I've been separated a little more than 2 months, after 9 months plan A. My kids (5, 8, and 10) have been asking many questions, but the trigger was how can I ask them not to fight, when me and Mom are fighting. Usually we are able to set an example for whatever we ask them to do. So I repeated that I'd like to get back together, but I can't while Mom is seeing other guys. That we are both responsible for problems in the marriage and could work them out, but not while Mom is dating.<p>One time a couple weeks ago, I almost told them. Since then I talked with Steve Harley about it and we practically rehearsed the words. So when the questions came up again Sunday night, I told them.<p>So more questions follow. Mom has told them she goes out to rock clubs with friends, and that's okay. I say no those are dates, and I give an example name of a longtime male friend of hers, who is not a boyfriend. Then 10 y.o. says, "and like (another name), he's just a friend" and I say no, he's a boyfriend. This guy has given them gifts, but he's not their buddy. He's at least the 2nd OM they've met. But now I guess my kids will be wondering about every new man they meet.<p>Some other things that have come out:

• She told them I never did anything with the kids, until she made me.
• She told them I'm running up the bills, and will cause them to lose the house.
• She told them I will cause them to be in daycare.
• I moved out because I don't want to be friends with my wife.

These are specific, unsolicited statements on more than one occasion, from the 10 y.o. and the 5 y.o. The 8 y.o. just asks lots of questions about bills and money.<p>It reached the point where I thought they needed a more balanced picture. I don't want the boys especially thinking a husband just moves out when he's tired of the marriage. I don't want any of them thinking it's okay to date while married (Steve's point). Although they didn't realize it was dating, because Mom told them it wasn't.<p>W didn't like this. Yesterday afternoon she called and asked me to watch or tape a show on Oprah, about the effects of badmouthing a spouse to your kids. I have to give her credit for giving this suggestion politely.<p>After I told them briefly why I really moved out, they drew a lot of other conclusions. The 10 y.o. thought I could get Mom arrested. So I spent a lot of time explaining that it's not just Mom, both of us have the responsibility for some of the problems. The 10 y.o. commented that it makes more sense now. Granted they're just kids, but I think some of their reaction is caused by the deception they've also lived with. They went through this for almost a year before plan B, Mom sleeping on the couch, staying out real late twice a week, etc. They didn't understand but now some things fall into place.<p>Last night, W and I met by accident and we had a 10-minute discussion about this. She categorically denied saying anything related to my bullet list above. Then she commented 10 y.o. thinks I have a girlfriend. This is based on something I told him over the weekend. I spoke with a woman at a support group meeting last week, and she suggested we look at birds for a new pet. The suggestion was relevant to my kids, because we're looking for a pet. This conversation was actually part of a group exercise, talk with the person next to you about some general topic. I asked if she had a dog. Anyway, my son misinterpreted or extrapolated the situation, but you see there were some facts behind it. So I believe that my kids are quoting my wife accurately, they are not just making things up out of thin air. I think in this particular case, they may now be wondering about any person of the opposite sex that either me or my wife talks about.<p>I don't know where this is going. W will probably retaliate somehow, but I think those possibilities were coming anyway. I also believe the kids would have found out sooner or later, either from me or someone else.<p>This is an ongoing question on the boards, whether and how to tell the kids. Just thought I would offer up this experience, and ask for any comments or suggestions. Because there will have to be some followup talks.<p>- Tom

JMHO...telling the truth to children without going into details and with their ages in mind is NOT bad mouthing the other spouse. Always be sure to include that this is from only your point of view and that your wife might look at it differently. NEVER lie to children, it will come back and bite you every time; but don't offer a lot unless they ask the question and make sure you know what the question is. You do not have to get down into the mud to be honest with them, even on painful subjects where you may feel the "right" to get "dirty"; it's not worth it for your own self-esteem or the security loss in your children. <p>From your post, it seems that you are trying to be fair for the most part. As for explaining about the other men in her life, you might want to let them know that some of them may well be ONLY friends, but that you believe that she feels more towards some of the men then just friendship. And explain in a general sense the boundaries that are normal for a married person to abide by when dealing with the others.<p>Good luck on finding your healing path!

It seems kind of strange to tell your young children that their mother has a boyfriend - I don't know, it seems just cruel and may be confusing to them. I kind of wish you had simply told them you all were having some problems. Why did you need to bring up OP? Now they are going to wonder about any opposite sex friends you or her ever have...that's what they are already doing with that lady from the support group that went bird shopping with you...<p>something just didn't sound right about it...

It is not as strange as not telling your kids anything. The kids in this case have already met the OM or OMs. Like tmmx said, his children are now able to make some sense of all this nonsense. <p>Children need to know they are not being deceived. This is important to all persons. <p>After WS left our home (moved out), my son asked if I could please go find him a dad since he needed one. He said his dad does not want to be a dad because no dad should move out on his family so the next logical step in my child's 6 year old mind was to go find a replacement. This put me in tears but it also made me see that our child was not about to stop the world for his wayward father. I learned a valuable lesson from my little one and many more afterward. <p>Being truthful with your children maybe initially painful but will build lasting trust. <p>JMHO,
L.

Thanks for the posts. There is not a consensus on this, as I know very well. I will be sure to keep reinforcing that my wife is not a bad person. Without harping on it. The kids will ask questions and really press one visit, then one or two visits go by with nothing, and then more intensive questions. That's what happened Sunday.<p>I spoke with my wife almost an hour tonight after dropping something off (not very plan B-like). She wants to put this down to a communication problem between us, the no-contact part of plan B really bothers her. One positive upshot of this, is that finally, she might agree on (actually she suggested) going to family counseling together on that basis. She would only talk to Steve Harley once, didn't like what he said, not interested in local marriage counselors last year. So now I am wondering ...<p>I didn't actually go bird shopping with the lady from the support group, she only suggested that me and the kids look at birds. That probably wasn't clear in my first post.<p>Shannon1 - I looked at your other posts and there is nothing about your own situation. Unless I missed it. Could you please fill me in a little bit?<p>- Tom

This is such a hard topic but a very relevant one.<p>You don't want to lie, you don't want to bad mouth, and you certainly don't want the kids to think that what the WS is doing is normal.<p>Iwas talking with my 7 1/2 year old today about pregnant women - because I am pregnant - and about how you need to help them and respect them - even if they are not your mom or wife because of all the hard work they are doing making a baby, and he said something to the effect that I've never had to go through having a baby without a daddy around and that this must be really hard for me or that I was having a really bad/terrible time right now because daddy is not here to take care of me. <p>Out of the mouth of babes. K

I think you are doing right by your kids to tell them the truth--even if it hurts. If you believe they are old enough, then I say it's best.<p>They will respect you in the long run and the real truth will surface eventually, anyway!

Thanks, K and BTDT.<p>My wife talked to a family counselor at church about this and asked me to call the counselor, which I did. Our 10 y.o. is already going to a family counselor with a different group; he has some problems with temper even before the separation. The church family counselor knows the one we are seeing, and suggested we talk to her about how to present things to the kids. This was the plan anyway, at least with me and my son, with the counselor we are already seeing, after enough sessions with the 10 y.o.<p>I didn't get a chance to clarify whether I was actually "bad-mouthing" my wife or not, since I was making dinner and the kids were running around during this phone call. My wife calls it bad-mouthing. I'm interested whether these counselors believe it's wrong to ever mention this subject, that it constitutes bad-mouthing no matter what the circumstances or how I presented it.<p>This is the first time in over a year my wife was interested in any type of counseling. She spoke with Steve H once and didn't like what he said. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>- Tom

Oh well... the truth hurts doesn't it? Especially for the ones who are in denial and try to keep up a facade or a reality they have created for themselves... The truth hurts. Especially for those who have a tough time dealing in reality. Affairs are based on fantasy, not reality.<p>Your WS has lost her place of dignity and respect through an A and is the process of losing her marriage. Period. She chose 4 OM! How is that your fault? I think it is just hard for her to say YES I AM DATING AND I'M SORRY I HAVE BEEN FIGHTING WITH YOUR DAD RIGHT NOW, BUT I STILL LOVE YOU GUYS AND NONE OF THIS IS YOUR FAULT. I think her kids would respect her more if she did that instead of trying to pretend that she is not dating and continuing in all the lies and snide remarks about their father--YOU!<p>Good luck, you have a good position to negotiate your terms in Plan B so hunker down and keep a good attitude, cuz anything is possible. Hope for the best and keep the faith!<p>For encouragement, read some success stories in Just Found Out in Notable Posts.<p>[ February 01, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

Well, <p>I am in the position of not having to tell my kids, because he took them out with OW, and SHE told them she was daddy's girlfriend. Moreover, they were kissing in front of the kids..........<p>So I don't know what I WOULD have done........it was taken out of my hands...but my kids, who are 8, 6 and 4, waited FIVE months before telling me about the kiss. Why? Because they KNEW it would hurt me...well yes it did, but because it was done in front of my BABIES!!!!!!!!!!!<p>H and I live in different countries at the moment, and H came back for two weeks in January. Oldest son says if SHE is there, I am not going with dad! I said And I won't let you anyway!<p>I think it sucks that they expect the kids to accept their immoral ways...it just SUCKS!!!!! How DARE they expose this to the children. It is what caused me to leave him in one country, you know. I could not BEAR to let my kids go through such a day again.<p>Just my two cents,<p>Jacky

I knoooow. Parents involved in difficult relationships is very tough on the kids because they are little sponges.<p>Tom,
You've been around for a while, but just in case you have not read this article by Dr.Harley, it's worth reading...<p>Infidelity: The Lessons Children Learn

Thanks, guys. I did see the article before and it was a factor in my thinking. My kids have seen at least 3 OM, accepted gifts. They all went to the drive-in movie one time in July, and while I don't think they "saw anything", I can't be sure and I sure can't take my wife's word for it. She denies anything that she thinks I don't have positive proof of. I hate to think she has been telling the kids to hide stuff. Jacky's kids waited several months, and the ages are very similar.<p>The kids were here past 2 nights and the specific subject did not come up. But my 5 y.o. daughter told me that Mommy married me because I was lonely and wanted a family, and she asked if that was true. I said I don't know, those are Mommy's feelings and only she can answer. But certainly I have heard many statements like that.<p>The 10 y.o. got really upset last night and he has trouble controlling his anger. What set it off, is that we went bowling and his younger brother and sister both got higher scores. We talk, and of course it turns out he's really upset about the family situation. Again, my 8 y.o. son is like the rock. He goes out of his way to reassure his older brother, talking about how the family is more important than himself, offering different ways to help his older brother. I'm talking, too, and tearing up just watching this. But it makes me feel better to see it.<p>We close by saying some prayers before bed, and we always ask God to watch over Mommy.