We'll here I am again. For all who read below, you should know that I have introduced my W (ws)to MB and she will no doubt read your responses so input after this could be helpful for each of us. The short story....d-day one was early October. I discovered my W was having an A with one of my best friends. I was devaststed obviously. I have done alot of soul searching a-la MB and believe that I discovered who I need to be, and I accept the role I have played in the deterioration of our marriage. I have done my best to change myself permanently. I think I have done pretty well, even my W has said that I have changed quite a bit. In the past 3.5 months I really thought we were making progress. If you read other posts we have had several days where we have laughed and played together both with the kids and with each other. We have had days where the affection and love we showed each other felt so "right." Just this past Sunday, 10 days ago we had a great day and her exact words were "we CAN work this out, can't we." I went to bed that evening feeling better that I had in months.<p>Page 2....
Yesterday, d-day 2....I was made aware of an e-mail sent from her to him closing with the words "you are the love of my life." ......THUMP......After the confrontation, she admitted they have still been in regular communication via phone and e-mail and even had lunch together despite the fact that she adamantly denied she had been in communicaion with him as lately as last Thursday. The scabs that had started forming in October were ripped off my wounds and again I feel as if I am bleeding to death. All the energy, all the effort, all the hope....for nill. <p>Her side......their communication has not been the same as it was before Oct. They just "talk" despite her e-mail last Friday to him proclaims him as "the love of her life." She says that there has been no sex. Am I suppose to feel better about that? She suggests that what I discovered this second d-day is not as bad. We'll, it sure feels a lot worse. <p>When I ask her if she wants to work on this, her response is always "I don't know" or "yes, I think so." As I said earlier, just 6 days before she had sent this e-mail it seemed as if she was trying to convince me we could work through this. When we talked about her having to completely sever all contact with him she never says she will, she only says "it will be hard" and she frequently questions why she can't just "give up her feelings for him." Even with all the positive parts of the last four months and the several times she has said she loves me last night she said that she love's me but I is not in love with me. As painfull as it is for me, I have tried to be there for her because I can imagine how difficult it is for her. The relationship she is in provides a comfort factor, one in which the two of them can console each other in a sea of turmoil that surrounds them. She is probably correct when she says that no one but the two of them understand what they are going through. I know it is difficult for her...she resents the fact that it many people including most of our closest friends have extended a tremendous amount of support to me and his BS and little towards them. So, unfortunately she has little support, but like I said I want to be there for her. <p>My story.......yestday's confrontation was followed by a hours of "i'm sorry's", hugs, and affection. It felt so good to be on the receiving end for a change. The same response I received at the beginning of October. After conversation she knows that if we do want to make "us" work she can't ever talk to him. She even agrees that the last 3.5 months have been a lot better for both of us. All this despite her staying in communication with him. I only wonder how much better they could have been I they were not in communication. So now, the morning after, she has already called me four or five times. Not even having anything to say, just wanting to talk all be it briefly since we are both at work. So what does this all mean? Where do we go? How can I keep trying so hard....just to get kicked again in another 3.5 months. How can I not try since I love her more than anything. How can I not try for the sake of our 4 year old daughter and 1 1/5 year old son. What do I do? It hurts so bad to keep trying like this....to be treated like this. Her question is very simple, she keeps asking me this so I will put it on this post. Is what she is feeling "normal." Why can't she just stop talking to him. Is it normal to have such a hard time giving up the feelings she has for him. Daggars, every question stabs me like a daggar. I have always thought of myself as a strong person. I feel myself buckling. Again, your responses will most likely be read by both my W (ws) and me so all help is greatly appreciated.<p>KAP

Hi KAP, and hello to Mrs. KAP too. This place is great for getting answers to the questions you ask.<p>There's a lot of good in your situation, KAP. I know you probably are having a hard time seeing it through the emotion, but I think you have an excellent chance of recovery if you (and Mrs. KAP) do the right things.<p>The first thing I'd suggest is to read the other info on this web site. Somebody will come along and post a link or two or three I'm sure, and if they don't I'll do it myself. There are some very insiteful articles here that will cover almost every question you can think of - and some that you'd never dream up on your own.<p>Here are my suggestions in response to your specific questions:<p>KAP's question: "What do I do?"<p>

• Implement Plan A immediately and perfectly
  Plan A is almost entirely about self-improvement. You need to identify and eliminate every Love Buster (LB) you can, starting with the ones that are most offensive to Mrs. KAP and conquering them completely as quickly as possible. You also need to identify each of Mrs. KAP's Emotional Needs (ENs) and find out from her how she expects to have those needs met. The more detail she can give you, the better off you will be in the long run. Many people have to guess what ENs those spouses want met. From what you've said in your post your W may cooperate.
• Read "Surviving An Affair"
  This is a great resource for both of you. A lot of the questions you raise here are covered in this book in a lot of detail.
• Read "His Needs, Her Needs"
  Also a great book with a lot of excellent information about eliminating LBs and meeting ENs. This should be required reading for every couple.

<p>Mrs. KAP's question: "Is it normal to have such a hard time giving up the feelings for him?"<p>Yep, it's normal. Very typical. It's also fundamentally necessary for recovery to begin. Lots of betrayed spouses are dealt a lot of pain because the betrayers have such a hard time giving up the other person. There have been countless betrayers that have come to this site asking for help and support because giving up their extramarital relationship is so hard. As hard as it is, it simply must be done in order for the marriage to recover. It's very simple, but extremely difficult. The books will help you see the reasoning behind the advice.<p>I'd also highly recommend to both of you that you set up counseling with the Harleys. The books will provide a solid foundation, but having a coach can make all the difference in the world.<p>Good luck.

I am in the early stages of what you're going through. My wifes A wasn't with someone I know but she did make out with a friend of mine, stopped it after a couple minutes and they never talked after. That was a double slap after learning of the affair and I think I took that harder than the 7 month A that followed. He is no longer a friend to me.<p>However they were breaking it off when I finally found out and pushed for it to stop (7 month A). She's still going through some withdrawal and I don't think she ever admitted to herself how much he meant to her. <p>I'll be honest with you that I told her if she can't be completely faithful with me while we give this long road to recovery a chance, I said I would walk away and I will. I've really been very good through this thing, I recognized my role in it from the very beginning.<p>Now I am at a point if I can't begin to trust her and start to rebuild then I am ready to move forward without her. We've agreed not to make any decisions yet but we have a review coming up when the lease on my apartment expires. Even now I consider cutting my losses but I love her so much and I think it can work out. But ONLY if she makes her effort, which I'm not 100% sure she will do. I have good and bad days.<p>Your wife is going to go through the withdrawal and it will be hard for her not to see the OM. The thing that she really needs to understand is that each time she gives in and contacts him, she has to begin healing all over again. She hurts you more than you can even put into words, believe me in that we understand one another perfectly. There's going to come a time when that pain will have helped kill what feelings you have left for her. I hope she comes to understand what a sacrifice you have made/are making for her. <p>Do the things you can to make yourself a better person. Also go into with the understanding that she might not be able to give this man up and that you might lose her. Draw a line somewhere, for your sanities sake. If she crosses it then you will have to let her go. Maybe she'll come to realize her mistake and do what she can to get YOU back. Maybe that's a pipe dream I have.<p>I hope you two can work things out and I hope these words have helped you. I'm only a little over a week into this mess so my tune could change over time.

As I read and re-read my post, when my W asks is this "normal", I guess my question becomes normal for what.......as a stage of recovery, as a step in seperation. I guess I just assumed she meant recovery. Any thoughts?

Not much action here other than SG and me. I hope we end up doing more good than harm! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>So, you're now asking what I think is a somewhat different question, and I think maybe what you'd like to know is whether or not it's considered acceptable for her to feel this way. Or maybe you mean something else entirely. If I've guessed wrong, correct me and I'll take another shot. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You'll find out from reading the books and this web site that an affair is often compared to an addiction to drugs or alcohol. When a drug addict stops taking drugs cold turkey, they go through what is called withdrawal. It's the same for a WS in an affair. They naturally want to get some more of what was giving them a high, which was the OP. Ideally the WS will stop seeing the OP cold turkey, the addiction will end after a time, the WS's love bank will be filled because you stop LBing and meet the WS's ENs, and you'll live happily ever after. The problem is that we don't live in an ideal world and even under the best of circumstances the WS and the BS both stumble. You originally began this thread because Mrs. KAP stumbled. She's human and she makes mistakes just like you or I or any other mere mortal.<p>So... is it normal? Given the circumstances you are both in, yes it's normal meaning that it's typical at this point. Is it acceptable? Well, the whole situation is pretty much intolerable, so no, it's not really acceptable but it's part of the reality you have to cope with just the same.<p>It's late so I'm going to end this reply. You two really do have a good chance at this, I hope you can make the best of it and recover.