WEll... Until this thread I hadn't visited said site... <p>but now I have to admit that I have been lurk the last few days and actually posted yesterday...<p>It's been interesting figuring out which OWs are here under 'different' names... they ought switch some details to their stories if they really want to remain anonymous...<p>FD... I also laughed out loud... so true... so true...<p>I've been personally gratified by a couple of threads over there... posted to one where they lament how MM is staying w/wife and are wondering if he 'lied' to them or is just a chicken who can't stand up for 'true' love.... <p>
And z... near as I can tell there is only ONE forum where 'we' would be 'welcomed'... the General forum... the rest seem to be for OW/OM only... my personal forum favorite is 'endings.'<p>Cali

TTF....<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>puts down any and every WS that posts and that isn't absolutely hating life and themselves. Is self-hate really the expected healthy LONG-TERM WS response? Is this really all you want from them? I hope not ::cringe:: <hr></blockquote><p>I can think of many WSs that are loved and welcomed here and I don't see that they have had to HATE LIFE OR THEMSELVES. I feel they have expressed remorse and stopped BLAMING their BS AND stopped DEFENDING what they did... Same w/ BSs... those that have recovered BEST have stopped BLAMING WS and also stopped DEFENDING what they did...<p>I think it is called learning to be empathetic.<p>Cali

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by peppermint:
<strong>FAIRYDUST!<p>This is one of those rare MB moments when I actually laughed out loud! I have never visited the mentioned site (I personally have had more contact with OWs than I EVER wanted), but you described it just as I imagine it to be!<p>I am SO glad you haven't lost your sense of humor! THANK YOU!<p>Peppermint</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Thanks. There was a time when I never would have thought I could laugh about this stuff, but as time has gone by it has gotten much easier!

Ducking for cover after this one.....<p>
At the risk of upsetting everyone here I'd like to throw in my 2 cents. I'm almost 14 months past DDAY and I can understand how my thoughts might upset some. My rage towards the OP was unbelievable to me (I bet you guys/gals can relate though) for the first 8 or 9 months. Much of it was misplaced because I let W get away with murder and blamed everything on OP. <p>I started reading and posting occasionaly over at gloryb a couple of months ago. I know I've made some friends over there, FinallyHappy and clarkie are a couple of them. I seem to stay away from all the boards except the ending boards. IMO most of the people posting on the general board and OM/OW only boards haven't hit the troubled waters yet. The endings board is a different story though and you can pretty much bet (98% of the time right?) that the posters on "OM/OW" and the "general" boards will end up on the endings board or in the ending situation. The common thread that the endings board and these boards share is betrayal. That's right. They are just as guilty of buying into the lies and manipulations that many of us BS's buy into. I'm not trying to bag on the WS here but they are at a weak point in there lives and many will do anything not to hurt either the BS or the OP when in fact that is all they are really doing.<p>Anyways, we both (BS and OP) seem to put our heads in the sand and refuse to really see what's in front of our face. It's a bad situation for all including the WS (if they have any empathy at all) because they end up hurting two people they care about.<p>
who<p>
BTW, I kinda have this theory that when the OP starts to visiting boards like MB the A is probably starting to fall apart. Just a thought.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Cali:
<strong>WEll<p>I've been personally gratified by a couple of threads over there... posted to one where they lament how MM is staying w/wife and are wondering if he 'lied' to them or is just a chicken who can't stand up for 'true' love.... <p>Cali</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Ah yes. I believe that would be article #16<p>16. Any MM who chooses his wife over his OW is "living a lie" and "not following his heart". The wives in these situations (pretty much without exception) are "burying their heads in the sand" and "in denial of the truth". Then usually something about pretending and not wanting to mess up their comfy little lives. Lots of talking in hackneyed cliches.

There is an extreme difference between those that have had affairs, are remorseful, and want to change and those that want to defend their infidelity. I know for darn well that the former of these people have never been torched. There have been those that come here in the midst of an affair, in a deep fog or withdrawal, and take the first step to ask for help. These are always welcomed here, as well. When it gets to the point when these folks are arguementative and it looks to be that their motive is only to stir up trouble, then it gets ugly. WS bashing, as you say.<p>I have always, always defended those WS who want to make a change in their lives. I know a lot of caring, wise people who post here do the same and work to offer advise and support. <p>THe OW in my case, one of them, posted here for a short while. I said nothing to reveal her identity. I wrote one post directly to her, and I worked hard to word it nicely. I wanted to here what she had to say. She said that she felt no remorse for what she did. THe post was on the topic of contacting OW about the affair, (which I had done) and she went on to say that from the OW perspective, it is more of a pain to see the MM happy with his family than it does to have the wife call you up and yell at you, so don't bother. Or something like that. I still did not reveal her identity. I told my husband that I did not appreciate her posting on MB, (because she expressed no remorse) and she stopped.<p>I don't even bother to bash on WS who are here to cause trouble--what's the point? Waste of time--I just think it's funny how touchy some people are and how they say they get flamed here, we are all a bunch of heartless, self-righteous, bitter people here to complain about our poor misguided spouses and the victims that get involved with them. Could it possibly be that the truth just hurts too much?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by zorweb:
<strong>……”Pain is pain, and all parties in an emr hurt...I find it sad that you refuse to recognise this.”<p>You are kidding right? The OP's pain is self inflected.. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well said zorweb, I could not agree with you MORE! This is right on...

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Cali:
<strong>TTF....<p> <p>I can think of many WSs that are loved and welcomed here and I don't see that they have had to HATE LIFE OR THEMSELVES. I feel they have expressed remorse and stopped BLAMING their BS AND stopped DEFENDING what they did... Same w/ BSs... those that have recovered BEST have stopped BLAMING WS and also stopped DEFENDING what they did...<p>I think it is called learning to be empathetic.<p>Cali</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well I'm not blaming BS or defending what I did...I just refuse to hate myself, that's all. It's too easy to fall into that trap and it'll solve nothing.<p>I also thing it's a big mistake to assume that every WS is a narcissist who's unable to be empathetic. <p>I can relate to the pain on this board...it's this board's often inability to have empathy for my own pain that bothers me (and that spurred my vent). Like I said to someone else, though...why should I expect sympathy here? Rationally I know this...but it's still annoying sometimes, that's all.<p>[ February 01, 2002: Message edited by: TowardsTheFuture ]</p>

Good Morning all - <p>Well, although I don't post here hardly at all...I read the threads daily. When I did post and tell my very sad story of how I betrayed my H, I was given nothing but support and guidance. I was welcomed and truly felt that I was at the right place to seek help. For that I thank you. I felt safe here and I owe that to you all. <p>Over the last 18 months, my H and I have done many things to re-connect, re-build and fall back in love. Our bond is very deep, nothing could break it now. I think I just wanted to post this to thank you all that so willingly share your pain, your struggles and success with the many members here...you help more than you realize.<p>And Zorweb...I NEVER miss a post of your...you're my hero!<p>Deeply Scared
Moderator
Infidelity.com

Deeply Scared,<p>Ah garsh... that was sweet. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Glad you were able to find support here. I have found that anyone who is seriously working on marriage building is welcome here on MB.<p>Z

Zorweb - <p>*giddy with excitment* I can't believe I'm actually posting to you [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I was really lucky that my H was willing to give me another chance, he loves me very much to put up with me. We both have worked very hard at putting our marriage back together...I think we've done an excellent job for the most part.<p>We learn and grow closer everyday, he still has pain and so do I...but slowly we let go a little at a time. I predict a very happy future for us both and I think he does to. <p>Sometimes we still hit a bump here and there...but we always work through it together. We applied many of the MB strategies early in our reconciliation and along with counseling, we made it safely to the other side. <p>Thanks again, I really appreciate it!<p>Deeply Scared

[/quote]I also thing it's a big mistake to assume that every WS is a narcissist who's unable to be empathetic[/quote]<p>Gee... guess you've been reading my other posts as well...<p>did you miss this disclaimer?
[/quote]Just a caution to all...
we're all something to one degree or another... there is no normal...<p>... I looked at the book w/ interest to understand MY part in the relationship... and that is NOT to say I think my H is a narcissist 'cause I am not qualified to make such a diagnosis... but many of the qualities are there... [/quote]<p>I don't think he is a narcissist... I don't think ALL WSs are narcissists... why do YOU think I DID?<p>note that I looked at the book for the THERAPY NOTES... again... <p>I am looking for SOLUTIONS not BLAME....<p>Cali

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by fairydust:
<strong><p>1. All wives are above all bitter, then also fat, ugly & lazy. This however only applies to wives who weren't their H's OW first. An OW who becomes a wife is never bitter and always very glamorous and perfect.
]</strong><hr></blockquote><p>lol fairydust. Thanks for the great laugh! I think that is the funniest thing I have ever read on here. The lack of logic and clear thinking on the part of some of the OP's will never fail to amuse me.

copy/paste from the *** (possible advertisement?) Front Page;<p>"deleted possible copyrighted material"<p>I make MYSELF read that often... That REALLY is who *** is for. And those that find it initially are those that usually the ones that need it most. Most are in for a BIG SHOCK. <p>What many don't seem to realize, is that no PUBLIC FORUM can be a "safe" place, from being "discovered" when you post enough specific details about yourself and your situation.<p>I don't believe initially, *** was intended to be "for" the WS, "MM" hence the many "cakeman" references throughout the site. However more than a handful have/do post there. At some point, a new abbreviation had to be made...MOW for the "Married Other Woman", I always referred to my "friend" as the MW, as she wasnt the OTHER, she was my only, and she was a MARRIED WOMAN! (Tho if I was M, I suppose she could be a MOW) *** is for those folks as well.<p>*** was NEVER meant to be for the Betrayed Spouse!
There are many there who post regularly, though. And as some here and elsewhere have pointed out, they are MORE welcome on some boards, there, than others.<p>IF anyone, and I mean ANYONE BS, OW, MM, OM, WS, MD., Phd., ad infinitum, comes for the sole purpose of making vile, pernicious personal attacks, they get "poofed" and eventually banned, and I would hope that there is a similar policy here as well. As nobody needs that crap.<p>2 Exceptions though...
the VENT board, is a mudslingfest, for those who like that sort of thing<p>and the *** UBB General Board, where intense discussion and debate is allowed, and often mild flaming...
(the OW/OM ONLY board was created in response to complaints re: the General Board, from many OW's that BS did not belong there) <p>(I'd like to add that many OP's were at one time a BS, or vice versa, and I think that its really EASY to judge untill you've worn the shoes yourself)<p>Let me get to the crux here... Some folks at all the boards enjoy "crossposting" and sharing of views, some DO NOT. Those that "visit" other sites, should remember they are guests, often uninvited, and maintain a bit of decency and respect. I have not always done that myself, but I'm working on it!<p>hugs, clarkie [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If its still objectionable, I will delete it. I merely was responding to a thread that NAMED (and to some degree DEFAMED ***, and I felt I might be able to shed some light) <p>and finally, clarkie does not necessarily represent the views of the owners or members of ***, merely his own.<p>[ February 01, 2002: Message edited by: clarkie ]</p>

Clarkie,<p>I have actually seen YOU copy and paste from other sites and you are the moderator. I do not agree with this practice...never have.<p>I feel that it is your responsibility to protect your members,rather than incite wars. Copying and pasting URL's from board to board is hurtful.
Although you have been quick to point out that it is not against the rules of GloryB, I do feel that it goes against the rules of fair play and common decency.<p>Each site should be for healing...don't you agree???<p>I did what I did for one reason and one reason only. I was hoping to show you that when you do this, members get hurt. It serves no purpose. Do you see this, now that the shoe is on the other foot?<p>Let's keep all boards safe for their members. Set a good and strong example and stop copying and pasting from other sites. It is hurtful, not helpful.<p>Truce?

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Clarkie,<p>My post was not directed at you.
It was at my esteemed MB members who took it upon themselves to hunt down peole on the TOW site and copy and paste things from there.
That was harassment and I for one found it very offensive and felt that they were sheding a bad light on MB and it's members.<p>The rules state that if you feel that the boards are being misused you should contact a moderator and let them know.
Instead of doing this several members took it upon themselves and handled it very poorly.<p>I'm sorry that it appeared I was jusdging you. I in no way meant to do that.<p>I have already sent letters to both moderators regarding this and the other thread and the turn they have taken.<p>Again, I was mearly trying to point out that the situation between Marsha/Marshall should have and could have been handled much better.<p>My apologies.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Cali:
<strong><hr></blockquote>I also thing it's a big mistake to assume that every WS is a narcissist who's unable to be empathetic[/quote]<p>Gee... guess you've been reading my other posts as well...<p>did you miss this disclaimer?
[/quote]Just a caution to all...
we're all something to one degree or another... there is no normal...<p>... I looked at the book w/ interest to understand MY part in the relationship... and that is NOT to say I think my H is a narcissist 'cause I am not qualified to make such a diagnosis... but many of the qualities are there... [/quote]<p>I don't think he is a narcissist... I don't think ALL WSs are narcissists... why do YOU think I DID?<p>...."I THINK IT'S CALLED LEARNING TO BE EMPATHETIC".<p>Cali</strong>[/QUOTE]<p>That part of your response from the previous post is why I did, since you seem to be be implying that "in-empathy" is the same as narcissism. Or, if it's not a generalization towards all WS, maybe it's just ME that you're saying is a narcissist?<p>[ February 02, 2002: Message edited by: TowardsTheFuture ]</p>

Kira, Let me get this straight...YOUR chastizing ME for copying and pasting from one website to another? That would seem to be the pot calling the kettle black, would it not?<p>And my posts were not on "Just Found Out" or "Pregnancy/Children", they were on GQII, and it does seem to be a little more open to honest debate and feedback. <p>Patient Love, Sorry I misinterpreted!...and,
Thank You,
hugs, c