Okay, now that I have the ladies' attention [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] !<p>I have been an MB lurker for 3 mos. now. It has helped and enlightened me a great deal. My story in a nutshell.....I'm an alcoholic. I've been dry for 4 mos with the help of AA. I have lost 70lbs in that time (6ft. 195lbs if you wondered). I have been plan A'ing now for 4 mos. Some LB's but in general I'm doing well for myself. My W told me the 'love you, but not in love...yada, yada, yada'. You know the drill. I found out in Oct.'01 she was having an EA. Mostly IM on computer. Yes I snooped and it was a major LB for her! I've tracked my LBing and in 4 mos I can only think of 4 LB's. My W has acknowledged my efforts and has told me that she knows I don't think she is trying. She's partially right. I don't think she's trying hard enough.<p>Here's the thing. Our SF has been going down hill for a couple of years. Less frequent and not as good - for either of us. I blame my drinking for alot of that. But after doing an honestly good Plan A for 4 mos, she still has no fellings of affection for me. SF is important to me (top 3 EN), but showing love is critical to my Bank account. It's getting low - very low. I told her that I was thinking of moving out to preserve the love I still have for her (Plan B). She asked me not to and said she thought we would just grow further apart and never fix M.<p>She talks a decent game, but actions are what is needed. If I try and tell her that, she gets VERY defensive and shuts down (another of my few LB in 4 mos).<p>We've been married 20 years, two boys, 15, 18. No PA's on either side. Although I have to admit to desires on my part since she is anit-SF.<p>How long will it take????????????????????? [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Why doesn't she see that I need some of my EN's fulfilled before it's too late?<p>She thinks this MB thing is 'consuming me' and it is not healthy for M. Well you can tell how many times I've posted. Hardly consuming me! But I admit to reading MB nightly to catch up on people I care about (SnL, Persistent, Redhat, Orchid, Hurrian Hoosier, and so many others).<p>I'm probably just venting tonight cuz today was rough. But how long before SF or any other of my EN's are touched (pun intended [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] !)<p>Thanks guys for your help.<p>Gib

OK, so now you've been play A'ing her. Sounds like she is receptive to working on things. So now you need to start courting her. Women need that to feel the desire for SF. Look at it from the view point that you need to start your relationship all over with her. Now if you had just met her, would you expect her to jump at SF with you? Or would you know you need to court her, win her over, and maybe even seduce her? You are rebuilding you relationship... treat it like a brand new one.<p>What are your wife's top 5 EN's? What are you doing to meet them? Has she told you what she needs you to do to fill them?<p>Here's a link to an interesting article I found the other day... says a lot about it all from a women's point of view.<p>The Walkaway Wife Syndrome<p>Take a look at the book "1001 Ways to be Romantic" by Gregory Godek. She needs to feel loved and cherished again. <p>Also try approaching her with hugs and romantic kisses that are just that and nothing more. Maybe even a massage. She needs to learn to let you in close again. No attempts at SF. Just some fun romance.<p>Yes, I know this will be frustrating to you when you hug, kiss and massage but don't take it any further. But realize that may very well be what is needed. You cannot demand SF, that will turn her off totally.

Thanks Zorweb. I appreciate the link and book info. I'll look for that book at the store.<p>The hugs, kisses, massages have been part of a very difficult Plan A. Ya know, times when I felt like pulling away but the opportunity was there to fill one of her ENs. So I almost always jump at that chance.<p>I've sometimes thought of giving up on our relationship, but still live in our home. When I say 'give up' I mean stop trying to fill her ENs all the time and get on with my life. I wonder if that would shake her out of this apathy she has towards our M?

Hi Gibby ~<p>Congratulations on your sobriety.<p>If you can, obtain the book "The Dilemma of the Alcoholic Marriage". It's Al-Anon material and might give you some insight, as it specifically dealsl with sex and the alcoholic.<p>Is your wife interested in attending Al-Anon?

Thanks BR<p>I'll look for that book in my next AA meeting. Aanon meets in the same place.<p>No, she has showed little to no interest in Alanon or my AA efforts. Although she has acknowledged my efforts twice in the last 4 mos. She is seeing IC, but I don't think this IC is working much with her on our M. Probably just trying to help her be stronger in case we end up in D. That's just my opinion though. We say a MC twice, but niether of us was impressed with her and have stopped going. I don't think my W would go back another MC for a while, if at all.<p>I've tried courting her. Dates, talks, cards, poems, flowers, candy, even diamonds! Still she is 'chilly' towards me and not putting much effort in our M.<p>For the first 15 years of our M, she was a stay home mom (toughest job on the planet IMHO). She was doing alot of the little things to fulfill my ENs and she tells me that I was making her very happy then too. But since she has started a career she has become much more distant and gives other people more of herself (and treats them with more compassion) than gives to me. While I have increased my affection and compassion towards her. She has said people change, and this is who I am. Frankly, I would not want to court/date this new person. I hope I am trying to date the W I married.<p>The Alien reference for WS seems very appropriate.<p>How do I know if she really has changed into this person I don't like? Will some of the old W come back?<p>Thanks again for the book info [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

[shameless bump]

Gibby,<p>I feel for ya! I'm in the SF wasteland myself right now too.<p>Sadly for me, WW openly admits I'm good looking, and there's been a few moments of sexual tension. (She's even admitted I'm better looking than OM! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ) I've purposely avoided getting into anything, because I really believe it has to come from her.<p>Another idea in addition to zorweb's (very true stuff BTW).. be more tantalizing. Get some new clothes she might like to see you in. (My WW LOVES plaid flannel on me, so I've shamelessly bought a couple of such shirts! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ) Consider doing some working out too - I've started into that, recalling that there was a period in the past where I worked out quite a bit, and WW commented at the time that it was a big turn-on for her!<p>As for how long... well for me, it's been 4 months, 29 days, 18 hours, 32 minutes, ... you get the idea! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] Who knows... keep yourself busy!

Thanks JR<p>Yeah, I've been working out too - alot. Probably too much. I'm not as young as I used to be [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] !<p>Had something fun happen a couple weeks ago. Was having dinner in a bar (drinking coffee!) and a twenty something walks past me and said, 'What a hunk!'. Being 42 and not having any affection for 134 days, 2 hours, 3 minutes,.......That was a nice bank deposit and needed reinforement for my
personal efforts.<p>Hey! Maybe that is a good thread to start. How long since SF. Anyone got the courage? I'm not sure I do [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] !<p>Thanks again JR - you hang in there too!<p>Gib