Look and read everything on this site, especially the counseling section, and how to find a good marriage counselor... you can likely find one on your insurance.. I would love to go to the harleys, but cannot afford it.. unless there is something I do not know.. <p>Redhat, what do you mean fix schedule.. is there a fix rate ? Or do you mean weekly appt.?<p>Hugs to you, HONEY

honey,<p>At the first few months I booked a weekly fix schedule for me and my WW. This way I don't need to find my WW and remind her of the appointment or worry that I will not have Steve's time. Too bad there is discount rate for it.

Try not to despair, RR, sometimes we just get to the end of our rope and prayer is the only recourse left. I pray that your H will miss you very much on his trip. While he is gone, pick yourself up and try to get yourself out of the slump. It's not the end of the world. I think he'll come around. Keep the faith! (Consider yourself hugged.)

Hi Rose,<p> Yikes, are we married to the same person? My H is /was exactly like yours. I did the same thing you are doing, crying, talking , trying to get to the bottom of it all. My H retreated big time. <p>Have you read any of the Divorcebusting books by Michelle Weiner-Davis? I had more success with alot of those techniques. YES, I wish my H would talk about it all, but it's not going to happen, he is not a talker and retreats....this does NOT mean they don't want to make it work and recover.I can tell by his attitude he wants to be here and I still wish I knew "why" this all happened.<p>We are 3yrs into recovery and the only way to reach my H is by going "in the back door" as Michelle calls some of her techniques....the traditional "talk it out" method does NOT work with these guys.....Don't give up LU

Dear RR, I'm sorry you're feeling this way today. Don't know what to say about the crying. It's been 19 months for me and really just a few weeks since the DAILY episodes stopped. The meds did little in my case. Went through them all. Helped me think a little more clearly but I still cried. Sometimes, I believe, nature will just take her course and you have to let her. Tears of sorrow have a differrent chemical make-up than tears of joy, so while we are crying, we really ARE "getting it all out".<p>I have a few suggestions about the communication issue. One, maybe he needs a break from it. Are you trying to accomplish a discussion a day? It might be too much for him, emotionally. Sounds like it's a lot for you, too. <p>Tell him you're taking a break from it. Tell him you need time to organize your thoughts and figure things out and you'd just as soon coast through the day and make a date to talk things out in the future. And then don't forget to follow through. Set aside time. Make sure it's after the kids are in bed, or farm them out to family/friends for sleepovers and take the whole evening. This sets a more controled environment for discussion. And make sure that when he says "you'll never understand" your reply is "maybe not but give me the opportunity to try". <p>If those questions and comments are simply overwhelming your brain, write them down. I made lists. LOOOOoooooong lists, of questions about all of the OW (there were plenty!), questions about his feelings, comments about my feelings. I would lock myself up in the bathroom, turn the fan on, smoke a cigarette (big no-no in my house), weep and write. The kids never saw it, he never saw it. I appeared more controlled than I really was. And I got it all out of my system. <p>Hah! He though he got the worst of it in our conversations. Not a clue to how much was REALLY going on. I either re-wrote notes later to share with him or looked over them and chose the most pertinent points. There was a lot of emotion on the page. Mostly, the word "WHY" written over and over and over again... sigh. Hope this helps. <p>Snow

I was going to suggest Weiner-Davis books, but see that Lu beat me to it... her latest book Divorce Remedy really spells it all out to you and gives some very clearly illustrated examples.<p>Cali

Divorce Remedy is a great book. There is a section in the book about doing a 180. Simply put is says that if something is not working, try just the opposite. If your H expects you to react in a certain way and it gets nothing but negative feedback from him when you do, just do the opposite. I thought that it would be much harder that it really is. You have to stop and think about is in the beginning, but as soon as you start to see results from doing something differest you would be amazed how much easier it gets. My WH is always a few minutes late for everything and would never call to explain. The world just waited for him so I thought. Well, I would get really mad and explain to him that it was rude to treat people like that. Here comes the 180. I started just smiling at him when he would come to meet me and he was late and give him a hug and a kiss and guess what, he started meeting me on time and if he was running late he calls. He is late for everything else, but not for me. <p>If you don't have the book, grab it and read it. It is really a fast read and pretty much follows the same theory as MB.<p>Hang in there. I will pray for you tonight at church.

Hi RR. I am sorry for this turn of events. I am not sure you need to beat yourself up and say you are not in recovery. Nor do I think it's a good idea to give up. You have come so far!! And, it sounds more like you guys have hit a rut and are stuck where you are.<p>That happens in recovery. You need to find a good MC, do the work (and it can be alot of work), it's worth it.<p>Do you think you may have been over-upset due to your H's upcoming trip that he is on now? <p>Why do you cry almost daily? Are you sad that your life is not the way you want it? Are you still having triggers? Do you feel somewhat to blame? Are you just sad your marriage is not where you expect it to be? Are you frustrated?<p>You should not be crying daily, especially in recovery, hun. Please go see an IC, paster, or someone to help you regain your strength and overcome your personal obstacles.<p>Sometimes you need to take a step back from MC and work on the individual in order to go forward...
You can't make your H do this, but you can do it for yourself.<p>Hugs,
HbH

Thank you so much, MB friends! Last night was such a bad evening, topping off a bad day and a bad month--I appreciate every kind word!<p>Maybe it was your prayers, and my prayers, but last night, the last thing before falling asleep, I suddenly thought to ask a particular person to pray for me and my marriage. I think God put that idea in my mind, because when I called her today, she was very supportive and questioned me about having a counselor. She had a Christian counselor to recommend, and several alternative suggestions as well. This woman, who is leading the Beth Moore bible study I go to, has also been through hard times herself with divorce. I felt renewed and encouraged. I called the counselor, and now have an individual appointment on Friday. I feel so much more hopeful. Plus my Bible study is Breaking Free, which I am hoping will also help me find peace with my situation.<p>redhat, you are right that lingering in recovery (or non-recovery) would be a big mistake and put our relationship at risk. We do need professional help, and I'm hopeful now that we can get it. As for working with Steve again, as much as I would like to, my husband just won't do it. Making MB counseling a deal-breaker is just not something I'm prepared to do, but if the in town counseling doesn't work out, I will suggest it again. Are we still in recovery? Yes, I think so, because we are both trying to work on the marriage, we both agree that healing our marriage is our top priority. But I do think we both have a major case of "recovery burn-out." We need a break.<p>honey, thanks for your concern! I'm already on anti-depressants and have been for years. They worked pretty well when my problem was generalized depression, but they are letting me down now even though my dosage has been increased. I told my psychiatrist that all I am sure the meds are doing is preventing me from being suicidal. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] You know, honey, I have read everything on this site and read Harley's books too, but frankly, I'm tired of orchestrating our recovery. My husband is not a reader, never even read the thesis I sweated blood over eight years ago, and he won't read the Harley books. (You know, conflict avoider type, says he'll read them, reads 5 pages and puts it aside.) I'm hoping that in counseling I can let the counselor carry the burden of leading us, instead of me trying to heal myself and teach him. The IC I'm seeing on Friday says she has some ideas about counselors who might suit us, and I hope this will work.<p>BtDt, you are so dear! And so right. When I saw how God answered my prayer so quickly, and I found myself with a counseling appointment, I felt loved and cared for as I haven't in a long time. On Tuesday in Bible study, we discussed how people will never be able to be everything we need, but that through their failures God will draw us to him as the only One who will never fail us. This just seemed written just for me. I feel a lot of peace today. Thanks so much for your prayers!<p>Lu, thanks for the book recommendation! I'm going to check this out. You have probably experienced what I have with a non-talking husband: the tendancy to imagine horrible thoughts to take the place of the thoughts he won't tell me about. Or, as I'm learning, to start thinking he doesn't have any emotions to be careful of, since he never mentions them to me. I'm beginning to believe I may have been hurtful to him without any idea how he felt, since after all, I can't read his mind. I don't know about you, but this isn't the marriage I envisioned as a little girl. But hey, it's the one I've got, and I'll be glad to read M W-D's book. (As soon as I get over the revulsion from the fact that Michelle is my husband's OW's name. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>Snowwhite, thank you for your careful and caring reply! Like you, the meds are doing little, but I like your idea of tears literally "getting it out." I'm so sorry you have been crying for so long--that is so demoralizing.<p>As for whether I'm trying to "accomplish" one talk a day, it really isn't like that. I'm just falling apart in his presence at least once a day. Many of our talks are simply me recounting over and over how crushed and broken-hearted I feel, while crying, of course. I know why he would be getting burned out and sick of this after seven months, but I have felt powerless to stop. I keep dwelling on the idea that I am worthless and devalued since he had the affair, which he can't stand to hear me say. And it isn't logical, so I understand why he is "frustrated," but no amount of logic is helping here. Back to why I need a counselor. I like your idea of a reply to his "You'll never understand." Thank you, Snow.<p>Cali, thanks! I'm sorry for the mess you're dealing with now. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Sinking Fast, I'm really going to get that book! So many people recommending it, and I never even heard it mentioned before last night--can't be a coincidence. It sounds a little like the premise of How the One of You Can Bring the Two of You Together, by Susan Page, a book I like. Thanks for your prayers--they seem to be working!<p>HbH, I think you're right: our situation is more like burn-out or a rut than that we aren't in recovery. Was I upset about my husband's trip? No more than usual--he's an airline pilot, so hubby gone is the story of my life. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>As for why I am so sad, I think it has to do with grief that my life has turned out this way. I am obsessed with a couple of ideas: 1) my marriage has been defiled and can never again be pure and lovely--at best it can be repaired, but it will never be valuable again. 2) my husband made me worthless by giving my place to some bimbo. I can't recover my worth--I'm forever humiliated. She will always be valuable and I will always be nothing, even though he's not with her anymore and wants to be married to me. He was willing to crush me in order to have her in his bed, so he gave her my value and I can't get it back. 3) By staying with him, I am dooming myself to a life with someone who treated me like dirt. At 36 I am sentenced to spend the rest of my life with someone to whom I am nothing. He can apologize until he is blue in the face (and he probably feels like he has), but he can never undo the disdain and unkindness in which he held me. The happy life I thought I had is completely over, to be replaced by some pathetic existance I never wanted. I don't feel like commiting suicide, but when these feelings are upon me, I think there is no reason to keep on living, since my life is miserable.<p>These thoughts have a nutty, obsessive ring even to me, but as I say, logic plays no part here. I hope the counselor can help--she's a Christian psychologist.<p>Thanks so much, everyone, for your help! I'll update this thread after my appointment on Friday, if anyone cares to check. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Rose Red

Rose Red,
sorry to hear how you are feeling. I haven't been on much lately....kind of feeling the same way--tho my marriage is pretty much over.<p>It takes time to get over an affair--I know, I am a vetern of these stupid ordeals. Somehow, you will have to focus on the future--because you will never be satisfied with the answers he can give you about the past. It is never enough.<p>I think eventually, you will find that it does get easier. The triggers will become less--and if he is truely remorseful (unlike my H) you have a good chance to build a great relationship. You have to let it go though. The dreams, the hopes, the ideal marriage you thought you had before is gone....but you have a chance to build a greater marriage that in the long run will be better because you know not to take it for granted--you know that it takes lots of loving care to preserve it. That is where good marriage building counseling would be beneficial. An enduring relationship that has made it through some of life's toughest ordeals--that is something. <p>I am kind of rambling...and have to get to bed...but I just wanted to let you know that I was thinking and praying for you. Remember, it takes time. Take Care Pat