I did a site search with the word abandonment, and the top hit was the article Why Women Leave Men, so I wrote a feedback asking for answers to the questions I have posed on this thread about the Harley model of M seeming to be available only to the able-bodied and those without trauma or crisis in their lives. I hope one of the Harleys will write an article about this or if my questions have already been answered by them, then direct me to where I can find them.<p>I'm going to talk to my H about this struggle I'm having. I already talked to him today about my need for him to re-examine his actions with an eye toward finding where he could have changed course and how (IOW, demonstrate insight). His assertion is that he should have just said No, that he's been propositioned before and declined. My point is, Why were you in a position to be propositioned in the first place?<p>I'm trying to get him to see that I felt just as neglected and abandoned as he did, yet I avoided an A. It was our different choice of lifestyle. I created a lifestyle for me that actively avoided temptation. He chose a lifestyle that INCREASED opportunities for temptation. The choice is made far before you are attracted to someone or they are attracted to you.<p>I believe it is my recognition of my vulnerability to an A, and the lifestyle I created with that in mind that prevented me from having an A. When I discovered someone was attracted to me, in ADDITION to saying no, I backtracked and analyzed where *I* got off on the wrong track and made adjustments in my activities and relationships to avoid that type of thing happening again.<p>I asked myself, How did I end up in that situation? and took steps to correct whatever missteps I had made. For instance, I stopped having opposite-sex friendships that didn't include my H. I arranged to work at home, but even when I worked outside, I was able to find ways to avoid being alone with a man.<p>On the computer, I disabled IM and private chats and eliminated loops, groups or boards where a man seemed to show too much interest in me or where I felt myself attracted to a man. To this day, I have had to avoid one of the infidelity support sites because of being way too attracted to a poster there. I still feel the pull of that one.<p>Even here, I thank God that they've set this up the way they have because I have the same recurrent thought that someone else recently expressed: Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier if all of us gave up our struggle and hooked up with each other? It sure couldn't be any worse, and at least we're all well versed in the concepts and would have that advantage from the get-go.<p>Fortunately, this has been a safe environment because even when some of us express that desire to find what we need elsewhere, the rest of us are able to insert the voice of reason and keep each other on track.<p>Most of the time I wish I could just forget the whole thing and get on with my life, but it sticks to me like flypaper and gets in the way of everything I try to do. I keep hoping that somewhere I'll find the answers I need to be able to finally set it down and let go and move on to better things.

Loveherstill,<p>That's a good sentiment. Is it from a song?<p>I know there are things I can be doing that are more productive than trying to figure out what may be un-figure-out-able. In one way, part of this is for him as well as me. If his best will never be good enough, if the circumstances preclude his ever being able to provide me with a feeling of security, then not only is it a waste of time for me to try to educate him about my other ENs, it's not even fair to ask him to meet them.<p>I asked him today if he could remember how he felt when he was in my position (BS in his previous M), and I reminded him of some of the things he has said in the past that expressed his feelings about that time in his life. I said that none of that has changed because he's now on the other side. I'm going through all those things and more because I'm trying to do what he opted not to do back then: I'm trying to stay IN the M.<p>I also told him of my struggle of facing that every other man in the world has been nicer to me than he has because none of them has done this heinous thing to me. I told him of my temptation to pick any man at random because the outcome certainly couldn't be any worse than this. Even if I got physically assaulted, at least I'd have society and the criminal justice system on my side and have some recourse and protection. So many of us have to suffer through the abuse of adultery without society holding the perpetrator accountable in any concrete way.<p>I guess the previous paragraph kind of makes your point because all of my forethought and decision-making process before I married this man that I thought would protect me from this outcome was of no benefit whatsoever.<p>I'm even starting to understand the OP's side of this more because if a committed exclusive R is such a crap shoot with no guarantees, then it's no wonder they opt for the sure thing of the high of romance with none of the responsibilities. You can go into that type of R KNOWING there won't be a happily-ever-after and just enjoy the moment.

We can all understand your pain. Here is what I found really works for me and the one you love and the relationship. I have discovered that there are three entities... me, her, and the relationship. Sometimes I now ask myself "what"s best for the relationship" in other words, is what I say or do going to raise or lower the other persons interest level? Almost every decision I make about the relationship is filtered through this thought. It then hit me slowly, but I started to make wiser decisions for the relationship.
Not for me, not for her, but for the relationship.
Sometimes I realized that doing nothing toward her and just silently make my changes and show her that I was living a happy fulfilled life was the best for the relationship. When you are not around the other person you find out about being alone. It can be the best thing that ever happened to you, to them, and to the "relationship" When the other person sees that you seem happy with yourself and your life, you are like a magnet. Just be nice, be confident, and ACT happy. I find myself thinking of ways to let her know I love her, and that sometimes means she wants me to leave her alone. If I love her then that means that I will say Ok. Remember that the other person is going to wonder what is going on. They may not let you know that they are watching, but I bet that in their own personal thoughts, all sorts of questions are going thru their minds. So my advice is this....<p>Start by working on yourself. Say to yourself' I can do it" Let him see a woman who is confident, happy and going somewhere with her life.. With or without him. Be a little mysterious..Us men love that!!! When you talk to him be plesant. Don"t forget about HUMOR.....We all forget to make the other person laugh.... Don't we all like people who laugh and have a good time? Good luck!! You can do it!

Hi Congueror,
I am feeling the same way as you. I HATE this life too!! I went away for a few days and it felt wonderful to relax and try to have some fun. It was the best thing I could have done for myself (my H is living next door with OW so I can't get away from IT at all). I am in somewhat of a Plan B right now. I haven't talked to H for just about 2 weeks. My kids are older, so it makes it easier. His living next door makes a true Plan B impossible. I did not initiate a Plan B, it just simply happened. Anyway, I am rambling...sorry. I tend to do that sometimes. My thoughts are with you and wish you well in whatever you decide to do. The responses on this thread have been wonderful and I hope they will help. Good luck and God bless.
BH

Keep Movn,<p>I did all that, and now I have him, but what I'm struggling with is Do I want him? and Do I want this M? If I have any love left, it is so covered with all this "stuff" that I can't feel it anymore. Not only am I living with a stranger most of the time, but I had fallen out of love with the man I knew BEFORE the A anyway.<p>I could probably get any man I set my mind to I've become so adept at all the things men love and enjoy, so I guess that's why I'm struggling. Why waste all that on someone who doesn't appreciate it enough to protect it and hold onto it? He still hasn't explained to me why he left what he claims is "the best" here at home, here for the taking, and chose to go slumming instead. My suspicion is it had something to do with punishing me for having needs of my own that interfered with his.<p>I didn't go elsewhere because even though we were disconnected, I valued what we had when we were connected enough to not take the risk of never having it again. Obviously he did not assign the same value to what we have when we are together. It's not any different now than it was before. I had the same "superior" anatomy back then. I gave the same "best h*** he's ever had" back then. I was just as intelligent then as I am now. NOTHING about me has changed, other than I am older than I was then. But OW is older than I, so that's no explanation.<p>I certainly did not walk away from "the best" for something less than the best, so I guess I'll never get it. I now know I can educate ANY willing man to be "the best" for me in SF, and as for the rest, like I said above, ANY man is more attractive to me than my H as far as pain infliction and cruelty are concerned, and there are many men who are as physically attractive, intelligent, and humorous as my H, and on top of that, honorable and admirable--qualities he no longer possesses in my eyes.<p>I guess I'm tired of fighting for something that may not be worth fighting for, and I'm recognizing that *I* am the prize and should I settle for this? I haven't even been kissed properly in over a month, yet he gets daily "kissing" where men like it most. Go figure. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I've been trying to get a daily 10-second kiss for more than 10 years now. Is that really too much? I'd be willing to bet that every man on this forum would jump at the chance to get a daily b*** j** in exchange for a daily 10-second kiss. Why do I even have to ASK for this?<p>[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>