This is my first time here on this site...I dont know alot of the lingo, so plz bear with me...My husband of 5 years is lying to me, I know some of the truth, but not enough to call him on it. I know he lies about his whereabouts during the day, and am pretty sure its with another woman. he refuses to tell me the truth, I think bcuz he feels it wl hurt me. But nothing can be worse that not knowing what going on!! I think im going crazy bcuz he absolutly wont tell me whats happening and my doubts are overwhelming me...he has a history of lies with me, most of which I thought were behind us, but I guess i was wrong. Somebody plz respond to this, I'm not coping well here. <p> Last summer, I learned he was carrying on a chat line friendship with a few women (3 that I know about) I spoke with these women and learned that he only met each once, and for coffee or lunch. Always during the day (his job gives him much freedom) Nothing romantic or physical happened in person, but their chats back and forth were quite sexual..He denied any of the meetings, (in fact he denied even having the cell phone he was chatting on!!) until I found the phone, pretended to be him, and chatted with these ladies myself. Once I confronted him with my information, he had no choice but to fess up. He sd it was an innocent flirtation, where he could be anyomus and have some harmless fun. He sd he got caught up in the chatting and wanted to meet them in person to put a face to the name. He said he got addicted and didnt know when to stop. In fact he was thankful that I discovered the truth and said he learned his lesson and would never do it again. I decided to stay with him 1) bcuz I loved him (still do) 2)I believed that he would stop and that he truly regretted his actions. and 3) because we had a 7 month old son to consider.<p>The last several months have been very difficult. My ability to trust him has never really come back, our intimacy level is nonexistant. But I thought the new year would be promising because, after all we were still together.

Last week I got our bank stmt, and found a jewellery store purchase that I sure as hell didnt make, and I questioned him on it. He said he has no idea what its about and to call the bank. Later last week I found a receipt for a Coffee shop out of town for a day in which he was supposed to be at the Doctors all day, gain, he flat out denies being there. He can give me no explanation of how the receipt got there and says I am putting him under a microscope. I advised him that given the history, I have every right to feel that he is lying again. <p>Hold on, it gets better....I decided to take it upon myself to call one of the women he met for coffee in the summer, it wsnt her that he was meeting, but she told me that he is still on the chat lines regularly (I destroyed his cell phone last summer so I guess he bought another) and she would help me find out a little more (she hates him and now is my ally!!) <p>I havent told him that I know that about the cell phone yet and that he is chatting again (or still) , and its taking everything in me to keep it in. He wont tell me the truth anyway. <p>I dont know what to do here, I want my family to stay together and I feel that he does too. But he finds this double life exciting and me boring.
(I am a little domestic these days, but new motherhood and the overwhelming responsibilty it entails has taken me over)<p>Could someone please repond, let me know that Im not alone here because I really think Im losing my mind.<p>[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: scared to be single again ]</p>

Im not great with advice, so hang in there, someone will follow u up soon.<p>It certainly sounds like foul play Im sorry. Read as much as u can on this site by Dr Harley for advice that has direction and purpose. Youll pick up the lingo as you read and post. But sit tight because it sounds like youre in for a tough ride ahead... make sure you continue to post here, you will find lots of encouragement and prayer support. i feel 4 you and hope its not wat u think, however i will pray for you as God brings you to my mind. Wish I could have a coffee with you right now!<p>Dancer

Hi there;
People here can help you and listen to what you have to say but they need more specific info. Like how do you know he is up to something?(brief past history would help) I know women have this built in thing that they know we men lie(I lied once to GF and she knew it. I regretted it ever since)Anyways please tell us your story and we'll try to help.
231 [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Sorry, sent again by accident<p>[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Dancer ]</p>

Hi there,<p>There's a lot of material on this site, so my first piece of advice is to read ALL of it. Every last shred you can. Knowledge is power!<p>If you can confirm that an affair is going on, it will be an important step. Until you can get that out, it will be somewhat difficult to move in the direction that makes the most sense. There are some options you have, such as simply sitting down with your husband and talking, along the lines of, "honey, it seems like you're going through some difficult times right now... why don't you talk to me so I can help you." BUT, sounds like that isn't working for you!! Others will have some more suggestions, undoubtedly.<p>One thing you can do right now, without even knowing if it's an affair or not, though, is to enact what we here call "Plan A". Again, read up on it. It's about making specific changes in you, that he might notice. Personally, if I were a wayward spouse (WS), and was keeping it a secret still, and I saw my betrayed spouse (BS) starting to act differently - like Plan A defines - I'd really start to wonder what was going on! It might be enough to make me open up if approached in a "Plan A-ish" way. (Hmm, then again I'm nowhere near being a WS right now, so that's all speculation!) Something to consider.<p>[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: J.R. ]</p>

I saw your other post, and I will write more to you later... I am sorry you are in this situation, I was there a while back and it was driving me crzy... too! I was being lied to... go slow, go to the book store, and buy surviving an affair, and if you can his needs her needs, by the harleys.. get to reading..<p>Read all the threads all over this site.. you will find a bunch that realate to what youar e going through and they help! <p>I have to go since I now work 70+ hours a week.... I will give you some short and concise advice.<p>DOnt force him to talk to you right now.
Reflect
and attemp t to plan a the best you can, you can read about plan a on this site... go for it.<p>Take care of you.
read surviving an affair.<p>He may not be having an affiar, but probably is.. dont panic, you can survive and get over it... I know it is shocking.<p>go to the doctor and get on antidepressants..<p>schedule an individula counseling session for you, and do not even bother telling him (just my take, but tell him if you want... good plan a would not be telling him for now)... ??? who knows, just my 2 cents.<p>OK, you will be ok,.. do something nice for you.<p>I am sorry you are here, and I am sorry he is lying... you are not crzy, we have been there... weekends are slow here... and I would post more, but I have to go to work and I have 2 kids... one standing here demanding I get off the computer!<p>Hugs, you will be ok, read everything.<p>HONEY

Thanks for your responses.. Everyone here seems so nice, and I dont feel quite so alone anymore.
I see so many references to Plan A. But I cant seem to find it anywhere in here!!<p>I really hope i can, because I'm a girl in need of a plan at the moment.<p>In reponse to Honey, I wish I could take antidepressants but I'm pregnant. I forgot to add that in my posting. Its just that my mind is elsewhere right now.<p>Thanks for the words of comfort everyone.

Go to the main page of this site, and click on basic concepts and start your reading there, there should be plan a info there... also there is a thread or area of threads on the discussion board on plan a , I think this is under infidelity... if you can't get out.. order the book online or from this site... I think you can.. SUrviving an affair... I know you can order it online.<p>the counseling section from the main page refers you to an area that can show you how to find a good counselor... also you can call the marriage builders office, the counseling center... number is on that page.. and ask for a referral to a counselor in your area that knows these concepts...<p>I know how hard it is... I am 4 months into it... and I am getting better, I have 2 boys, and this is the biggest nightmare of my life... I am not in recovery at all, but weeding through the fields of confusion....<p>Go to your obgyn, and explain the situation, ask if you can get a better diet to help ease stress and depression, not saying you aren't already, but there may be foods that could help... <p>Also, there might be an anti d you could take while preg... just ask your doc, you never know... maybe not, but maybe, it would be worth it, if you could... <p>I know the antid's have helped a lot!<p>Keep reading, some of the posters at the bottom of their threads have stuff about links to read for newcomers , etc... I am sure someone will post back to you... also you can post a question like what do I do, new here...? and you will probably get more responses from more experienced people... you have come to a good area of the board to get feedback, there are some great folks out here. with way more experience than me...<p>gotta go get ready for work, boo hoo.<p>I hope you get to feeling better.<p>HONEY

Hello,<p>Here is a link to Plan A, Plan B in case you still need help. <p>Plan A<p>Plan A is not to sell yourself out to an unfaithful H but to take a close look at ways you can become better at meeting H's basic important needs that might not have been met. No matter how your relationship turns out, Plan A will help YOU be a stronger more confident person. While you are looking into what your H may be involved with, take time to thoroughly read the basic concepts, the Q&A columns, and the articles on the main site. It will really help.<p>I'm so sorry that you have reason to question your H's honestly. Lack of trust caused by lying fundamentally undermines any relationship. People will provide you support.<p>Best wishes,
Estes

Welcome to Marriagebuilders. You'll find a lot of people here who can share common experiences with you, and help you through your grief.<p>I found it took me quite a few weeks to get the information on this website sunk in some. It's a LOT of great advice, including plans, but is so overwhelming at first. Don't be afraid to ask questions whenever you feel the need to.<p>It is true that you should be moving into plan A. I recall when I first came here, I had a heck of a time figuring out what plan A was. But within a few months (yes months), I realized that plan A was all about me. To become the person I should be. The best wife my H could ever want! A huge part of that was NOT giving in to everything he wanted, but to become the me I lost somewhere along the road.<p>The denial and the lying on your H's part is totally normal [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] . I know that doesn't make it any easier to deal with at first, but trust me when I tell you that in your own time, you'll be able to jest about the oh-so-typical phrases, lies, and words that come out of the mouths of a WS (wayward spouse). [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I congratulate you in wanting to work on your marriage. It is NOT an easy road to take.<p>My advice for you is to check out the Emotional Needs sections on the site, and print out the EN questionnaire. If your H will fill in the answers for you, then great. You will have a much better idea of what to work on in your plan A. If he won't, then when you have the basic concepts understood more, then fill it out on your own for him. Be as brutally honest when answering when you can! No sugar-coating allowed! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Keep us posted and come here and vent as much as you need to. It's MUCH better to do that on here than to your H (although he does deserve some - it's NOT the way to get your M back on track).<p>Take care,
Karen

I JUST BLEW IT!!!<p>Moments ago, I confronted my H about the lies I know he is telling me. He still completly denies it, and now Im wondering if its him who is lying, or my new ally (see my orig posting). She really hates him, and may be lying to me to get to him.
But if that the case she is messing with my family and future. I dont know who to believe now!! <p>I shouldnt have said anything to H but I just couldnt hold it in anymore. What a horrible mess I've made. <p>We had made an appt for counselling, but now he refuses to go. Says he wants to leave bcuz our problems are never going to go away.

Take a breather and CALM DOWN!!! <p>YOU haven't made a horrible mess here. Yes, you have contributed to the problems in the marriage, but you did not do anything to deserve being lied to, and betrayed!!! Your H has taken the cowardly approach, and instead of looking for happiness within himself, he has chosen to look for it outside of his M. That is NOT YOUR FAULT!!!<p>There isn't much of anything you can say or do that your H won't find some fault in. He's looking for any excuse he can find to rationalize his behaviours. DON'T GIVE HIM ANY EXCUSES!!!! It's so... damn hard to do... but it CAN be done. You need to calm down (and that's even harder with pregnancy hormones raging - I've been there, done that... only 1 yr ago. I was pregnant with our twins sons at the time I discovered H's A's. They were due on March 14th, but I went in for an emergency c-section on February 17th due to majorly increased blood pressure).<p>Vent on here. Do not talk to this OW you have confided in online. You can only trust YOU and YOUR ACTIONS right now (and of course us here at MB who can totally empathize with you now).<p>Karen

I have been Plan A;ing for a day now. This is imposible, I'm a talker, H is not. He is still in complete denial mode. <p>If I bring up anything, or ask a basic question, he gets upset, still says I'm putting his life and actions under a microscope and threatens to leave. Shld I go to plan B now?? Because living like this is too hard.

This is where plan A being about YOU comes into play. True, it is very difficult, but it does get easier, once your new actions become a habit.<p>As difficult as it is to do, you should stop probing him with questions. That won't help him to open up to you. It will only make him withdraw more. Once you are able to create a safe environment for him, it's amazing how he will open up to you, without you even needing to ask questions. You may also reach the point where you can ask him questions, and he'll give you honest answers. But now is NOT that time.<p>If you want to do your best to save your marriage, you have to become the best wife your husband could ever wish for. Again, that doesn't mean you have to be his personal doormat.. it means it's time for you to be the best you, you can be.<p>What sort of activities were you involved in when you two first met? Are you still doing them? (art classes, exercise, schooling, hobbies of all sorts, etc). If not, why not? You were once an independant person. It's one of the traits that attracted your husband to you. Find her, slowly, and take her back. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>It is far too soon to move to plan B. The purpose behind plan A is to create as safe an environment as you can. To show your H what he's got in your M. You need to build up your self esteem and confidence again. Plan A will help you to do that. But it takes time. The Harley's recommend (on average) a 6 month plan A. But some on here disagree with that. Some feel shorter plan A's are in order, while others think that much longer plan A's work. It depends on your individual situation. My personal opinion on plan A, is that you should stick to it for a MINIMUM of 3 months.<p>The only way plan B can have the best chance to work is if it's implemented AFTER a GREAT (or pretty good [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ) plan A. A quick summary is this: Your H has X months of seeing what your M should have been like all along. Assuming he continues to waffle on the topic of reconciliation, once you reach YOUR limit of plan A (which is when you find that you have almost lost all of your love for your H), then you move into plan B. All of those EN's you've been fulfilling are gone. That allows him to see what he's missing out on. Ideally, he'll miss you and your M, and decide to work on reconciling.<p>I hope some of this has helped you. Keep on posting with your vents and questions. I'm sure others will chime in more the more you can ask specific questions.<p>Karen

You sound like me!!! I have been back and forth on this site for 2+years. It is a great place to talk about your problems. <p>The only hard thing about this is, I also really don't have any hard proof what my H is doing. It is all lies about where he is what he is doing and w/whom. I do have a letter from two years ago stating that he his having an affair w/someone at work and that he is making me and my kids look like fools. Anyway, h denied anywrong doing said someone is trying to set him up..BLablabla. Since then his lying is getting worse. Check out my last post under camjon, how many chances. I think we are in the same boat!!!<p>You will find some strength here at this site!!
Camjon

Help me...Im losing my mind here...Just found the phone, confronted H on it...he had no choice but to admit it, says he met another woman when he was supposed to be at the doctors all day (I knew it) I want to kill myself. Trying to keep it together but its so hard, I kicked him, scratched his face, sprayed Windex at him.. What is happening to me?? Im losing it. This is the only place I can go here. Hes still here, started packing his bags, but had to stop cuz he knows he cant leave the baby here with me in this state of mind. God help me.... I cant cope. He wants to me to have an abortion (im 10 weeks pregnant) I dont know if I can do this, but want to keep my Marriage. I think he wants me to terminate this pregnancy cuz he doesnt believe me that I would do it. Then he can confirm its done and be with her.... <p>He swears he didnt sleep with her, I want to beleive him. I dont know what to do..<p>Please respond somebody.

update.....He says hes worthless, and a lying piece of ****. But Im the one who feels worthless, otherwise, why would he go and sneak around behind my back. The extent of his coverup is unbelivable. He hasnt left yet, but I know that what he wants..<p>Ive tried to tell him that we wl work it out. We have an appt for counselling on Monday (has been scheduled for a long time) Says he needs counselling on his own, so he cld work out his own problems... He says that bcuz I havent touched him in so long that I dont love him anymore. Thats not true. It may be true that I dont initiate sex, but I do initiate hugs and cuddles, It just never gets any farther, i guess bcuz he feels I dont want it. Its not true.<p>I dont want to lose my family. My husband means everything to me, and Im worthless without him.

I'm very close to my H too and would feel terrible to lose him. Right now is the worst time to go through something like this. I needed my H so much when I was preg. But one thing I want to make clear...You Are NOT Worthless!!! No matter how you feel or what someone else says or does. You are a mother and that is the most awesome job in the world. If you feel it, say it and we can lift you up. But don't believe it. God loves you so much that He sent Jesus to die for you and no worthless person would get that kind of gift. That means everyone has worth, even your H with his lying ways. And you can take anti-depressants if necessary. You can choose based on your baby's health or based on your state of mind. You do have to weigh it out. I took Wellbutrin and Zoloft during my pregnancy with my son. He is the healthiest happiest little boy. I know there have been risks associated with these drugs but they are considered safe. If you can't take care of your marriage, son, or yourself, then you need something. As with any drug, you must notify your doc of any effects you experience. But, it might be worth talking to doc about. I'm praying for you.

I just read your next to last post. I'm so sorry that this is all happening right now. That's an old LB (love buster) I used to have, acting out in rage. But, Zoloft has helped me with that. It was a result of my anger (not just surface anger). Counselling would be good right now. Not to justify your actions but I believe you were trying to protect yourself. It came out very inappropriately. The best thing is to resolve not to do that again. Next, get to counselor and doctor ASAP. Get off internet now and call the doc. Try to get in today. He/She will give you a little counseling and be a shoulder, I'm sure. I think at 12 weeks they told me it was safe to start on Zoloft.

Update...he left me. <p>At first we had a good talk, he seemed to be opening up to me, sd he wanted to tell me the whole truth. I belived him.
Then the screaming started again (both of us)
He got really drunk and drove to his mothers house at the other end of the city (I live in Toronto) he arrived safely but sd he cant remember getting there, was seeing double the whole time.
I spoke to his mother and she is disgusted wth him. But of cource in the long run, she will always stand by him. While I thought I gt the whole truth from him, I just found out another lie ( a whopper )
It seems this has been a wake up call for me. Im horribly sad, and so angry but I know w'll get thru this.
I dont want to be with him anymore, I still love him, but the extent he has gone to to lie to me is too much. There is no way he can love me and have done these things to me.