Hi,<p>This is mainly just to augment my understanding of the world from the WS perspective. I've got a set of questions I'd love comments on - I'm sure many other BS would be interested too. I'm sure some of these have been covered before - just not sure if I've seen answers in one place before!<p>1. What were the main stressors in your relationship with OP? If it was a stressor that lead to the demise of the relationship, what was it, and how severe was it?<p>2. Was the destruction of your A an "event" or gradual "process"? I.e., big blow up as with Sue/Greg in SAA, or just simply got tired of it, missed BS, etc.?<p>3. When there were times when you "warmed up" to BS, was it because of low-points with OP, or some other factors?<p>4. Was there anything in particular that BS did to help or hurt their cause (the most)? Or was everything from them more-or-less tuned out?<p>5. Did you notice changes in BS? If so, did you manifest that in any visible way, or just noted it in your mind?<p>6. Specifically for WS who "stayed at home" during the A (i.e. fence sitters):<p> a. Would you ever have made a decision on your own, or was something like Plan B necessary?<p> b. Did your state of fence sitting help sustain your feelings for OP? I.e., if you'd been out alone in the same dynamic, would it have led to a quicker death of the A?<p>7. We've seen so many examples of "spontaneous" realization from the WS - the clearing of the fog, with a sudden renewed interest in BS. If this happened to you, what do you think caused it?<p>8. What did you think of Plan B, if you went through that? How did it affect you, in terms of your relationship with OP?<p>9. Did you ever compare BS and OP? Did that influence the death of the A?<p>I added this after-the-fact:<p>10. If OP had never taken to LB'ing, or doing whatever else contributed to the demise of the A, could you have honestly seen it going on to the point of following through with D and eventual remarriage to OP?<p>11. A common thing appears to be that sex seems better with OP - all the emotional aspects to enhance it - despite how good it might have been with BS in the past. How did this affect you when it came time to have sex with BS again?<p>[ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: J.R. ]</p>

I don't know why I am doing this, but in the sense of brothers keeper, here it is for what it is worth...<p>1. What were the main stressors in your relationship with OP? If it was a stressor that lead to the demise of the relationship, what was it, and how severe was it?<p>snl...The secrecy, the affair stopped cause we both came to understand we could not live dual lives, and had an obligation to our spouses.<p>2. Was the destruction of your A an "event" or gradual "process"? I.e., big blow up as with Sue/Greg in SAA, or just simply got tired of it, missed BS, etc.?<p>snl...The end of the affair was a decision. It also meant not being able to act as friends, and that hurt, but had to be done. It was sorta gradual, in that we spent a lot of time simply discussing the nature of human relationships, and our own lives. There was disagreement over disclosure though, I said the truth must be told, she was adamant it would be too hurtful and she could live with it. I suggested it would insure she could never recover, and told my w, which scared her cause of the unknown actions my w might take, it also violated a promise I had made to her, which distressed me....but she did not try to hold me to it....told me to do what I must to be fair to w...I told her the same.<p>3. When there were times when you "warmed up" to BS, was it because of low-points with OP, or some other factors?<p>snl..other factors.<p>4. Was there anything in particular that BS did to help or hurt their cause (the most)? Or was everything from them more-or-less tuned out?<p>snl...anger, (and lots of it is a major LB for me, I do poorly with anger). Vindictive focus on ow, also not helpful (not cause of the ow, but cause of what it says about the bs). Anything coercive not helpful, all the usual guilt trips. Helpful stuff was simple, positive changes in her, for her, not to manipulate me.<p>5. Did you notice changes in BS? If so, did you manifest that in any visible way, or just noted it in your mind?<p>snl...just noted in my mind, and waited to see if was for real.<p>6. Specifically for WS who "stayed at home" during the A (i.e. fence sitters):<p>a. Would you ever have made a decision on your own, or was something like Plan B necessary?<p>snl...My decisons are independent of w...and I will not be pushed.<p>b. Did your state of fence sitting help sustain your feelings for OP? I.e., if you'd been out alone in the same dynamic, would it have led to a quicker death of the A?<p>snl...I don't fence sit.<p>7. We've seen so many examples of "spontaneous" realization from the WS - the clearing of the fog, with a sudden renewed interest in BS. If this happened to you, what do you think caused it?<p>snl...I think fog exists, for all parties, bs, ws, op....but I think my fog was pretty light, I am an introspective person, and I thought about all this alot...and I came here for reality checks as well. But in fact, I think I may not be that common a flavor of ws.<p>8. What did you think of Plan B, if you went through that? How did it affect you, in terms of your relationship with OP?<p>snl..n/a<p>9. Did you ever compare BS and OP? Did that influence the death of the A? <p>snl...No, and no.

J.R - what great questions and I thank you for posting these. I'm bumping them up hoping other WS's will contribute. <p>And big thanks goes out to SNL for being honest and answering them! Marvelous!<p>VE

J.R.,<p>I suggest you read this thread. It's REALLY long but will give you many many answers, even more than you asked. <p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=009732<p>Also you can do a search for [H]'s posts (member # 11049). This will give you even MORE infomation.<p>[H] is my FWS. You can also do a search for my posts but a lot in the early days of me posting here have been deleted.<p>I wish you luck in your search for answers. Never stop growing and learning!!!<p>K/DSN/LostNco
[H]'s wife [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

SnL, thank you! I really appreciate your honesty.<p>Knewjie, that's a super post - I'll have to go through it in detail when I have some time to allocate to it!<p>And for everyone else, BUMP... More replied would be most welcome...

1. What were the main stressors in your relationship with OP? If it was a stressor that lead to the demise of the relationship, what was it, and how severe was it?<p>The main stressor was once the relationship became PA. I truly believe this stressor would have eventually lead to the demise of the relationship, but my H finding out, stopped it sooner. I was in such a state of bliss with the EA and didn&#8217;t want to hurt my new best friend. So I was slowly back pedaling after things went too far &#8211; PA.

2. Was the destruction of your A an "event" or gradual "process"? I.e., big blow up as with Sue/Greg in SAA, or just simply got tired of it, missed BS, etc.?<p>It was a big blow &#8211; H found out. But it was also a huge relief for me. Sad huh? <p>3. When there were times when you "warmed up" to BS, was it because of low-points with OP, or some other factors?<p>What I really wanted in life was my H all along. If I was receiving attention and adoration from H, I would lap it up. But I guess because it was so sporadic, I eventually just gave up on H all together.

4. Was there anything in particular that BS did to help or hurt their cause (the most)? Or was everything from them more-or-less tuned out?<p>Probably tuned out &#8211; I had on my football gear &#8211; H couldn&#8217;t shoot arrows my way that could penetrate the skin anymore. <p>5. Did you notice changes in BS? If so, did you manifest that in any visible way, or just noted it in your mind?<p>He asked if I was having A and I said &#8220;no&#8221;. I sat there and lied and lied. How awful is that? <p>6. Specifically for WS who "stayed at home" during the A (i.e. fence sitters): <p>a. Would you ever have made a decision on your own, or was something like Plan B necessary?<p>I know that I would have made the decision to end the A on my own. <p>b. Did your state of fence sitting help sustain your feelings for OP? I.e., if you'd been out alone in the same dynamic, would it have led to a quicker death of the A?<p>Oh, I don&#8217;t know. I may have hung onto the EA portion for awhile. <p>7. We've seen so many examples of "spontaneous" realization from the WS - the clearing of the fog, with a sudden renewed interest in BS. If this happened to you, what do you think caused it?<p>Definitely my H. He focused on me and totally me. He won my heart in no time flat. But the problem was, he did not focus on himself. So, now he&#8217;s hurting an unbelievable pain. He put all his attention into me and left himself in the wing. <p>8. What did you think of Plan B, if you went through that? How did it affect you, in terms of your relationship with OP? <p>Not applicable to my situation.<p>9. Did you ever compare BS and OP? Did that influence the death of the A?<p>No comparison. The OM was not BETTER in any respect. He just offered adoration, compliments, and temporarily built back my self-esteem. I allowed my M to drill me down to nothing and then gave up instead of doing something about it. It wasn&#8217;t a matter of choosing something better. It was a selfish way of picking myself out of the gutter. I could have done that in so many other ways &#8211; but that is not what I did. It absolutely influenced the death of A because after the PA, I realized that the OM is not what I wanted in my life. <p>10. If OP had never taken to LB'ing, or doing whatever else contributed to the demise of the A, could you have honestly seen it going on to the point of following through with D and eventual remarriage to OP?<p>Divorce was something I had thought about &#8211; but, being with OM permanently &#8211; absolutely not. <p>11. A common thing appears to be that sex seems better with OP - all the emotional aspects to enhance it - despite how good it might have been with BS in the past. How did this affect you when it came time to have sex with BS again?<p>See, I don&#8217;t think about the PA much, until my H brings it up because it was really bad. Making love to my H is a dream out of the movies. They are two different animals in my mind. The trouble is, being able to explain this so that my H believes it. To him, he goes through the PA portion over and over in his mind. But, I can&#8217;t say that I blame him, I&#8217;d do the same thing if the shoe was on the other foot. But honestly, the PA was not &#8220;making love&#8221;. My A was all about the emotional charge &#8211; not the sexual.

Okay, another couple, plus a bump:<p>12. Did BS ever get a sense of when things were going badly with OP? (How well did you disguise it - mostly applicable if you were at home during the A.)<p>13. Given the natural "up-down" nature of an A relationship, how frequent were your ups and downs?<p>14. If BS had talked to OP (in a calm way) - how would that have affected your A's dynamic? (Hurt the sense of fantasy?)

I am not sure if an EA constitutes what you are asking, but I can say for me the EA was the catylist for my divorce.<p>Prior to the EA, I was very dissatisfied with the marriage. I had a very controlling husband who treated me more like a servant than a wife. There was a lot of emotional abuse. My H would dole out affection only when I had done xyz. Anyway, fooling around on the internet one day, I met someone who literally changed my life. He was kind to me and made me feel good about myself. His daily emails were the highlights of my days. Logically, I knew it was getting out of hand, but I couldn't stop. Eventually, the emails graduated to phonecalls and I love you's were being exchanged. The whole thing lasted about 4 months.<p>The death of the EA came when my ex broke into my email account and read all the notes I had recieved. He then proceeded to kick me out of the bedroom, tell my family, and his boss that I was having an affair...all this is the space of less than 24 hours. He closed our bank accounts and left me with about $200 to run the house...I was working too. Anyway, if those things weren't bad enough, when he saw that I had opened another account, he called my email friend's wife on the phone and told her. That was the end. Was I in a fog? I don't think so. I didn't conciously want to have such a weird relationship. <p>At that point my H and I talked for hours and hours daily; more so than we had our whole marriage. He promised to change, to give me what I needed...but at the time, I was in serious withdrawl and hated him for the humiliation he put me through and for treating me like crap for the last 10 years. He brought me flowers, but I hated them. I had always love flowers, but then, he would never buy them for me. Now, when I didn't want them, he gave them to me. In my head it was too little too late.<p>I wanted my husband to change, but he couldn't. He would constantly throw the OM in my face even though it was over. He became more evasive in my personal things. He would belittle and humilate me in counseliing. <p>I moved out of the bedroom the night of discovery. I never slept in that bed again and that was two years ago. But there were times when we would have sex. I think when you are married for a long period of time...it just feels normal. I have read some BS saying having sex with their WS is sometimes the best of their marriage. For me, I attribute it to feeling very passionate...born from anger and frustration. <p>I did warm up to my H at times, but those times again were because I was so confused. I wanted to stay married, I just felt like I wasn't in love with my H. He would do something nice for me, but he could never sustain it. Two days later he was screaming at me, calling me names, and threatening he would ruin me.<p>I filed for divorce.<p>Did I ever compare OM and H. Yes. Remember, I never actually met the OM in person, so physically I didn't do that. On an emotional level, I did. The OM seemed to happily fulfil my ENs...<p>I remember feeling a lot of anger during that period at my H. I don't know where it all came from, but it was as if the flood gates were opened and 16 years of pentup frustration came pouring out.<p>My H did some horrendous things during our separation. My divorce took over 18 months...and in all that time, he went out of his way to be hurtful. <p>I never had contact with the OM, but I don't regret that I divorced my H. I know people here don't want to hear that in someways I had deemed the marriage dead before the EA started. I know I did, or I wouldn't have been able to do it.<p>Yes, I filed the divorce, but that doesn't mean I didn't greive, that I don't wish things had been different, but they weren't, and here I am. I am not remarried or did I have a bunch of OM after the EA came to screeching halt. I'm okay now.

BUMP - would appreciate more replies from WS out there!

here are my answers

1. What were the main stressors in your relationship with OP? If it was a stressor that lead to the demise of the relationship, what was it, and how severe was it?

we were in a ld relationship, also op had a real problem trusting me, and I was such an honest cheat! Op called constantly,after a while it drove me crazy,also we kept waiting for the other one to move out, couldnt decide what state to live in, so many problems added up.

2. Was the destruction of your A an "event" or gradual "process"? I.e., big blow up as with Sue/Greg in SAA, or just simply got tired of it, missed BS, etc.?<p>it was a gradual process, neither one of us was the perfect person the op first thought.

3. When there were times when you "warmed up" to BS, was it because of low-points with OP, or some other factors?<p>good times with op and I was in a good mood with spouse, same with lows, I took it out on spouse.<p> 4. Was there anything in particular that BS did to help or hurt their cause (the most)? Or was everything from them more-or-less tuned out?<p>
Spouse was tuned out during the fog.

5. Did you notice changes in BS? If so, did you manifest that in any visible way, or just noted it in your mind?<p> I noticed changes in myself , I never felt anything bs done was to blame.<p>
6. Specifically for WS who "stayed at home" during the A (i.e. fence sitters):<p>a. Would you ever have made a decision on your own, or was something like Plan B necessary?<p>
although I wanted to end the affair, I couldnt but op did it so I didnt have a choice.<p> b. Did your state of fence sitting help sustain your feelings for OP? I.e., if you'd been out alone in the same dynamic, would it have led to a quicker death of the A?<p> it might have, I just dont know.<p> 7. We've seen so many examples of "spontaneous" realization from the WS - the clearing of the fog, with a sudden renewed interest in BS. If this happened to you, what do you think caused it?<p>it didnt happen that way forme, I had to work at it.<p> 8. What did you think of Plan B, if you went through that? How did it affect you, in terms of your relationship with OP?
na<p>9. Did you ever compare BS and OP? Did that influence the death of the A?
during the fog I was always comparing, thinking op was much better for me, thinking op was the one for me. Toward the end, I saw that I would lose a great deal if I left spouse for op.

10. If OP had never taken to LB'ing, or doing whatever else contributed to the demise of the A, could you have honestly seen it going on to the point of following through with D and eventual remarriage to OP?<p>yes and thats a scarey thought.

11. A common thing appears to be that sex seems better with OP - all the emotional aspects to enhance it - despite how good it might have been with BS in the past. How did this affect you when it came time to have sex with BS again?<p> I never actually stopped having sex with spouse
but I have to admit, after having sex with op,
it wasnt easy, it took a long time to actually enjoy being with my spouse instead of just the sex part of it.

Did OP ever just hang themselves, like LBing and such to the point where you left? And what was it that helped you most in withdrawl, I mean not to go back to the OP?

Bump - any other WS out there today??