Everytime H and I discuss 'stuff' when I am trying to tell my point-of-view, he gets angry and states "So it's my fault...I'm to blame for everything." The other day I was just so frustrated... I said "NO... it is NOT about blame...I'm NOT trying to blame you..." but I couldn't quite get out what I was meaning...<p>Anyway, I was reading in Lusterman's book "Infidelity, A Survival Guide" last night and he had a section on recovery discussing 'empathy.' Lightbulb went on... that's what I was talking about... I have been working really hard to understand... to be empathetic... to 'get' how my H has been feeling all these years in our marriage... but he cannot seem to reciprocate.... even when I use 'I' statements he 'hears' it as blame....<p>I did state this to him yesterday and he said, "Empathy, eh?" End of discussion...<p>Anyway... I put empathy in a search engine... cause I wanted to write some more about it here... and check out what I found...<p>http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/g2699/0005/2699000560/p1/article.jhtml<p>way to weird...<p>Cali

Cali,<p>Just about describes modern-day humanity exactly. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Rainbow

Dang!!! That article describes a lot of my H's traits! Guess I need to read a bit more on the subject....quite a bit more!<p>Thanks, Cali!

Cali,<p>I know you are a reader so check out Deborah Tannen's books on the differences on how males and females communicate. She goes into the how's and why's of why there are gender differences in how we communicate and how and why each gender "receives" what is being communicated.<p>She's not some "fly by night" person out there just spouting off her opinion. It's been so long since I read her that I can't remember her exact credentials, but she has them. I've read two of her books on male/female communication patterns. Her books are a deep read and go further than the Mars/Venus stuff. I think you'd get a lot out of her.

thanks mthrr... I'll do an Amazon search on her...<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>Cali

the narcicisstic personality type... seems quite able to have an affair... if not the center of attention at home... GOd forbid we have needs, the narcicisstic's spouse, right? Not saying anyone has a N spouse.. but I know my H fits the bill quite nicely... hope he's not... we have enough problems... guess it's just another psychoanalytic approach to the wierdness of being human... we all deserve love... despite whatever dsm we fit into, right? I just think this is a trumped up explanation of an insecure male... what a lot of cheating H's have, right?<p>Opinions, thank! don't all men need lots of attention???<p>as far as I am concerned, as a woman, it helps to be loved too!<p>HONEY

Honey....<p>Don't want to take over anyone's thread, but felt the need to respond to your post. Narcissistic Personality Disorder is completely different from the needs you describe as being typical of most men. This is an all encompassing problem wherein the N is unable to feel anything except on a superficial basis. Consequently, ANY slight, no matter how insignficant or inconsequential is a major thing to them. No matter how loving or caring their spouse, the love they receive is never enough....it is like trying to fill a bottomless pit that keeps draining and can never be filled. They have absolutely no ability to be empathic...NONE. <p>If you want to know how I know all this, after a 21 year relationship, I couldn't figure out why my WS was unable to name one thing that S loved about me as opposed to anyone else. I couldn't understand why every argument we had was circular and never resolved anything. I was horrified when a sibling was missing and we thought possibly dead, and I was told the sibling had a spouse to worry about them and I didn't have to because my searching for them and worrying took time and devotion away from my S. Last but not least, I was horrified and devasted to find that my S who I know now has been compulsively lying to me over more than a decade that we've been married and I presume the 21 years that I've known S, has also been having repeated A's which I presume to be PA's. As a result, I sought out a counselor who after two sessions told me she thought my WS was an N. After I read everything I could find about this problem, everything made sense. <p>The circular arguments, the lack of empathy, the jealousy of time spent with friends and family, the rages and the constant pursuing following the rages or any type of rejection on my part, the lying, the manipulating, etc., etc.<p>Everyone has some form of narcisstic tendency within them at certain times, but NPD is far more severe and all consuming. I wish my counselor was wrong, but I have to believe her. The prognosis for someone with this condition is not good. I was also told that utilizing Plan A with someone like this will not accomplish the goals it is meant to. The N will just continue to suck every bit of attention, caring, etc. from the other spouse leaving them drained and unfulfilled.<p>The N does everything like a machine. Each action on their part is done for the purpose of fulfilling one of their needs or to bring about one of their purposes. Nothing is done for the benefit of anyone else. An N is incapable of that. It is only for the admiration, praise, etc., that the N will receive as a result of the action. It is solely to suit the N's purposes. <p>An N needs a home base as well as other areas of N-Supply which feed the N's needs. They compartmentalize things so that as long as the homebase is not aware of what goes on in the other compartments, the N is not being disloyal to their S. This explains why they lie.<p>Obviously, I'm not an expert on this, but I've read so much that I feel I know quite a bit. I'm still feeling my way through it all and trying to determine the proper reactions to my WS's actions.<p>I hope this has helped you to understand some too.