180 #1. Don't call H during the day unless absolutely necessary.
This is going very well. It is not as difficult as I thought it would be. <p>180 #2. Don't always answer cell phone.
A little more difficult; but has been doable. <p>180 #3. Be unexpectedly late. Don't call to announce why you are late or where you are. When H calls about whereabouts... don't answer cell phone.
Happened last night by accident. I was chatting w/ coworker and didn't notice the time. When H called, the phone was too far away and I didn't make it to the phone in time to answer it. He didn't ask why or where when I got home, so I didn't offer. <p>180 #4. When H is away for a business trip, seem unconcerned.
He is gone all weekend at a conference. Not only was I unconcerned, but I was excited for him to have the chance to be away. <p>180 #5. While H is away for business trip, let him call you and kids.
Okay... I called once... just to tell him that I was excited he was having a chance to be away [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>TA in CA<p>[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: TryingAgain ]</p>

TryingAgain,<p>Venusian Lady, drives your H crazy ... LOL !!! and I married to one [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] . It works if your H have no issues of your love to begin with. Shaky if affection and love is in question. I am experimenting w/ Martian version of it. Keep us updated.

Cali, I'm sorry to be harsh. All this is going to do is frustrate, confuse and hurt you some more. Your H is beyond this simple 180 stuff. This is just more of the same stuff you did as you initially got stronger in Plan A. What's going to make him have any different response this time? You're just going to make him angry, he'll see it as manipulative and controlling as long as you do this while you're still living in the same house together. It's 180 and being separated that will make the difference.

redhat and mthrr...<p>H called OW on way to conference... how do I know? He called me to tell me that he's no longer going to call the trifling B*T*H.<p>I know my H... if I leave or force him to leave he will 'erase' me... yeah... erasure is much harder w/ children... but I know my H... he lives in the same city w/ his own parents and contacts them very infrequently...<p>But... I will make a concession... I will make an appointment w/ the Harleys and I will discuss w/ my IC (who I am seeing once per week).<p>I know the ways I failed my husband... and I know the ways I didn't. I know how he has failed me and how he hasn't. I am no longer thinking for him, or rescuing him... he has to come to me and ask me like an adult... no more anticipating his needs... (another 180).<p>I have prayed over this much... more than I have prayed over anything... I have been very quiet and listened... my gut and my heart do not say separate yet... but note that I comprehend that it is a possibility...<p>TA in CA

oops...double post. sorry.<p>[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: TryingAgain ]</p>

Cali I just want you to know that I just want the hurting to stop for you. I am not trying to be mean or condescending at all.<p>You say your H will just erase you. What would happen if he had to deal with you erasing HIM? How, in the long run, is the pattern he has of "erasing" people ever going to change?<p>You THINK he will erase you. Many many people here are terrified of WS just walking away at the mere whisper of Plan B, but have you noticed that rarely happens? You might just be really surprised what he does.<p>He's not going to call OW but he still doesn't want to work on the marriage. Leaves you in pretty much the same place. He's been really good at throwing out crumbs for almost a year now when you show more strength and independence. I bet my bottom dollar that he'd throw out the whole meal and dessert too in a few months if you just said enough is enough.

You do not know your H. You have absolutely NO idea if he would erase you or not.<p>That is a humongous, triple-super duper disrespectful judgement.<p>YOU ARE AFRAID he will erase you.<p>Hate for mthr and me to double-team you like this, but she is 100% right.<p>When you see your IC, I would recommend the first thing you talk about is why YOU can't let go and what it is that keeps you so afraid that you are willing to continue living in this hell-hole.<p><<<<hugs>>>> You know I love ya' Cali.
HbH

'cause it's not always a H*ll hole...the only time we have 'words' is when I PUSH HIM.... OTHERWISE IT IS NICE... <p>I'm good at giving advice... but I don't always take my own...<p>The times when H strikes out at me (metaphor) is when I have pushed him into a corner w/ my words... most of the time he is agreeing to something I have said... Lexxxy pointed this out to me in the other thread... but I had already figured it out...<p>When I leave H alone... to think... to figure it out on his own... he ends up coming to me...<p>Guys... I am getting it... God IS IN CHARGE... and I am trusting in HIM for the impossible... <p>and H is meeting some of my ENs and I am meeting some of his... and I LB very little nowadays...<p>I guess I need to add another 180...<p>#6... don't put words in H's mouth... don't 'think' for him... let H come to his own determinations...

Okay. I am not there, so I will take your word for it.<p>So, what I read here is that as long as you ignore the fact that your H is in an affair, forget that he is totally insensitive and being extremely disrespectful to you, and don't think about the pain you are in - then your life is "nice". <p>Not wonderful, not great, not even good, just nice... To me, that would be a hell-hole, which is where that statement came from, but I accept that it is not for you (so I humbly retract the hell-hole quote from above and insert "nice"). <p>
One last question: If your life is so great (even part of the time), why do you seem so unhappy?<p>When is your IC appointment? I am curious to hear what they suggest for you...<p>I have been in IC for nearly 6 months now. If you had asked me what my life was like before my H's affair, I would have said "nice". <p>Personally, I should have never settled for nice, and that is part of the reason my H had his affair to begin with. I was not strong enough to stand up for myself at that time. My H and I were in a 100% co-dependent relationship where we both thought it was "nice". Eventually, my H turned to women to meet his EN's and break out of the rut. I probably never would have done anything, just always settled for nice.<p>If either me or my H had stood up for ourselves years ago, we could have avoided this whole thing.<p>But not anymore. Now, I want it all and I will not settle for having a nice life again. I want a wonderful life, a great life, a life I want to live everyday. And my H has nothing to do with it...<p>I hope you see where I am going with this. I think you set your sites too low. You said in an earlier post when you were writing your letter to efft, that "you want it all". <p>Did you mean it?<p>HbH

well, everyone else can slap me if I'm wrong, but what I'm reading is that you are actually doing a good plan A, Cali. No LB's. Steve says this is the most important part. So, I am agreeing that perhaps things are going to change for you now, if you can keep this up for several weeks. No LB's. Dont' push, don't "need" him, no arguing, no discussions of your needs, no expectations.... you know the LB's. I would say that several weeks on the 180 plan you are foillowing right now, and then see how it's going. That's the only way H will truly see the changes you've made. "self-control" Cali... no preachin, teachin, judging, temper-tantrums... etc. <p>When I look back to the 2 times H came home, I had a VERY hard time controlling those things. He would drag me into conversations in which I couldn't help LB'ing. Like he was intentionally trying to make me LB. I wonder where we'd be if I truly could've controlled my tongue better. I dunno. I can't wonder what-if.<p>So anyway, you're showing tremendous strength, and putting H's needs ahead of yours, and self-control. Will you give us permission to slap you in the next few weeks if you stray from this path and lose sight of what it is you're working on? Can we bring up this thread and make you re-read it often? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I guess what I'm saying is, if this is the path you want to take, DO IT. Not for a day or for a weekend or for a week. Do it for a few weeks. It may get the results, especially if this is where you think God is leading you. The worst that can happen - and PLEASE prepare yourself for this - is that it WON'T work. H may still remain in his child role, still foggy, still blaming you for everything, blah blah blah. So don't let that surprise you if it happens. We won't say "I told you so". So if the worse happens... if it doesn't work - you really haven't lost anything. You're getting strong, giving it everything, and can look back knowing that you tried.<p>Just my thoughts.... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ January 27, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

YES!!!<p>I am so much 'getting' plan A... so much getting that plan A is about ME and my changes!!! NOT to focus on H or his affair... learning to detach and NOT be so dependent emotionally on H... but just to enjoy who he is and share ideas w/ him... <p>Yes, I am seeing IC once per week... I've only seen her once for myself... so we haven't gotten into a 'plan' yet...<p>My marriage NOW is MUCH NICER THAN BEFORE A... I can't imagine what it would be like if he were on board all the way...<p>We work together better, he does more around the house (weird, 'cause I don't ask him to do anything! or 'expect' him to do anything), he plans things for us to do.... I don't know it is just different...<p>btw... H is saying things that help me believe he is seeing OW for her REAL self... see "I am incredibly calm" post...<p>Cali