Hello, all. I had one hell of an evening last night, and I need to share it with someone. Thanks in advance for letting me vent here. This is my first post on the GQII forum; I just recently registered with the MB site, and posted a few days on the Divorce forum. My thread over there contains some of my background info, if you're interested:<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=34&t=005552<p>I've decided to post this topic on GQII, because I'm no longer sure I want a divorce. Anyway, here's what happened yesterday:<p>First off, I spent most of the day curled up on the couch, since I have the flu and I felt lousy. Around 9:30pm, I got up from my 3rd nap, and noticed a message on my answering machine. It was my W, and she sounded upset. We don't call each other very often (maybe a couple of times per month), so I figured something must be up. I called her back, and she sounded even more upset. She was crying, and so I asked if she was ok. She replied "I'll be fine." I asked if she wanted to talk about anything, and she said "I'm sorry I hurt you." Then she asked if she could call be back "in a second." About 15 minutes later, the phone rang again, and it was OM! I'd never spoken with him before, so now I knew something serious was going on.<p>OM apologized for calling me, then explained that he and my W had had a big blow-up yesterday, and that they'd no longer be seeing each other anymore. He then told me she had taken about a dozen Tylenol, 2 Benadryl, and drank about a half a bottle of tequila.<p>I have very little respect for OM as I'm sure you can imagine. However, he is a physician, and I was worried for my W's life. I asked him if she needed to go to the hospital, and he said yes she did, but she wouldn't let him take her because she was so upset at him. She was apparently at risk of liver damage that could potentially be fatal. I immediately left for her apartment, and asked him not to leave her alone.<p>When I got there, she told me what had really happened yesterday afternoon: she walked in on OM and his W. Her phone call to me was to ask if I'd keep our dog (who has been living with her since she left). So this was definitely a suicide attempt, or at least a major cry for help disguised as a suicide attempt.<p>I was at the hospital until almost 4am when they finally cleared her to go home. During that time, she told me she has no respect left for herself, she apologized about 50 times, and she said she's stupid for ever turning to him in the first place.<p>Is this rock bottom for her? Clearly my W's emotional state is worse than I had thought. The odd thing is that I got the idea she's still not sure if she wants to give up the OM. Maybe she needs more time to think. Maybe the addiction is just too strong for her to give up even after hitting rock bottom.<p>OK, I'm done venting. Thank you all so much for the opportunity.<p>Has anyone here ever been in my position, or in my W's? If so, did the fog begin to lift afterward?<p>BP

B_P,<p>I have never been in your position and with God's help I hope to never been in such a situation. However, it seems to me your course of actions is very straight forward and obvious. I know your thinking Yeah Right!. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You have on your hands a human being that is very hurt and damaged. She needs care, she needs help, she needs another human being to listen to her pain,and finally she needs another human being to help her until she is stronger and can recover.<p>You, Sir, are the human being. <p>Notice I have said nothing about your marriage. I have said nothing about her feelings for OM. I have said nothing about your feelings about OM or what she has done or become. In my humble opinion THEY ARE NOT IMPORTANT! <p>At least not right now. Treat her like a lost best friend or sibling, that needs a best friend and be that friend. It may not save your marriage, but really this has little to do with it at this time. You need to help her survive.<p>It may come to pass that your marriage maybe saved. It may come to pass that she will go through withdrawal and learn to love you again. <p>BUT WHAT WILL COME TO PASS; IS THAT YOU HAVE DONE THE RIGHT THING, THE HONORABLE THING. And that my friend is something that you can be proud of for the rest of your life.<p>B_P, help her, whether she deserves it or not.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

I agree , hlep her... do not even mention the marriage at this time... if I were you- be willing to listen, but that is about it... no thoughts from your side... except, I care, I want to help you... at least try to keep them minimal..<p>MY H made suicide mentions, and kind of like threats a few weeks back, but did not take drugs.. he was going to use his gun... <p>I talked to him on the phone a lot and told him all the things he had to be grateful for, and had to live for regardless of our marriage.. .our kids, his future... HIS LIFE... his stuff... ya know...<p>I even told him, I am okk with him leaving me if that is what he wants... now... I told him, I just want him to be happy... etc etc... IT WAS SCARY... to be on the phone with someone who wants to die... I wanted to come over, and he wanted me to, but not with kids... we have 2... he sd he was crying and very low... (I have never seen him cry).<p>Anyway, I know he is not one to make manipulative threats, though at the time it seems to be the case, but I wasn't risking it... I was there for him...<p>FOr him, as a human being.<p>Do the same, you already have... it will probably help the marriage, but I am sure you have no ulterior motive now, just her safety.<p>I know how hard it is... I am praying for you, and your w. I am sure she is sorry... OPray for both of you, let her know you are praying for her to feel better.<p>I am sorry you are going through this, but I think it is a sign that things are changing... which is probably good, [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>GOod luck and may GOd be with you in this difficult time.<p>Hugs, HONEY

Also, I told H I would help him get to counselor or call counselor at the time etc.. be sure to try your best to help her get into counseling and get PROFESSIONAL help now... Thanks, HONEY

Hi BP-<p>I can't say I've been in a situation just like yours, but one similar. <p>H and I had a talk one night (just over a month past Dday). I thought it went well and he seemed fine when he left. 15 minutes later he rang and said he had crashed the car and would I come help him. <p>Turns out he was driving too fast around a corner - a corner he knows *very* well - on icy roads. In retrospect, I wonder if he was attempting to do some serious damage. When he gets depressed, he often talks of driving really fast until he crashes. Thankfully, he was okay physically, but emotionally he was a wreck. <p>I went to him immediately and on my way there, promised myself there would be no talk of OW or our M. I would just be there for him and listen. As it turned out, I took him back to my flat and held him and hugged him while he cried and talked about his feelings. <p>Rock bottom? Probably (hopefully!) My situation is different from yours, in that my H's A was showing no signs of ending, but he did cry over and over that night "why am I destroying my life? What am I doing?" I saw (and still see) the whole thing as a turning point of sorts. I was able to be there for him when he needed me and he realised that. <p>So yes, help your wife as much as you can trying your hardest to keep her A and OM out of the picture. You are a good human being and will prove that to both of you. She needs you right now. Try and talk to her calmly and without judgement or other LB's. Let her know she needs serious help and you will do whatever you can to help her through this. <p>My thoughts are with you!
VE

Thank you for your words of support and for your advice. I can't tell you how much it means to me to have you people here to help right now.<p>Just Learning, I think I'm going to print your post and re-read it regularly. Thank you so much for helping me to see clearly what the real issue is here: my W's survival. Until I read your post I hadn't really realized just how irrelevant my marriage is right now. I want to do the honorable thing, and you're right-- I will be proud of it for the rest of my life. I hope you'll do me a favor and check my thread from time to time. I think I would really get a lot of value from your words of encouragement over the coming weeks.<p>honey, thank you for your prayers, and for sharing your experience with me. I also will pray for you and your H, and for his safety. As you suggest, I'm going to be the best listener I can for her. She has been seeing a therapist and likes her really well. She was examined by a psychiatrist at the hospital Saturday night-- the psychiatrast strongly recommended she take antidepressants. I'm going to encourage her to continue her therapy and to take the psychiatrist's advice seriously.<p>venusenvy, I'm so sorry for what you had to go through. After the other night, I wouldn't wish that kind of experience on anyone. You wrote that you saw the whole thing as a turning point. What has happened since then that makes you see it this way? Has your H's mental/emotional health improved? Has he begun to see the OW for who she really is? Has he begin to see you for who you really are?

Oops, I hit "Add Reply" too soon. I also wanted to give you all an update.<p>I sent W an email yesterday asking her to please let me know she's ok. I also wrote that I believe in her and I know she will be able to restore her self-respect and eventually be proud of who she is again.<p>Last night I had a Super Bowl party that I'd been planning for weeks. I wasn't really in the mood for a party, but after guests started arriving, I forgot about my problems and ended up having a great time. Actually, I think it was just what I needed.<p>This morning when I got to work, I had a voice mail message from her saying she's fine and thanking me for my friendship and support. I returned her call and we talked for 20 minutes or so. I told her that I'd spent the last 6 months trying to give her the space I'd thought she needed, but now I just wanted to be her friend. I told her to please call me anytime if she ever needed to talk. I even told her that I saved her a piece of the corn bread I made yesterday for the Super Bowl party. She seemed really happy about that.<p>I'm still unsure just how much I should involve myself in her life. She did tell me last summer she needs some time alone to figure out what she wants. Of course, she never really took that time, since she apparently spent most of the last 6 months with the OM.<p>It's so hard for me to figure out how to be "just friends" with her. Hopefully some of you can offer me your suggestions. Should I start initiating contact with her again on a regular basis? Or should I just make sure she knows she can call me when she wants? Should I try to do fun things with her like watch movies or tv? Should I ask her about her therapy or wait for her to bring it up? Most importantly, how will I know whether or not her emotional health is improving?<p>Thank you all so much for your support and advice. This forum is wonderful.<p>BP

B_P,<p>My recommendation is to ask her to dinner. Not a formal dinner but a place where you could enjoy a pleasant meal, perhaps a beverage [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] , and just see how she is holding up. I think you will have to make contact with her not the other way around.<p>My guesses on this are based that she wanted space and she had an affair, and she just tried to end her life. I doubt that she is very proud of anything she has done. So calling you for help will be very hard for her until she sees you in person.<p>My other suggestions is that when you go out to eat talk about her. How she feels. What she is doing. Perhaps, how your super bowl party went. Don't talk about OM, your marriage, how you feel, other than to reassure her that you prime concern is her not the marriage.<p>You need to be her friend by being her friend. Sounds really deep right? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] A friend goes and actively gets things going when the other is down or hurting. I think you should do that. Perhaps a movie and a snack, a little less need for interaction but some comfort as well.<p>Hang in there B_P. Make sure she survives this. You know you will.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Hi again, BP -<p>Your update sounds quite good, really. She recognised that you were there for her and thanked you. It really doesn't get much better than that, at this stage. And it sounds like you did the most excellent thing by letting her know you are there for her. Everyone else who has responded to you are right. Be her friend. As the ever-so-wise Bramblerose once said to me, "love her when she lets you. Play with her when you can. Be the person she fell in love with". It's up to you to decide who that person was/is. You won't get anywhere by appearing needy, but it sounds like you already know that. <p>I think you're doing a fab job! <p>You asked me a few questions, which I will try to answer for you -<p>You asked - "What has happened since then that makes you see it this way?"<p>His anger towards me (classic WS fogese anger - it was all my fault and I'm horrible) disappeared, literally, overnight. One minute I was the enemy, and the next minute I was "a truly good person" and he phoned me after the crash because "I wanted you there because you love me so much". Sounds like a turning point to me!<p>Then you asked - "Has your H's mental/emotional health improved?"<p>That has yet to be seen, really. He keeps talking about going into IC on his own, but makes no steps to do so and even admits to being afraid of it and making up excuses to not make an appointment. The month after D-day was extremely intense for both of us. He went through the usual gammut of emotions, but I think has since calmed down a lot. I know I can't force him into counselling, so I don't ask (much!)At this point in time, he is still "confused" and doesn't know what he wants. <p>Then you asked - "Has he begun to see the OW for who she really is? Has he begin to see you for who you really are?"<p>Well, as for the OW, I think he has only recently begun to see her for who she is. He said something to me the other night along the lines of "I'm having doubts about her" and then shut up really fast. I didn't push it. And yes, he has begun to see me for who I really am. After the crash, he called on me on another occassion when he got VERY drunk at a company Christmas party and lost his wallet. Venusenvy to the rescue again! He couldn't thank me enough. Still didn't stop him from being with OW during Christmas and New Year, but hey - the Mothership was hovering and I don't speak the alien's language!<p>So before I sign off for the night, my suggestions are to you...<p>1. Be her friend. Definitely. I quickly became my H's friend all over again after D-day. It was good for both of us. I realised how much I had forgotten the things I love and adore about him and he remembered that I'm not the evil witch he had decided I was. So remember what it was that you and your W used to do that you enjoyed together. Or try something new - try and find a new fun activity that you both can do together. But don't pressure. Suggest it, without any expectations, and if she responds positively, then grab that ball and run with it. If she's not responsive, then make sure she knows you're there for fun things, or a chat or a hug whenever she needs it. A friend said this to me the other day and I think it applies here - "Friends are like angels. They give you wings when your feet feel too heavy to lift off the ground." Can't beat it, really, can you?<p>2. If possible, go on dates with your W. H and I do this weekly (sometimes twice a week, if we're lucky). I initiate absolutely NO marriage, affair or OW talk and keep it light and airy. It works. He smiles and kisses me and even stays the night sometimes. <p>3.If you can't go on dates with her for whatever reason, then drop her a card or two in the mail. Say things in them like "just wanted you to know I'm thinking about you and love you. I'm always here for you." Ex: I bought a card for my H that had a picture of a man and woman hugging over a record player. I wrote on the inside "I was listening to your CD's last night and smiling. Then saw this card and smiled some more because it reminded me of us. I love you." It was simple, there was a connection and a memory involved and I know it wasn't a LB because he told me he appreciated it. <p>4. NO A TALK! If you speak to her on the phone, ask how she is doing and then try and find other things to talk about. For example; I always talk to my H about mutual friends, our families, things that relate to both of us (even dumb things, like a movie I may have seen that I think he would like). Be positive. Be happy. No one wants a whiney crying gas-bag on the phone with them when they depressed. Be her ray of sunshine. <p>Of course having said all this, my H is still knee-deep in his A, but *our* dynamics have changed dramatically. And the fact that he is still "confused" is nothing but a good sign. (if OW is so "awsome" then why hasn't he left me for her? Why is he still spending time with me and hugging me and kissing me and sleeping with me?) I've been told I do a great Plan A - not sure how I got there, but it's necessary and it helps. It will help YOU if you can be a Plan A God!!!! <p>Go for it, darlin. I can see from your posts that you've got it in you. And keep posting! We are all here for you!<p>love,
VE<p>(apologies for being so long-winded!!!!)

JL, you continue to provide me with new strength every time I read your words. Thank you for helping me to see things so clearly. I like your suggestions to ask her to dinner, to talk about her, and to "be her friend by being her friend." I've decided to try to think of her as being just like all of my other friends. I'm going to spend some time thinking about how I'd respond if one of my male friends went through a severe depression and needed my help and support.<p>VE, thank you for answering my questions so thoughtfully. It sounds to me like you are doing all the right things to give your marriage a chance. If it doesn't work, you should still be very proud of your efforts. You've given me inspiration to keep trying. It really felt great to read that you think I'm doing a "fab job"! :-)<p>Now for my latest update: I just talked to W on the phone for almost an hour. She called to tell me about a job interview she had today (she lost her job in December-- another source of her depression). I asked lots of questions and told her how happy I am (the truth) that the interview went well. She also told me about a couple of other job opportunities she's pursuing. She seemed to be in a pretty good mood and I encouraged her by telling her how I think it sounds like she's making great progress in her search. It's hard to believe this was the same person who tried to end her own life 2 days ago.<p>I ended our conversation by asking her if she'd like to get together for dinner and a funny movie (I thought she could use a few laughs). She agreed without hesitation, although she said she needs to get back to me to let me know when would be a good time. I think she's going to shoot for this weekend if possible. I intend to have fun with her, and I absolutely will not start any discussions about OR, OM, A, D, or any other of those nasty acronyms! :-)<p>I have one question tonight that I'd like to hear your thoughts on: how (if at all) do I incorporate my "new" friendship with W into my existing relationships with friends and family? Unfortunately, many of my friends and family know about her A, and I think it will be awkward for them to see her. I realize that this will be inevitable if we ever fix our M, but right now my focus is on being her friend. The thing is, however, that many of our most enjoyable times together were spent in a group setting with other friends and family members. My hunch is that I should spend at least a few weeks just getting used to being her friend again before trying to do anything that involves her and others. Does anyone have any advice for this situation?<p>Again, thank you very much for all of your encouragement, support, and advice. With help from all of you, I'm going to get through this.

B_P,<p>
I personally would go with your hunch. Don't introduce friends and family into the equation just yet. She may be up right now, but my bet is she is going to cycle for awhile. I am not into the pscyh business, but being so up after almost taking her life suggests that she may have some emotional issues such as bipolar. Something to watch.<p>As for down the road, I think that you need to consider that while you considered friends and family pleasurable she may not have. After all you are separated and she is in an affair. So perhaps doing some similar but different things would be good. Fewer triggers for you and for her.<p>The other thought is if she is that up then the OM may be back in the picture at least partially. I don't mean for this to be a downer, but keep your eyes open. Actually, it makes no difference whether he is or not in terms of your decision to be a good friend to her.<p>Just remember you wouldn't take your best friend around people that might think less of him/her while they are healing from some problem. I suspect it wouldn't be a good idea for her either.<p>Finally, comment for the night. If and when your relationship starts back up, your friends and family will be happy that you are happy. Your W may be a little uncomfortable, but remind her SHE is your first choice and she should be.<p>Must go. Good luck with the dinner date or whatever you decide to do. I get the impression that she hasn't been that willing to see you in the recent past. Perhaps she is indeed seeing things differently. I hope so.<p>God Bless,<p>JL<p>PS: Just remember no matter how happy she acts, she is very very fragil. Treat her like she is.

JL, thanks for sticking with me and continuing to give me good advice. I don't have any news today, as I did not speak with W. I think I will call her tomorrow evening if she doesn't contact me by then.<p>I did take some time today to do a little online research about the symptoms of bipolar disorder. I agree with you that her behavior could be indicative of a bipolar condition. However, I also realize that her experience on Saturday was, in a twisted sort of way, a D-Day. I remember too well the emotional rollercoaster I rode for about a month and a half after my own D-Day last summer. Nevertheless, I will pay attention to her mood swings and I may encourage her to discuss them with her therapist.<p>I agree that her positive state of mind might indicate the OM being back in the picture. Actually, I didn't believe him for a second when he told me that they were done seeing each other. But, as you said, he is irrelevant in terms of my friendship with W.<p>I would like to share something with all of you, and maybe it will provide some hope to those of you in despair. Since W left last summer, I wanted nothing to do with being "just friends". I felt that she needed to show remorse and humility in order to deserve my friendship. Maybe I was even right about that, but in the end it's not really important what she deserves. With JL's help, I realized that she needs my friendship now more than she ever has. I made up my mind to offer my friendship to W out of concern for her well-being. However, after just a couple of days, I find myself excited about this "new" friendship. For the first time since she left, I feel like I can listen to her, talk to her, have fun with her, and be there for her, without expecting her to beg for my forgiveness. I plan to spend a fun evening with her soon, and I'm really looking forward to it. It is a great feeling, and I recommend it.<p>BP

B_P,<p>The ode thing about all of this and most of the stories on this site is that the WS rarely apologizes (if at all) until the marriage has been rebuilt. Harley points out that in his experience it is not uncommon for the WS to NEVER apologize. However, I think that is not truely how it goes.<p>They may never apologize verbally, but they obviously have admitted they were wrong by coming back into the marriage. Actions speak much louder than words. <p>In this case it is your actions that need to speak. Call her regularly and check on her. Don't let "a few" days go by. Just call asker how she is doing, how she is feeling, and then close by telling her you are glad she is feeling better, if that is the case or offer any assistance if she is not.<p>Contact, B_P, is the key here. You may learn to like her again, then you can worry about loving her and forgiving her. By the way, forgiveness is NOT a gift to her. It is a gift to yourself. Once you come to the point you can forgive her, YOU will feel a tremendous load lifted from you. You will have finally put down your expectations and just allow the actions and events to dictate to you how this should go.<p>
So call her or email her regularly, everyday while she is recoverying.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

JL, I'm going to take your advice and call or email her daily, at least until she indicates that I should stop, or I feel that she's truly ok. I appreciate the point you made about forgiveness; it's really easy to fall into the trap of feeling like forgiveness is something we do for the WS.<p>I'm struggling with something else today, and I could use some strength and support from this forum. The issue is how to handle W's dishonesty as I try to be her friend and help her through this difficult time. I'll explain why I'm suddenly struggling:<p>I mentioned in a previous post that we were going to get together for dinner and/or a movie, and that she needed to check her schedule. Well, she emailed me today. She's busy tonight, tomorrow night, all day and night on Saturday, Sunday morning, and Sunday evening. This is normal for her (her extrememly active life contributed a lot of stress to our M, IMO). She wrote that on Friday, she'd like to stay home and "lay low" so she'll be well-rested for Saturday. Now this is totally unlike her. I'm not sure she stayed home to "lay low" on a Friday night once during the last 2 years we were together. So of course, my hunch is that she's planning to see the OM on Friday. Historically, I've been amazed at how accurate my hunches usually are when it comes to her dishonesty; maybe she's bad at lying, or maybe I just know her too well.<p>Anyway, JL and I have agreed that the OM and her feelings for him are irrelevant to me right now. The problem is that I'm hurt by the idea that she might still be lying to me. I tell myself to be strong, don't take it personally, and accept that she's probably not strong enough to be honest with me right now. But it's hard. Honestly, I think the worst part about D-Day was knowing how much she'd lied-- that was worse than knowing about the A itself. I could be totally wrong about Friday, but what do I do if she keeps telling me things that feel like lies to me? Do I confront her? Or do I just accept the lies as part of the hurt, damaged condition she's in? Should I reassure her that she can tell me ANYTHING without fear that she'll lose my friendship? Also, how do I stop my imagination from making me believe she's lying when I have very little basis to think so?<p>Please help me with your support, reassurance, and advice. I'm hurting some today, but I know I can get through it with your help.<p>Thanks, and have a good day.<p>BP<p>P.S. BTW, she did say she's available for a few hours on Sunday afternoon, so I think I'll invite her over for a movie.

BP,<p>I had a nice long post ready and lost it. The machine decided it lost my password. I will attempt to repeat part of it.<p>Don't worry about the lying. You don't know if she will just stay home Fri., stay home with OM, actually go out with friends, or go out with OM. It is irrelevent. The point is you cannot see her Fri.<p>Of much more significance to me is the fact that she seems to be very very busy and from what you said she has always been that way. If she was too busy to spend time with you during the marriage, and is too busy to see you now, then you are going to have to ask yourself is this the kind of marriage I want.<p>I realize that the lying hurt you on D-day. Most of the BS's here will and have said the same thing. But, the lying is to be expected right now. I have little doubt that she and OM are back in contact. I am sure that he has convinced her that he was just showing W some mercy. I mean how could a good upstanding, honest, caring, man not show mercy to the W he is cheating on? [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Lying comes with the fog BP. So don't worry about it. Worry about the time.<p>If she didn't have much time for you before the A and she doesn't have time for you two to get together now, then why would you want to be married to her?? LOVE doesn't make a successful marriage it is necessary and you apparently have it for your W, but it is not enough.<p>It seems to me that if you do see her but it is only rarely, if you won't come to a point where this makes sense to you. There are two things to consider.<p>One, this getting together is to help her if you can, but it is more about you deciding if this is the woman you want to be married to. NOT the woman you married. You are going to have to decide at some point.<p>Two, it is for her to see the changes in you.<p>My guess is that the times or few times she makes time for you will tell you more and lead you to make the correct decision. So don't sweat the lying. THe question is: even within the lies could you really be married to this woman, much less within the context of the truth that you need to make your decision. Do you see what I mean?<p>Finally, I think your first meeting ought to be on neutral ground with a definite time span set out. She will and is probably sceptical about how you will act with her. Go out for late lunch, or some dessert perhaps a movie and then take her home.<p>This is a baby steps approach. She will need to become comfortable and so will you. Remember this is for you to decide what you want to do.<p>Hope this helps.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

(((((((((bp)))))))<p>I can't really add anything further to what JL has said - I agree with it all. <p>And yes, lying is part of the equation, unfortunately. I found this out and accepted it (to a degree) very early on. I found that when I questioned my WH, I was lied to and it hurt even more. My solution? Stop asking! I assume the worst at all times, but continute to think positively (if that makes sense?). For example: if I'm wondering whether or not my H is with OW on any given weekend, I just assume he is. If I ask him, he may lie anyway and then I end up obsessing over whether or not he's lying and then it consumes my thoughts and drives me crazy. What a way to spend a weekend, eh? <p>So instead, I assume they are together and then spend some time meditating and thinking positively. I usually imagine my H and I putting the OW in a boat and pushing her out to sea and watching her disappear into the horizon. I find it helps me a great deal.<p>I know it stinks. I know you didn't ask for any of this, but you have a choice in how to react to it all. And if you love her, then do the best Plan A you can and be there for her when she needs you. And YES, contact her and ask how she's doing. It's all about the love and support, my friend!<p>I may not post to all your questions, but I am here reading! You're in my thoughts!<p>VE

JL wrote: "I have little doubt that she and OM are back in contact. I am sure that he has convinced her that he was just showing W some mercy. I mean how could a good upstanding, honest, caring, man not show mercy to the W he is cheating on? "<p>LOL. Thanks, JL, that was priceless.<p>VE, I needed that hug. Thanks for thinking of me and continuing to read my posts. You made a great suggestion to stop asking, always assume the worst, but think positive. You know, I kinda unconsciously did that during the first weeks of our separation, and it helped me to detach. I'm going to put this solution to work again and stop worrying about her dishonesty.<p>JL, you are right to question whether I'd want to be married to someone who has so little time for me. Actually, there are a lot of reasons why my intellect tells me that she's not the right person for me. My heart totally disagrees. But I'm not going to worry about that right now. I'm taking the advice you gave me a few days ago, and worry about her survival for now. In time, I will re-evaluate whether or not we can find a way to blend our lifestyles into a successful marriage.<p>She has admitted that she went overboard with her activities, and that her schedule has not been conducive to a healthy relationship. In fact, it was a snowball effect: the more strained our relationship became over the years, the more hours she worked and the more activities she joined; then I became more lonely and frustrated and our relationship became more strained. I suppose if we can build a healthy friendship then perhaps the snowball effect can be reversed. I have often dreamed of a time when we share many enjoyable leisure activities together (like when we first met). But again, for now I just want to be there for her, since I think she really needs a friend.<p>I feel better now than I did a few hours ago. Thanks, JL and VE for helping me out. Now I'd like to ask a question that's crossed my mind a few times over the past couple of days:<p>What should I do if W makes a romantic gesture toward me? That's probably pretty unlikely, but I want to be prepared in case it happens. I'm not sure I'd have to power to resist, but I know it could be very unhealthy for me right now (my head vs. my heart again). First off, she's not emotionally healthy and I wouldn't want to "stir the pot". Secondly, I feel that my own emotional health has been improving slowly since she left, and I think I'd be making myself vulnerable to a major setback. How have any of you handled this situation? Did you regret your actions? What would you do in my situation? Thanks in advance for your feedback.<p>I left a message on W's answering machine telling her I was thinking of her. She's at a rehearsal tonight, so I probably won't speak to her. Perhaps I'll try calling her during the day tomorrow.<p>Once again, thank you all for your support and advice.<p>Take care,
BP

BP,<p>You said <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> actually,there are a lot of reasons why my intellect tells me that she's not the right person for me. My heart totally
disagrees. But I'm not going to worry about that right now. I'm taking the advice you gave me a few days ago, and worry about her survival for now. In time, I will re-evaluate whether or not we can find a way to blend our lifestyles into a successful marriage.<hr></blockquote><p>You got the picture BP. That is why you shouldn't worry about the lies. You will re-evaluate when the time comes.<p>As for her being romantic, I would guess (and I mean guess) that you might want to diplomatically side step it. It depends on what you mean, but I would say that if she wants to hold hands or make body contact in that way, I would be inclined to do it. She may well be seeking solace and general support.<p>I will await to hear what the experts on this say. If you are meaning sex, then I would definitely bow out, but that depends on what YOU are comfortable with.<p>You'll do fine. You are getting yourself together and I think you are realizing that you are the one in the drivers seat in many ways. So be charitable, be kind, and see what life brings you.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

I just talked to W on the phone. If I had any doubts about whether or not she truly needed my support right now, those doubts have been eliminated. She's hurting terribly, and has very few people to turn to. I'm going to do the best I can for her.<p>She tells me that she was up until 5am last night talking with OM, and that he essentially broke up with her. She says he told her that right now the prospect of trying to work things out with his own W is more attractive to him than trying to build a future with my W.<p>If you read my thread on the D/D forum, you may remember that I had decided to get a D, and I met with W several weeks ago to discuss the idea of mediation. She told me today that OM knew about our meeting, and was very upset and stressed that whole night. She also said that she's been feeling a little sad ever since our meeting and that this has bothered the OM. Finally, she said that he's very unhappy about the way she and I have become closer since the events of last weekend. For all of these reasons, he has apparently decided to end their relationship.<p>She was crying for almost the entire conversation. It's obvious to me that she's devastated right now. I offered her my sympathy and support. She said I was probably glad to hear that they were breaking up. I replied that yes, a part of me was glad, but only a small part; mostly I was sad to see her hurting so badly. In fact, I even said that I'd rather things had worked out for them if that would have made her happy in the long run. Finally, I pointed out to her that she had had a successful job interview on Monday (she was invited back for a 2nd interview next week), and to me that showed enormous strength considering all she'd been through. I said I admired her strength, I knew she could get through this, and I'd help her however I can.<p>I still have my doubts as to whether or not the A is really over. OM may just be bluffing and, if he is, it might even work. If he's not bluffing, he still might change his mind, especially when things get difficult with his M (which is sure to happen). The good news from my point of view is that at the moment I really don't care what happens with him. I'm glad that W opened up to me today, and I truly believe I will help her survive.<p>Thanks to all of you for giving me the strength I need so much right now.

BP,<p>Nice job. You know even if you do decide to continue the D, still help her. I think you will.
I also think that as your W recovers her self, that the OM will again find her attractive. Time will tell there, but in many ways it doesn't matter does it???<p>You are doing very well. I know that some of this still hurts, but you are doing it the right way.<p>God Bless,<p>JL