I can't belive what is happening to our recovery. It feels like I am back to square one. I am holding back tears as I write. Here I thought after a year and a half my marriage was on track again. We were haveing fun again, she tells me that she is happy, God has taken center stage in our family, my kids feel safe in that mom and dad are going to stay together.
It turns out that it has all been fake. She says that she can't forgive me for the way I treated her 20 years ago when we were dateing. She says that there were so many times when I hurt her spirit when she was young and impresionable.
I have told her on my knees how sorry I am for all those times. I told her that I am ashamed at myself for not treating her better.
She is all I want now. I have changed over the last year and a half but she says that she still can't forgive me.
I am crushed.
I told her that I was young and immature back then and over the years I have learned how to trully treat her with high respect. She says that no matter what I say now it wont change how she feels and this is somthing she has to figure out by herself.
I love her so much, she is so wonderful. She knows that is how I trully feel but she says it doesn't help. She says she fights this issue in her mind every day. I had know idea and can see now that this is what has been holding her back from trully falling in love with me again.
Things that bother her from our past are many. She went down the list of things that to me were no big deal back then, like looking at other girls when we were together or being friends with my best friends girl friends having no inaproprate thoughts or motives what so ever. But she did'nt see it that way. I tell her now that how she felt back then was valid and I am so sorry for not seeing how this was hurting her at the time. I am so ashamed.
I just got done reading CHELLE96, thread and someone mentioned that Dr. Phil says that forgivness means to say 'I will not hate you any more.'
Does this mean she hates me and has been holding this in for 20 years? I can't stop crying.
What am I going to do?
I am at work right now and all I can do is hide.

Stillhurts,<p>It seems to me that your W is looking for reasons to be angry with you. She is still trying to justify her actions. There comes a time when she will have to seek counseling about this. It is not something that you can fix with an apology.<p>Frankly, from what you have said most of this is simply a fabrication or she has some very unrealistic expectations of human behavior.<p>So my advice is calm down. This is not in your hands to fix. Only she can fix it and that means she must get help from a clergy man, a counselor, or some other professional. I would strongly urge you to encourage her to seek help.<p>You have apologized and it has not helped. All you can do is love her and hope that she will seek the help she needs. Stand strong my man, this is not about you any more it is about her.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

JL, <p>Thanks, I will try to calm down. It just hurts so bad. It's like d day all over again.

Hi Still Hurts,
I know how your wife feels. The hard part is she may want to have all of those wonderful feelings for you but cannot allow herself to, because the risk of hurting again is too great. My problems go back to before we were married mostly, and am in counseling now and finally can see an end to all the memories that torment me. Be completely honest with her, about everything, work with her and be willing to listen even if it is painful for you. If you show her consistently that she matters, as do all of her feelings, and you see it as "our Problem" as opposed to "her Problem", and face it as a team it may help her. When my H started working with me, took responsibility for his mistakes, showing unwavering support, I began to feel the walls come down. I could not allow that for so long because the potential for more hurt was so great. It is still an ongoing process. I don't know the details of your situation, but I hope this helps some. Will keep your family in my prayers.

stillhurts,
She is venting ... it is not the end of the world. Read Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus. Do not go to your cave ... She is just venting ... she needs love assurance that you will stick and hold her steady. You should thank her for her openness and get her advice to help her out. It is part of healing for both of you. She might just frustrated herself about the whole thing that is not moving fast enough. Just listen to her ... she is just venting.

Stillhurts;<p>I am really sorry for how much pain you are in right now...it's horrible...
At the risk of offending some I must say that some of what your wife is saying is just riduculous.
I think that justlearnings post is right on...some people thrive on creating drama and trauma...and reaching back and saying she can't forgive you for things you did twenty years ago is somewhat strange and unreasonable...especially her reasons..
How old were you when these things occurred? I mean the whole point of growing old together is that most of us engage in immature behavior and then change...and if these are things she is holding over your head now..it is awfully cruel...
What does she mean exactly when "She says that there were so many times when I hurt her spirit when she was young and impresionable." I don't even think that makes sense and sounds more like a pop-psyche driven creation of a victim....stillhurting..if she was hurt by some of your actions and never told you..whose responsible for that? She has a role in this...and I again agree with just learning that this is a creation of hers to lash out at you...

She should get help..not to look at what you did..but to explore why she must have this issue in her life..is she very crisis oriented? <p>The good news is that you must really be doing great with the present..if the only gripe she can come up with are infractions from twenty years ago when you dated...<p>Keep steady...keep being that person you have become and desire to be...
take faith that God will guide you...
Offer support and safety...

sfmc, <p>Thank you for your reply, its good to hear this from someone whe has been were my wife is now. You are correct in that she said that she is afraid to forgive for fear it will happen again. I'm not sure if I can tell her that this is our problem, she keeps telling me that this is between her and God. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I just recieved an e-mail from her... this is what she said..<p>I dont want you to think that I am out of here or something like that. I dont
want this marraige to end, I just want time to work through this. I want to
do it with Jesus. If I have something that I need to ask you or share with you
than I will. There is no big secret or anything, I just want to forgive you
from the bottom of my soul. I want to let everything go not just part of it or
forgive in a shallow way. I want it to be real. I am saying that I am going
to work on it, I want to work on it, please allow me to do this with my Lord,
I know this is something He wants to take me through and it will take some
praying and time with him. Please dont be scared, I see that you have really
changed and I love this about you. I have the problem of not wanting to let
go of the past. This isnt about something so simple as forgiveness, it has
something to do with my character, some thing that I am going to have to let
God show me and start some healing in side myslf. I hope that I am making
sence. This isnt just about what you have done, it is about me and how I hang
on to things that hurt like If I let go then I'll be weak. This really
doesn't make much sence to me, I just know that Jesus wants to work on me. He
told me he was going to a few weeks ago. I guess the time is now. Maybe if
you do want to come home early then we can talk some more.
Love me<p>
I felt better after reading this but it is clear that she is trying, I just wish she would seek help.<p>SH

ark,<p>Thank you for your reply. I must say though, this is how she is feeling inside and it is somthing that has bothered her for many years. Her feelings are not rediculous. She does not thrive on creating drama and trauma she just keeps things to herself and doesn't let others know her true feelings. Mabey this is from her childhood, I don't know. The only reason this turned up now is because I pryed it out of her last night. I know that we have been doing very well for the last 6 to 8 months now, d day was a year and a half ago. She is the WS. The problem is that I could feel that there was still somthing keeping us from totaly falling in love again and I couldn't stand it any longer. Basicly I forced the issue and it all came out last night. The truth is, that she has been unable to let the past go. Some of it was when my son was born. Right after giving birth she was having a bad day, had to change 20 dirty diapers in one day and exahested that evening, she asked me to change his diper for her. I was in the middle of monday night football and said no. Its things like that and I feel terrable for that now and I don't even remember alott of these things but she did and never forgot. <p>Please don't think she is a bad person, she is not. If you knew her you would see that she is the most wonderful, sweetest person you would ever know.
All I can do now is be patiant.<p>
RedHat,
Thank you too, I will stick by her and thank her for her openness.<p>You all have helped alott.<p>SH<p>[ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: stillhurts ]</p>

Stillhurts;
I do not mean for my post to come accross as uncaring..it was more to help you shake off so much of the guilt and pain you took on in reaction to your wifes feelings..they are her feelings....but there still lies some strangeness in her thought process...that she needs to let go of...for her and for you....<p>Stillhurts we all make mistakes...holding onto one moment in time when you didn't change diapers during a football game is not the end of the world...she is not a bad person and I certainly don't think that..BUT neither are you for not changing one diaper.... she sure is making life a lot harder than it has to be...
and if she holds onto each and every moment..it's gonna make her "nuts"...and it sure is gonna set you up again and again to fail...
How many times can you apologize for not changing the diaper?
How much can you attone...and realistically how can you change the past...?
I am actually feeling rather bad for her..and I would warn you not to feed into being guilty for such trivial things...for they are truly trivial in relationship to real time now....You are no longer the type of guy who would not change the diaper...that is the gift and proof of repentance that some people here would give anything for...you have changed...and if you give these PAST infractions as much weight as she does...how will she ever learn to let go of all these little things...and see the new you standing in front of her...
I know I may sound cold or cruel...and that is not my intention....but your examples of what she is holding onto sound soley self serving and self destructive...love is knowing that sometimes our spouses are really creepy about changing diapers..or this or that..but for the sake of marriage..we can hold onto each infraction and let them destroy us...or we can move on...If your wife was my friend I would tell her to let these things go..and if she was my spouse I would help her to do that...
And with much concern I ask you this...You can forgive her for infidelity..one of the noblest gifts of forgiveness and grace..and yet she remembers when the two of you were dating and you looked at another girl or didn't change a diaper?
You love her and you don't have to prove that to me...I believe you and I respect that...<p>I think that the best way to address this is to approach the issue of her not being able to let go of things......more than you apologizing over and over again for the past....<p>I wish you peace..
ARK

Ark,
I here ya. I just don't know what to do except leave her be. She has made it clear that she dosn't want help of any kind. This is so frustrating to me. I am considering going back to counseling without her.
It only makes sence to me that if she would only let it go and move forward. It is such a shame that this unforgivness is thw only thing that is standing in the way of us truly falling in love again. I want that so bad. I have no desire to be with anybody else and she knows that.
She is my only desire. She told me last night that she is not even sure if I am her soul mate. Then she said she isn't even sure what a soul mate really is in the first place. Again I was crushed.
I am afraid to go home. I am afraid I will say or do the wrong thing. I'm not sure if I should reach out to her or leave her alone. This is so unlike me. When we married I was and always have been so confident in myself and now I am not sure where I stand any more.<p>Oh boy I'm just rambling... Sorry<p>SH

You know stillhurts... I am reminded of the conversation I had with my H not yet a week ago... when he agreed w/ me that I had not yet felt enough pain to 'equal' that which I had inflicted over him over the course of our marriage...<p>A few days later when I was trying to explain 'my' point of view of the course of the marriage... he said... 'oh, so it is all my fault..."<p>I said... you know. You are right and I am right. I can 'blame' you and you can 'blame' me, but I am no longer interested in blame. I just want to move forward... I also had a discussion about empathy... that I wasn't telling him my past hurts to 'blame' him, but so that he could have an outlook of the whole question...<p>I think WSs have a hard time w/ their own guilt an hold on to those past hurts as a way to assuage that guilt... there is no way that one hurt is more than another... no way to make pain 'equal.' Unfortunately, your wife has to come to that conclusion on her own... I hope she does...<p>Cause as many have said... "You can be right. You can be married. You can't often be both."<p>Hugs,
Cali

Thanks Cali,
When I got home she greeted me with a big hug [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
We talked a little bit and I assured her that I was going to be by her side as she works through this. I told her that counseling is there for her and she said that she will consider it. I asked in a kind way if mabey there was something from her childhood that makes her feel this way. She looked at me and said YES. As far back as she can remember when she would apoligise to her mom, her mom would often tell her "its too late for
that, sorry is not going to help!" [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]
I gave her a hug and things seem to be much better tonight.
I think we are going to be okay. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thank you all....<p>SH

Stillhurts,
hi, I am confused by your wife's claims, since she is the ws. I am the bs. It may be that she is not ready to accept the responsibility that she violated her vows to you and to God. If she is sincere about seeking God first, a christian counselor is her ticket. THe approach is very different from traditional counseling and I have found it much more beneficial. Hope you can get some relief soon, in the mean time you and your family are in my prayers.

sfmc,
We must have hit send at the same time. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]
We have hashed out the A long ago, it seems that these feelings were part of the reasons that lead up to the A. She is very good at hideing her true feelings partly because I never used to validate her feelings, I instead would tell her that her feelings were crazy and wrong. Big mistake. Over the years she began to keep her feelings to her self because she knew that I wouldn't validate her. Its not like that anymore and she knows it. I think that after d day, I was so messed up that she could never address this issue and now a year and a half later, it finaly is coming out.<p>Thank you so much for the prayers!! It does help.<p>SH

Hi stillhurts,
Yes, prayer is effective and I can't understand why you believe your wife is not seeking help! She IS seeking help from the Lord! That's the best kind of help! I'm sorry if I missed something, but I don't understand why this sort of "help" is unacceptable to you!<p>Even if you did go to counseling together or individually, she would have to go through a process of discovering what makes her tick and why she is hanging on to resentment from the past.<p>I think her revelation of how her mom treated her is definitely a step in the right direction. Evidently she ignored your heartfelt apology in the same way her mother ignored hers as a kid.<p>I think that is a good step in the right direction toward healing. Try not to be afraid of the future. We might not know what the future holds, but we know Who holds the future and He can be trusted. God bless you & your marriage! (Actually He already HAS!) [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]