I found out today my husband has had more affairs than I know of, but can't give me a number because he doesn't remember. He also told me if we were to get back together, he would cheat on me again, because I am missing something he needs (he "needs" a "fiery" woman). He's very remorseful and sorry for the pain he causes me, he also says he will always love me and only hopes I don't come to hate him. I've tried to convince him to get some counseling for himself, but his is adamant that will not help. He says he is an intelligent man who knows what he feels, knows what he's done, and knows whats been done to him (possible sexual abuse) and no shrink is going to change any of that.<p>There is still much of value in the man, I love him, we've been together for 15 years and have 3 children. Has anybody else been in a situation like this and managed to work it through?

Yes,<p>My Husband has had numerous affairs. It was horrible. I kept forgiving him and going on with our lives(we have 4 kids). He was in the military, and I fully supported him in his positions. Right before he retired, he had another affair with a representative of Northrup--his second with that company--and I found out about it. I called the women and her husband found out, and that was the end of that. One month later he didn't get hired with United Airlines. He called me at work so upset. I raced up to the airport to pick him up. He sobbed on my shoulder about how he had let me down, how he was sorry for all the affairs--how this would never happen again.<p>Well, he did get hired by Northwest airlines, we had a huge retirement ceremony and 8 months later, he left with a 28 year old flight attendant. After all the hurt and pain, all the recovering, all the love and support I have given that man....nothing changes.<p>There is something wrong with someone who cannot commit to a relationship. Someone who thinks it is ok to abandon his family and his wife. I will probably always love this man...but I can't endure anymore pain. If I had to do it all over again--I think I would have left the relationship 12 years ago. Unless you two go to counseling and get changes in your relationship---can you continue to live with his philandering?

Dedex1,<p> I found out in Sept. that my H had had numerous affairs, maybe 20 in our 15 years of marriage, even some going back to before we were married. I never suspected because he has a career that requires long hours, he's on call, etc. He's always been very ambitious. I turns out some of the time he was not going to work or work out, he was going to other womens homes while their H's weren't home! <p>TO this day, I have to say I did not suspect a thing and was not in denial either, I really just trusted him wholeheartedly because we had a good marriage in all other ways. We have 4 kids, ages from 14 to 3. He is a person in recovery from drugs/alcohol and had been sober from these thing for 10 years. After he confessed to me all these A's, we sought counseling. Our MC told us that he thought my H had a sex addiction that he used to replace his other addictions. He is in treatment for this now. We are still together as we speak and he wants to stop his behavior and be committed to me only. <p>I have been devastated by this, it has been the worse thing in my life bar none. I really feel for you, I know how you must be in tremendous pain. There is nothing like it.

At first my H did not think he could change and did not know if he wanted to anyway. I hung in there while his last A began to fizzle out in the light of day. I did plan A, sometimes not very successfully. Our situation may not be exactly like yours in that my H had a drug relapse after ending this last A, although there was still EA going on w/ her. But now that I knew about other A's and would not tolerate this again and he knew it, I believe that he turned back to drugs because he no longer had sex to fill his emptiness inside. So now he is in rehab and getting treated for sex and drug addiction at the same time.<p>Pick up the book by Patrick Carnes, "Don't Call It Love". He has other books on sex addiction as well. Read and see if the descriptions meet what you know about your H. In that book, I have read that a very large percentage of sex addicts were sexually abused as a child. Try to get him to therapy if at all possible. <p>I am so sorry this has happened to you. I, too see much value in my H and still have some hope of it working out. I know it will not be easy but it can hardly be worse than what has happened so far. We shall see how it goes when he returns. So far he is wanting it to work, too, but who knows what will happen in the real world. If you would like to email me, let me know, I would be glad to help you in any way I can. firefly

firefly, Thank you for the response. E-mail might be helpful because most people think I should run from this man as fast as I can. Which perhaps is true, but isn't the solution I want. My email address is dedex13@yahoo.com.<p>My husband had a rough time growing up. His parents divorced after 23 years of marriage and then remarried and divorced again. His mother has a problem with alcohol and the other three children all have had some type of substance abuse problem. I always thought my husband was the lucky one (although he has used in the past and will now if he can get his hands on it). I suspect now he also has a sexual addiction, along with the affairs, he spends an awful lot of time looking at porn. He lost his job last year because of sex and now he admitted his current girlfriend also works for his company (although at a different location). <p>He told me about 6 months ago that he was sexually abused as a child, by a neighbor (who wasn't too much older than him). I didn't get too many details from him and am actually not sure if it was more of a homosexual experience than abuse. He did say when he told me that he had never told anyone else.<p>I want to help him, but fear that only earns me the label of "codependent". It's almost like he purposefully sabotages everything that is good in his life. Regardless of what happens, I am connected to this man through my children, and will be for the rest of my life. So, while the easy and obvious solution is to give up, I'm not sure if it is truly the best thing in the long run. Of course, so much depends on him getting the help he needs, but I'm hoping if I can turn him around about how he feels about our relationship, I may be able to convince him. Right now he says he is numb.

Hi dedex,<p> I will post a little while later, trying to get dinner on the table for children. I understand about other people telling you to leave, yes, it is one solution, but by no means the easiest or the best ( for you or your kids right now). firefly

MY xH and my current H both had many affairs. There are huge differences between the two situations. <p>xH had a very long history of this. He felt that was entitled and that he could not/would not change. He also believed that there are no assurances in marriage. (Read no need for a true commitment.) I left him after 20 years together (6 single and 14 married.)<p>Current H had his affairs during a period of stress in his life… basically we got together too soon after his xW walked out on him for another man. We feel that he was doing the kind of acting out that many people do after a divorce. He does not have a life long history of affairs. And he believes in the sanctity of marriage. He is working as hard as I am to recover our marriage.<p>So therein is the problem. XH was not willing to commit or change. Current H is. And that is exactly what you are looking at. As long as your H can says that he will do it again, believe him.<p>As for the ‘fiery woman’ thing.. it’s a smoke screen. You see it’s entirely your fault because you are missing something. If he has had so many affairs that he cannot remember them it has nothing to do with you. He has a sexual addiction problem. It’s real… some people use sex to fill the emptiness in them selves and to feel loved. <p>Some sexual addicts have as hundreds of partners in a lifetime. You may want to read the book “Out of the Shadows”, Helping the Sexual Addict, by Patrick Carnes. He has a series of books on the subject. This is a good one to start with.<p>Dr. Harley says that when a problem exists like sexual addiction, drug/alcohol addiction; sever emotional abuse, physical abuse, etc. The problem needs to be fixed before recovery can even begin on the marriage. He even has suggested that the couple splits until the spouse with the problem gets control over it.<p>Yes, one would suspect that your H had a rough time growing up. But he is grown up now and has to take responsibility for his life and his actions. The most important thing is all of this is that you H has to be ready to look at himself and change. Without that commitment from him, nothing will change. Using his childhood as a way to make excuses for him will only encourage him that he has not control over his behavior. Read that other day that only 30% of those who are abused emotionally/physically/sexually will grow up to repeat the behavior. So… around 70% of all people will grow beyond their birth circumstances. It is not an excuse. <p>“Regardless of what happens, I am connected to this man through my children, and will be for the rest of my life. So, while the easy and obvious solution is to give up, I'm not sure if it is truly the best thing in the long run. Of course, so much depends on him getting the help he needs, but I'm hoping if I can turn him around about how he feels about our relationship, I may be able to convince him. Right now he says he is numb.”<p>Anything you do to change him is codependent. His path in life is his responsibility, not yours. Make the necessary changes in yourself. He will either follow or not. And give yourself a time line to accomplish this. Say 6 months to one year. If he’s still on self-destruct at that time, then a divorce may be your only sane choice. Yes, you may be tied to him for the rest of your life because of your children; most of that tie will be gone when they reach 18. And just because you share the children does not mean you should have to deal with this in your marriage any longer.<p>By the way. Now that you know of his sexual behavior, I hope you are getting the STD tests, etc that are necessary to assess your own health at this time. And for heaven sakes, don’t be intimate with him until he is about to prove his monogamy.<p>Oh, by the way you say that people are telling you to leave. It seems from what you have said that he has already left. There is not leaving left to do. This is out of your hands. Except Plan A’ing, etc.<p>IMHO

Thanks zorweb, I guess my real question isn't so much about leaving, because we are separated. But whether or not I should even try Plan A or Divorce Busting. In the long run I would like to be with this man in a happy, committed relationship where we both recognize and have overcome our individual problems. I also know that a lot of that depends on him and him changing. Right now he is quite opposed to getting professional help. But he does have a plan to improvement himself, he is going to "go to bed early, get up early, try to do the right thing each day, and try to be a better father". He's already not doing so good on the better father part -- he hasn't called the kids a single time in the week he's been gone (says I told him not to call), when he came to see them yesterday he took them to McDonald's for an hour than came right home. He also has today off work and could have made plans to do something with them, but I think the Superbowl is more important.

Hello Dedex,
On a positive note, they can change!
I am married to a serial cheater also. He is a great guy, very loving, good father, etc. ANd I also had no clue that he was cheating for all those years.
Read all you can on the subject of sexual addiction and the treatments for it. Carnes was most helpful to me. There is also some good info available online at SAA.
Shoudl you even try plan A? Hmmmm, tough call, but it was the choice I made. I had and still do have times when I wonder if it was the right thing to do for the marriage. But looking back, I know it was right for me. I know I did everything possible to keep the marriage together. I can live with that!
It was easiest for me when I detached. But that was a complex process.
You have to remember that some things are different when dealing with multiple affairs and dealing with single affiars like most on this website. Harley and Weiner often talk of sharing blame and accepting that the affair issue was only a symptom of something wrong in the marriage. THis is not so in serial affair. So dont allow him to place any blame on you-do not accept it. This is his illness and he needs to take responsibility for getting well. You can be there and help the healing process, but the work needs to be done by him.
My advice is to step back and detach from the relationship while in plan a. Support him while he heals, but dont get wrapped up in the daily trials and tribulations. You can do this!
(((((hugs))))) cl

I've read the excerpt from "Don't Call it Love" and the descriptions seem much more extreme than my husband's behavior. Any ideas how I might get him to read this, though? I would say he has some type of problem -- after losing his job last year he swore he would never get involved with another woman where he worked. But he is, and he justifies it by saying they don't work in the same location. I don't think he'll be willing to admit he has a problem, and will only resent me telling him he does (after all, the way he seems to see it, he seeks out other women because of what he doesn't get from me and that he wouldn't cheat on someone else).

As for using Plan A or Divorce Busting. I have not read Divorce Busting yet, it’s the next one on my list. Right now I’m reading “Getting Through to the Man You Love” by the same author. It’s very good.. think any woman would benefit from it. And what I can tell, both MB and Divorce Busting are on the same page. Have been wondering if a person could use both at the same time. <p>Now back to the question. If you are still married, separated or not, I think Plan A’ing (and Divorce Busting) would be a good idea. But use them to help you become the best you can be. The more you try to educate or persuade him, the more he will distance himself from you. “Getting Through to the Man You Love” talks about this and gives a better approach of how to communicate and interact with a man in a way that men understand.<p>RE: But whether or not I should even try Plan A or Divorce Busting. In the long run I would like to be with this man in a happy, committed relationship where we both recognize and have overcome our individual problems. I also know that a lot of that depends on him and him changing. <p>This is your goal, not his. You will have to win him back before he will be willing to join you on this path. <p>Many people are opposed to getting professional help. As much as I’m a proponent of professional help, sometimes it does more harm then good. You do not want him going to just anyone. Doing it yourselves is better then getting the wrong help.<p>Dr. Harley says that he believes that couples are better off avoiding the normal type of marriage counseling, as they are basically unskilled in saving marriages more trained in helping each person seek their own happiness. A disaster waiting to happen. He believes people can us his books and other resources to rebuild marriages. I now agree with him. Though if a person could use him as a coach it would be wonderful. As for help with the sexual addiction, Patrick Carnes, author of Out of the Shadows has a series of books that are self-help books to include a work book that he sexually addicted person can use for self work. So all is not lost, even if your H does not want to step through the door of a counselor.<p>But before you can get him to cooperate on all this, he has to want to be with you (sorry do not want to sound cruel here.. It’s reality.) And you need to be strong enough to guide both of you to recovery in both your marriage and with his sexual addiction problem. <p>It is good that he has a self-improvement plan. So he’s falling down on the fathering part.. well he’s not good at relationships. If you want to help him mature in this area and you want him more involved with the kids, then you can do a lot to nurture that. He is not a nurturing person from the sounds of it. If he does not call them, say every other day, let them call him. A stronger relationship needs to develop for him to feel committed to the children. Have them send him notes… include jokes and silly pictures that the kids like. If there is email, then let them send him some of those silly free internet cards.. Then set up times when he takes the kids so that you get a break… “H, I need a break from the kids. Could you please take them on Saturday afternoon so I can work out (or go to a movie, whatever). Work up to him taking them at least one day a week so you get a break. Unless he’s made of stone he will start coming around… because they well be more a part of their life. <p> My bet is that the problem with fathering is not lack of interest but the lack of understanding of how to build a relationship with kids. Many men are like this… so let the kids show him what they want of a father. They could call him and say.. .”hey dad, we want to spend some time with you could you take us to the kid’s museum on Saturday? Then we’d love to take you out for a Sunday.” See, let them melt his heart instead of them (and you) sitting around waiting for him to perform… it is not going to happen.<p>RE: He also has today off work and could have made plans to do something with them, but I think the Superbowl is more important.<p>You are doing tons of this… proving that he does not love the kids (and you enough). Both of you need to get what you want out of this life. If he wants to watch the Superbowl… great. There is no reason he cannot. It does not prove that he does not love the kids. There are 6 other days of the week he could see them. There is next weekend, etc. Encourage the children to build a relationship with their dad. Look at it this way… it is healthier for the children to have a good relationship with the kids. This has nothing to do with if you and he ever speak to each other again.<p>And what ever you do, if you follow this path.. do not tell him what you are planning and doing. It will make him resistant because he will feel controlled. Just do it in the nicest, most sincere and gracious manner you can.<p>Right now don’t even try to get him to read anything about fixing marriages or healing himself from sexual addiction or anything else. Plan A and DB him like crazy. Stop the relationship talk. If he decides that he likes the changes in you and wants to come back to you, HE will start seeking the path to come back. And then you can set some parameters.. like working on MB concepts in your marriage, his getting help for the sexual addiction, etc. And after 6 months to a year of his working on these with you, you will take him back.<p>RE: (after all, the way he seems to see it, he seeks out other women because of what he doesn't get from me and that he wouldn't cheat on someone else).<p>You know this is ridiculous, we all do. If that were the case, why has he gone from one woman to another? He’s cheating on everyone. A I’ll bet that he’s been having more then one affair at a time. But it helps him excuse his behavior. Don’t try to convince him otherwise. Work on you, not him. Help your children get what they need. If he comes around, he will come around. You cannot force this at all.

Having the kids call my husband is difficult since the only way to reach him is at work, and I don't feel comfortable with that. He said that he tries to leave his cell phone on, but the couple of times my daughter has tried to call him on the cell it is not on. The woman he is living with doesn't have a phone. Which brings up another question, when he had the children on Saturday, he mentioned to my son taking him "to Felton", which is the ow place. And also maybe spending a week (maybe weekend) there. Do I allow this? The really funny thing is that in October my daughter wanted to go over to her friends house and spend the night -- she told me that they were going to spend the night at her mother's boyfriend's house and my husband said NO WAY did he want our daughter exposed to that situation.<p>I know that there is nothing I can do to change my husband and can only change myself. I'm just not sure I want to bother, given the statement that he would cheat on me again. Although sometimes I think he purposely says things to drive me away. I'm looking forward (with some trepidation!) to my counseling session today -- hopefully she can help me get my thoughts straight.