Well, I'm looking for some help from all you veterans out there. See my signature below for BG. Have been Plan A'ing for 8 weeks now-fail off the wagon usually at least once a week. WW has really cut down on the internet contact w OM. Don't know if that's beacuse she is actually seeing him more or not. Anyway, I'm looking for a translation of some of my wife's statements this weekend:<p>1)Sat morning- woke up and told WW about dream I had where I kissed another woman and it was pretty bad. Told WW I can't imagine what it would be like to have to take off my wedding ring and start dating again. She turned to me in bed, hugged me, and said "I don't want that to ever happen. We are a family. All of us." I said "Right, we are an US". She said , "Yeah, The Story of Us" (remember that movie with Bruce Willis-they reconcile at end)<p>TRANSLATION, PLEASE???<p>2)Sat afternoon- I LB'd by bringing up A-she got angry-I aksed if she had a timetable about a decision-she said no-I said I hate her having total control of my life-she said "Bingo, maybe for once you aren't in control of things and you can't stand it". Resolved argument by her saying again that "she will take care of it-just leave her alone-stop smothering-stop pressuring-stop trying to box her in a corner"<p>TRANSLATION-PLEASE???<p>3)Sat eve - We went to Party at house of my boss (very fancy-very rich). Wife spent most of evening talking to other wives about kids and our history-telling stories-etc. I hung with men-shooting pool. Later-other wives told me "(Wife) has been telling us all about your family. What beautiful daughters and granddaughters you have. You are very lucky." On way home, WW said she had a great time, and we laughed and joked.<p>TRANSLATION-PLEASE????<p>4)Sat nite-Sun morn- we were both tipsy sat nite, WW undressed in front of me-I kissed her- she started to melt and kiss back-then pushed me away. Got into bed-tried again-same thing. We went to sleep. Sun morning-I woke her up with kisses-she laid in my arms for a few minutes-I stroked her hair-very intimate. Then she said "I don't think we should make love. Our relationship started with sex 23 years ago. I don't want it to be about that". (remember, no S for last 6 months)<p>TRANSLATION-PLEASE??<p>Then I told her how hard it is to live with this pain. I said that maybe it would be easier on both of us if I moved out of the house. She said "NO-I don't want you to do that." I asked her if she was sure and she said "Yes-I'm very sure. Don't move out."<p>TRANSLATION-PLEASE (Especially in light of fact that OM has twiced asked me in separate conversations if I ever considered separating from WW and moving out. And then I lurked in a Divorce chat room where he was talking about A and told someone that he has asked my WW to separate so they could be together more. But WW said no, she wouldn't hurt the kids. And OM said he told her that if she separated he could get to know kids)<p>5) Sun at church- There was a notice about a married couples retreat in Maryland, end of April. I jokingly said we should go. WW said she thought that would be a great idea. I asked her point blank if she really wanted to go and she said "Yes, I do." Sun nite I asked her if she was serious about going on couples retreat because if so, I will pay deposit next week. She said yes. I said, "OK, you know that you are making a commtiment here, right?" She said "I know".<p>TRANSLATION-PLEASE?????<p>This entire post should be read with understanding that my WW has said nothing directly about her feelings for OM changing or her A ending. And that she is probably going to spend day with him today, as she apparently does every Mon after weekend apart.

Boppo, your wife is TELLING you what her issues are and giving you a chance to listen to her and to work on it [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Obviously sex is a big problem for her - and its one of the most common misunderstandings between men and women. If you can read His Needs Her Needs, read the chapters on Affection and Sexual Fulfillment.<p>Most women, when they feel loved, appreciated, and get enough nonsexual affection, will be quite happy to reciprocate with sex. But without those things...they feel used. <p>Now you have something to work on with your Plan A.<p>No more relationship talks - OK? She isn't ready. She is telling you that too. She will do it on HER time table, not yours. Yes it sucks, but thats the way it is. To demand that she do things in your way, in your time, is a selfish demand.<p>The rest of it translates to the fact that she isn't done with your marriage yet, and your plan A is pretty critical right now.<p>That she is not willing to separate, even under pressure from OM, and that she is willing to go to a couples seminar is a great sign.<p>Just make sure that when you to the seminar, you don't focus on how she has to stop the affair and how she has to change - the focus should be on how you can be a better spouse. How can you meet your wife's needs and really truly listen to her and show her how much you love her - as SHE understands it.<p>Another book that might help you alot since you are still living together is The 5 Love Languages by Chapman. I can't recommend this book more highly. Figure out what your wife's love language is, and do those things. Thats what she needs right now.

Bramble-thanks for your comments.<p>You wrote:<p>[Most women, when they feel loved, appreciated, and get enough nonsexual affection, will be quite happy to reciprocate with sex. But without those things...they feel used.]<p>That hurt, because I know she is having PA with OM, even though she told me last week he is not "making love to her now".
You then wrote:<p>[No more relationship talks - OK? She isn't ready. She is telling you that too. She will do it on HER time table, not yours. Yes it sucks, but thats the way it is. To demand that she do things in your way, in your time, is a selfish demand.]<p>So is there any point where I ask for a decision? Or do I anticipate that she can continue seeing this loser as long as she feels like it-with me giving all and getting crumbs back. Is that the true Plan A? If so, yes it sucks. But it is worth if the end result is my wife coming back.<p>You also wrote:<p>[The rest of it translates to the fact that she isn't done with your marriage yet, and your plan A is pretty critical right now.]<p>Wow! That's a great translation. Any other opinions?<p>[ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: Boppo57 ]</p>

bump

Boppo...<p>I'm actually 'teaching' today... can't write an in-depth post except to say<p>Go BrambleRose!!!<p>I will read over your post more thoughtfully and reply later this afternoon (California time [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] )...<p>Cali

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>:
Well, I'm looking for some help from all you <p>1)Sat morning- woke up and told WW about dream I had where I kissed another woman and it was pretty bad. Told WW I can't imagine what it would be like to have to take off my wedding ring and start dating again. She turned to me in bed, hugged me, and said "I don't want that to ever happen. We are a family. All of us." I said "Right, we are an US". She said , "Yeah, The Story of Us" (remember that movie with Bruce Willis-they reconcile at end)<hr></blockquote><p>Cakewoman... I want family. I want OM. My H would say to me that even if we divorced, I would still be a part of his family [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
2)Sat afternoon- I LB'd by bringing up A-she got angry-I aksed if she had a timetable about a decision-she said no-I said I hate her having total control of my life-she said "Bingo, maybe for once you aren't in control of things and you can't stand it". Resolved argument by her saying again that "she will take care of it-just leave her alone-stop smothering-stop pressuring-stop trying to box her in a corner" <hr></blockquote><p>Many WSs have this control issue... What I started to say was... "You're right. You are going to do what you are going to do. I have no control over you. However, God is in control of my life." Also, whenever he started to ask me about a decision... I would just say "I don't know. What do you think." I'd really suggest the Ruiz books The Four Agreements and the Mastery of Love regarding this kinda stuff... they really helped me about month 3 or 4 <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
3)Sat eve - We went to Party at house of my boss (very fancy-very rich). Wife spent most of evening talking to other wives about kids and our history-telling stories-etc. I hung with men-shooting pool. Later-other wives told me "(Wife) has been telling us all about your family. What beautiful daughters and granddaughters you have. You are very lucky." On way home, WW said she had a great time, and we laughed and joked. <hr></blockquote><p>see above #1... cakewoman... also know that WSs have complete ability to 'compartmentalize' their lives... now the trick comes for you NOT to LB so that these GOOD times stay in the forefront of their minds and NOT the LBs!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
4)Sat nite-Sun morn- we were both tipsy sat nite, WW undressed in front of me-I kissed her- she started to melt and kiss back-then pushed me away. Got into bed-tried again-same thing. We went to sleep. Sun morning-I woke her up with kisses-she laid in my arms for a few minutes-I stroked her hair-very intimate. Then she said "I don't think we should make love. Our relationship started with sex 23 years ago. I don't want it to be about that". (remember, no S for last 6 months)<hr></blockquote>...<p>I can't help you here. SF has helped me keep my connection w/ WH. Hopefully other women... or men can help you.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
Then I told her how hard it is to live with this pain. I said that maybe it would be easier on both of us if I moved out of the house. She said "NO-I don't want you to do that." I asked her if she was sure and she said "Yes-I'm very sure. Don't move out." <hr></blockquote><p>#1. They want to be in control. If you move out... you are in control. #2. cakewoman. #3. confusion. #4. QUIT TALKING ABOUT THIS STUFF!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
5) Sun at church- There was a notice about a married couples retreat in Maryland, end of April. I jokingly said we should go. WW said she thought that would be a great idea. I asked her point blank if she really wanted to go and she said "Yes, I do." Sun nite I asked her if she was serious about going on couples retreat because if so, I will pay deposit next week. She said yes. I said, "OK, you know that you are making a commtiment here, right?" She said "I know".<p><hr></blockquote> <p>Lucky you. Just know that in the back her mind she may be agreeing just so that she can say 'she tried everything' to make things work out... stay ambivilent... reserved... and have NO EXPECTATIONS!!!<p>These are just my opinions, btw.<p>Good Luck,
Cali

Boppo,<p>You said <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>So is there any point where I ask for a decision? Or do I anticipate that she can continue seeing this loser as long as she feels like it-with me giving all and getting crumbs back. Is that the true Plan A? If so, yes it sucks. But it is worth if the end result is my wife coming back. <hr></blockquote><p>You are right about plan A it does work, but you are dead wrong about asking for her decision. Why?<p>It isn't her decision to make. It is your decision to make. If/when you decide you don't want to work on the marriage any more or you are done with the marriage file for divorce and move on. It was and is your decision to try and save this marriage. YOU are in control of yourself and your actions. <p>There is nothing for her to decide. You can leave anytime you want. Remember this. One of the first things the veterans ask of a new poster is "Do you want to save your marriage after this?" If you do,then here is what is suggested, if you don't then move on.<p>Even Harley states that in some situations it would be better to move on. With children it is often worth a try, BUT only if YOU want to save the marriage.<p>So hang in there abit and see what happens. She is compartmentalizing, but at least you know what is going on. If you want to read a sad but successful story go over to Pregnancy and look up the posts by Usedlongago. There aren't many, but if you want to see deception at the highest order read his posts.<p>Hang in there.<p>God Bless,<p>JL