To Redhat,
I am posting this in hopes that I can find some "light" at the end of the tunnel find out what is really good for me, my wife and our marriage.
I am 46 and have been marriaed 241/2yrs. with 3 children and a grandchild. I have developed a very strong friendship with a young woman at work over 3yrs ago. My wife knew then and was very uncomfortable for all concerned. It became apparent d-day(6/99) that we were becoming closer friends. The OP and I became very close emotionally and continued contact. My wife and I tried counselling briefly. I was steadfast that I remain a part of the OP's life. As time has progressed the relationship took a slower course and for a year there was contact but not a lot.(There are other circumstances.) In August of 2001 we resumed contact and it took off again. This time we entered into a more physical type of relationship. This continued until December of 2001 when things blew up several times at home and I spent several nights away from home. At this point I was introduced to the MB books and read "How to Survive an Affair" I felt that it had really opened my eyes and my attitude changed but only for a short time. My wife and I have stayed together but even though there has been little contact with the OP it still exsists. I am lost as to my feelings. This has gone along for a long time compared to most. My wife and I have had a decent marriage although we could have improved. I can't say thay I was unhappy and looking for something else. As time went on the relationship with the OP just got greater.
I need some direction. I have and we have been to extensive counselling over the past 3yrs and I'm still foggy. I want us all to have happy lives and go on. We all know this isn't easy. I'm looking for something to clear the fog one way or the other.<p>brw(gone2far46)<p> <p> [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

brw,<p>I am assuming OP is OW. Let me know if it is different, since you have another problem than your M to deal with.<p>Have you see theLordOfTheRing ?. I enjoyed it and I will see it again and again. I even have the huge promotional poster hanging on my office wall. The lure of A, is similiar to the lure of theOneRingThatRuleThemAll, only a few with strong heart and head could resist it. You have a weakness and linger but you should count your blessing that your W stand by you. Let me quote from Proverb 14:12-13 There is a way that seems right to man, but in the end it leads to death. Even in laughter the heart may ache and joy may end in greif. And then continues w/ Proverb 16:17 The highway of the upright avoids evil; he who guards his way guard his soul. <p>Your lost of feeling comes from numbness in your heart w/ lies after lies and living in A (EA/PA) for 3 years. It won't be easy to come back. You have to look inside you and hope w/ the grace of God and the love of your W you could pull yourself out of this.<p>You have read already SAA, you should have follows it to the t's. You have been warned that the road to recovery is very narrow path and one missteps could scars your M more than A did. Many people have gone through this path and happilly in recovery and have caring&loving M in their life. That is what many BS and many WS long for, a fullfilling M in their life. Get conseling but make sure that the conselor uses MB or get it right from the source, from MB. Go to MB seminars for couples, it will help you out.<p>Reread again SAA, then give to your wife a compensation. Write no contact letter to OP. Ask your W to help you out to protect your weakness. Move job or relocate if it needs to be. Change phone# to unlisted#, change email address and so on, give access to all means of communications to W. Get her to control your $, you just get pocket money. Account your time to your W, report any discrepency. Any accidental contact you have to report it to W. She deserves that and also he who own a woman heart own her body, soul and mind [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . Then give her the 4 gifts of love or the 4 rules of recovery. Care (fillin ENs), protections (POJA & no LB), time (min. weekly 15 hours of undivided attention) and honesty. Do it even you feel reluctant in the beginning, just do it. It will get easier after several try and become a habit.<p>Again as Harley pointed out as long as there is contact and dwell in withdrawal, you have not given your M a fair chance. Life is too short to be miserable and it is time for you to find a way home.<p>There won't be a lightening or stars lining up properly or sign that you are looking for. You walk into A without those signs. ALL the answer are here staring at you and you just have to do it. If you are Christian, ask for elderly or your pastor & prayer group to pray for you, your W and your M. Go back to HIS words for strength.<p>In the name of Jesus Christ and Holly spirit, I ask for you to be bless w/ strength and wisdom & your wife to continue to stand by you, as any noble wife would do. Amen.<p>[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

Redhat,
Thank you for your reply. To your first question the answer is no ,I haven't seen the movie and to your second question, yes it is the OW.
As for the religious aspect.... I confided in a close friend of both me and my wife at church at the very beginning of this. She is a very understanding and "Godly" person who is trained in matters like these and is going to school to become a pastor. I have prayed time and again for guidance for this situation. I want the "right" and the "best" thing to occur for all involved. My wife has gone through "pure hell" over this and is still beside me and for that I am grateful. Not many would have stayed the course. As for the OW....she is a person also and I feel one that deserves consideration, too. We developed a very close bond over the last several years. To even say what I said in the last sentence is extremely hurtful to my wife and I understand. I care about the OW but I know she knew what was going on wasn't kosher but we are all human. Many things that you would consider happening in most other A's didn't occur here but that doesn't absolve me of the things that did.
My wife are not "nipping at each others heels" and we do spend time together and enjoy it. All this has probably gotten us to talk more than in the past although the topic isn't always pleasant.
We both have read the books and talked about them a lot. We did the EN's questionaire and it wasn't all that surprising to either of us. Like I said, this isn't a bad marriage.
We may have to try the MB counselling since we have and especially me had alot of it the last 2&1/2yrs. Most of it was through a Pastoral Counselling service.
I have read some of the Bible verses you quote before and I "hear" them. I "see" the path suggested by MB's and understand it. I appreciate your help but I realize that "I" am the one who needs to see the light. Sometimes things just don't seem that easy.
Thanks,
brw [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

brw,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I want the "right" and the "best" thing to occur for all involved. My wife has gone through "pure hell" over this and is still beside me and for that I am grateful. Not many would have stayed the course. As for the OW....she is a person also and I feel one that deserves consideration, too. We developed a very close bond over the last several years. To even say what I said in the last sentence is extremely hurtful to my wife and I understand. I care about the OW but I know she knew what was going on wasn't kosher but we are all human. </strong><hr></blockquote>
You are talking foggese ... You know you are putting your W through hell as we speak now. You know you are also putting OW on the grill since her life is probably upside down and you won't let go. You, yourself, are the cause of this and still wanting "the best" ?. The best for whom ?. For what ?. Right now you put two life hanging w/ indecisions not to mention yours. You know that your continue contact create "staleness" in your M, draining LB$ of your W. You know that continue contact stop OW from intimate w/ anyone else. I hope you see the logic in here since the grace of God and the love from your wife doesn't bring you back. You know what is best. You give a chance to your M with MB principal, cut loose OW. Yes, it will hurt her and probably you too. But in the long run you free her from you so that she could seek her happiness else where. If you love your W you came back to her and compensate her, if you love OW you set her free. And for you, isn't this is the time for you to come back home and be true to yourself ?. Isn't that best for all ?.<p>Keep posting in here, there are many other MB'er will lurk and post to you too.

Redhat,
I am sitting here to reply and my wife has been right here also. As I read your reply I just turned to her and said " Here it is". Another straight forward, cut ot the chase answer. She said "What do you expect?. I don't know what to expect. Do I want a "pat on the back"? I don't think so.
Foggese? That's a good one! Must be MB lingo I haven't seen. You are right though and I realize that. I cannot tell you how GREAT my wife has always been to me. ALWAYS! Even as we sat here today and she was asking me some hard and I mean hard questions she doesn't come across as unloving but very angry and hurt. That's what I can't understand about all this is "Why did this happen and for what reason?" Am I making any sense here at all? Doesn't anyone else question like that?
My wife read last night on MB a response from another woman that she thought that she got more pain and suffering from plan A than if she would have gone to plan B. What is your take on that? What were your circumstances and how did you handle it? Did someone on here knock some sense into you? I suppose that I am too idealistic and hope the world somehow always makes things come out smoothly , we know that is a pipe dream.
Hearing my own words back at me is always an eye opener. I don't know that I have much time left to get it right.
brw [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img]

Mrs Brw,<p>Here is something for you to read. I am the BS in my relationship and the anger and hurt you feel is quite common. The fact that your H is here trying to understand and get help is a big step. I urge you to take this into consideration. Unless you have been in a situation (like mine or even others) where the WS is not willing to put as much effort as your H, you may not appreciate your H's efforts as much. <p>I wish my H would be able to come here and post. I personally have been posting here for a little over 1 year (1 yr this month) and I must say it has helped me tremendousy. I was not able to have regular sessions with a counselor but the support here is great. <p>Now for the piece that helped me: <p> http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002494.html <p>Please read up here as much as you can. You can start with the basic concepts. Reading the book his needs/her needs by Dr. Harley is an eye opener. Taking the emotional needs questionnaire is another tool that will be useful. <p>You seem to have an H that is able to speak (a real feat for a man - LOL [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ) Use that to your marriage's advantage, use it for your family's advantage & use it for both your personal advantage. <p>Take Care,
L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by brw:
<strong>.. I cannot tell you how GREAT my wife has always been to me. ALWAYS! Even as we sat here today and she was asking me some hard and I mean hard questions she doesn't come across as unloving but very angry and hurt. That's what I can't understand about all this is "Why did this happen and for what reason?" Am I making any sense here at all? Doesn't anyone else question like that?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Another good reason to let OW go. Let her asks the detail questions, over and over ... she needs to heal herself. Answer it thruthfully, the more you "hide" or give unsatisfactory answer (i.e hiding the truth), the angrier she gets.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>My wife read last night on MB a response from another woman that she thought that she got more pain and suffering from plan A than if she would have gone to plan B. What is your take on that? What were your circumstances and how did you handle it? Did someone on here knock some sense into you? I suppose that I am too idealistic and hope the world somehow always makes things come out smoothly , we know that is a pipe dream.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I might agree with her in the sense of pain from plan A, some of us missed apply plan A. However I disagree with going to plan B. You better make sure you are ready to be safe harbor for your SO before going to plan A, otherwise you just push your SO to OP. Follow Torizo saga, it is very classic not to plan B even it looks there is no hope. My situation, you could check my profile ... In short my wife is unhappy and I am being pick as the source of it. All sacrifices that we decided together becomes "acts of unloving H". Now, as part of plan A, I have to show her how deep is my love to her. I set her free yet I told her that I am not here forever, then I am working on my issues. My issues are angry outburst (provoked by her unhappiness), affections (learn how to express it outward), too goal oriented. I am there already but my WS needs convincing, I am just hanging here until my finacial mess is straighten out. Plan B will be brutal for her, I am planning it slowly and carefully. No one knock my senses here, I attracted to MB principal while searching Dv sites. I am sold and I called MB the next day. However I seek others view once in awhile to knock my senses.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Hearing my own words back at me is always an eye opener. I don't know that I have much time left to get it right.
brw [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote>
Is there any deadline ?. Did your W give you ultimatum already ?.<p>Go back and read my first reply to you to compensate your W. Follow SAA.<p>[ January 26, 2002: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

brw,<p>That you were both sitting there together, reading the posts on MB is a wonderful thing! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>That openess, honesty, and the fact that you are both obviously working together on this puts you two so far ahead of the curve compared to many who post here--you have a great chance of building a beautiful partnership together.<p>I don't have any specific advice other than to practice what you learn here. It can and does work, especially with 100% participation from both of you. I was the BS a year ago, and MB brought us through! You can do it!

To Orchid: Thanks for the encouragement for my wife. She says that it may be more encouraging for me .(LOL) She went to the suggested site you gave and will keep it in mind. She has suffered greatly and even though I have tried I still am struggling for answers. It has been a LONG HARD ROAD to get here. We have read books, watched tv programs, gone to counseling and so forth over the last 3 yrs. MB's I hope will be the window that helps let in the light.
Thanks, Mr.& Mrs. BRW [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

RustyZ,
Thanks for jumping in! It helps to know that success is possible. As for being ahead of the curve.....maybe but things are still very difficult after being involved in this for so long.(3yrs) That in it's self is probably more than most which makes it tougher. We are sitting here together right now.
We appreciate the support.
M&Ms BRW [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

RedHat,
I started reading SAA again today. The first time I read it 6weeks ago it really hit a nerve and things evened out for a week or so and my attitude changed. I somehow felt relieved that this wasn't just happening to me but it also was a little disheartening to see the words that I've said in print that so many others had also used. The book's message hit me again today. I'm wondering how long it will take to sink in or whether I need to carry it with me all the time as a reminder.
Deadline or ultimatium? Yes and no. back at the end of Nov/01 my wife said that we had until Christmas to get right but shortly thereafter things really got nasty. It was then we were introduced to MB's and I read SAA. That was an eye opener and things were very good for a week or so then downhill we slid but we got through the holiday and things were getting better again. Then there have been a couple contacts with the OW since then and things were sliding again. We seem to go "off & on" from week to week sometimes. It basically boils down to how hard I try to fight myself as to how things should go and if i have any contact. This week has been pretty trying at best for our relationship.
It sounds as if you and your W are right in the middle of a mess that doesn't sound good. Unfortuately we all have "issues" we need to deal with and getting that accomplished is a BIG task.
I don't know how your marriage has gone before now or what lite the fire for your problems. It seems that you have had a long ordeal, also.
I will check out the link you provided. I find some comfort in hearing others stories and how they dealt with it good or bad.
BRW [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

brw,<p>A quick addition, every time there is a contact, your withdrawal start from ZERO again. That's why MB really try to severe contact.<p>Hi, mrs. brw ... welcome and hope you & your H will adopt MB. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ January 27, 2002: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>