Long time since I posted. Been lurking almost everyday. Sometimes I am reassured and other times confused. Its been a horrible week. As I have said before, I found MB about a year too late. <p>By now, my friends and family all think that I am crazy. That I need to move on, forget about him, that he "plays" me, and how could I ever forgive him if nothing else, for what he has done to the children. So you guys keep me going (or knock me over the head, huh, redhat? [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>First the Bad News, my D was final this week -- one day to the year that my H moved out. As I write this, I just gave my children to WH to spend weekend with OW and one of her kids, this is the first time he has seen her in a month -- she lives 4hrs away. I am assuming that they will celebrate the D -- after all it is what they started plotting for more than a year ago. Two weeks ago, he "uninvited" me on a weekend getaway, b/c he decided to take her instead (he wanted to know if I'd still get the kids, yeah right). He went ahead and made an offer on a house this week -- which he is going to show to OW this weekend -- I haven't seen it. I'm so sad and lonely.<p>
Then the Good News, I have continued to Plan A, despite some emotional setbacks -- you guys know, take a couple steps forward, get hit, resolve weakens, and then get back on the path. And when I am not staying close to God, it is easier to wonder what the hell am I doing. <p>My H (XH -- OK not ready for that) read SAA last week, gave it to me the day after our final hearing was scheduled -- he said he was very confused and that it made him sad to see that what he did was "common" and his A wasn't so special, and that the book confused him. He asked me not to interfere with his A and that he knows he has to make a decision. He has even brought up "needs" from the book -- what he needs and what I need if we are to work things out. (he has not filled out Q, despite my requests). He says he knows we could work it out, and our marriage would be better than before. <p>As it worked out, we didn't have to go to court, so we went to a restaurant and had a couple of drinks at the bar and I went over later that night. He has still been letting me meet SF, and I have been more than willing [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] , b/c I knew that it was safe. But after this weekend, won't risk STD -- OWH says she is rumoured to be seeing someone at home. <p>When he picked up the kids, he asked me to go to dinner with he and kids on Monday for his birthday. I was not very friendly (probably LBd), but I told him I was hurt and I didn't understand how he can do this. He kissed me and asked me not to be upset.<p>He says he knows that she doesn't treat our children well. He says that he thinks she dressed "cheaply" (to show off the breast job she got 9 nine days after she left her husband). He says that he has lots of issues -- that he doubts ability to remain her faithful, the long distance issue, (she was to move in after christmas and did not). He even said that if it didn't work out with him, she would marry a rich dr. or lawyer. <p>
So, where am I guys? More time in Plan A? Only been going on about 6 weeks, but as I sit here, I know that my feelings are changing. There was not much love left when I started -- the DV process was so horrible. Plan B -- almost seems like a way for him "not" to decide? Will he fence sit forever? Will he really come home during Plan A? And honestly, our situation has never seen as clear cut as many of yours. I was the WS, and his EA (going on for several months at the time of my stupidity) went PA the next day. <p>I am confused and just need some encouragement.

isitpossible,<p>Hey, you call my name ... I am here [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . So I thought we told you to stop Dv. You were one year late to MB but you probably one week late to stop Dv. Is it official now by the court that you are Dv ?.<p>The question is within you. All your post indicated that H's A will die, all you need to do is sit back, watch and ready to catch H. Now do you want your H ?. If not then just move on and don't even plan A or plan B ... just a freind. If you still want it then stay in plan A and reconcile/remarry later.<p>Did you put no contact to your OM and stick by it all this time ?.

It seems you need to set some boundaries. If you are divorced, move on and make a life for yourself. WS is having cake and eating it too and you are "baking" it and serving it to him. Why do you feel you need to fill WS EN now that you are divorced? You cannot base a marriage on appeasing your guilt from your A. There has to be a time when you let go. For me, divorce would be that time. It does not seem like he has an interest in being a faithful, devoted husband.<p>Have you read MB principles? If so, maybe you need some counsel to clarify the issues. You can get to the point of wanting something so much that you enable the WS to continue in confusion and waffling. You are the one who suffers the most.....<p>Prayers to you,
TW

isitpossible;<p>I am so sorry to hear that the D is final. We seem to be in very similar situations regarding A's in the M. I am a WS and a BS. Everything came out in December 2001 and we have been dealing with the pain since then. The only fortunate part for us was my W's A died immediately. Properly said, I killed it. We still don't know where this road will lead; but we have both gotten on it and are trying to rebuild our M.<p>That said - I found MB about the first week of December. I read and read and I thought "I" could fix our M quickly. Redhat set me straight on my first post and got me to really look at my plan A. I didn't have to plan A real long and my W and I are now starting our recovery. I am still searching my soul to be the best person I can be for me, my W, my kids and for God. Our M is still pretty much an empty shell without a lot of thngs a H and W share; but we are rebuilding. I have decided for myself that I will improve all the things in my life that I have control over and I will be a GREAT husband and father. I hope and pray with all my soul it will be with my W. But the biggest thing I have learned is that it is ultimately her choice. We have both realized we each contributed to this state of affairs (pardon the pun) that we are in. And we both know we need to work our tails off to rebuild our M.<p>The biggest issues that are coming up right now are the revelations of my A's to my W. Her A was an EA; but no one will ever really know. All I know is she loved him. There has been no contact as near as I can tell; but my W has focused on what I did to her, rather than; what damage has been done to our M from both of us having A's. It seems you have closure on your A as I have on mine. But to my W, it is fresh in her mind and she is feeling the same betrayal that I am feeling toward her. I decided early on that the only hope of saving our M was for me to do the best plan A I can and meet her EN's whenever she will allow me to and not dwell on her A. Only she can grant me forgiveness. I have given it to her but she is not yet ready to let go of her resentment for what I did. I seem to be doing OK meeting her EN's and my W has told me she is feeling closer to me; but there is no love and she is so afraid she will not get it back. Actually I am afraid of that to. I love my W very much and I can see how the Love Bank works and I can feel it when she makes deposits. She's not sure she will let her guard down so that I can hurt her again and she is not feeling the deposit of Love Unit's.<p>The reason I am telling my story on your thread is this - You and your H (XH - Sorry) will have a lot of healing to do. Him asking you to let his A die is a good sign that he is starting to see it will not work out. If you step in and kill what is left he will have more to resent you for. When his A is over you two will have a very unique perspective of what the other is feeling and you may have common ground on which to start to rebuild. But you will need to rebuild yourselves first. You go from guilt over your A one minute to resentment of his the next. Eveyone here compares this experience to a roller coaster ride. I think of my situation as racing roller coasters and you never know where one is compared to the other.<p>From my understaning of Plan B, it is for your self protection to retain any love units you might have left. If you still feel you can plan A for your XH and you still want to rebuild your M, then Plan A. If you end up never going forward you will withdraw so many units that you will be out of love and able to move on knowing you did all you could. While his A is dying, work on you. Find your strength and be the best person you can be for you and your family. If your XH wants to work on rebuilding a M with you, you will both have feelings of being a WS and a BS at the same time. As painful as this has been I feel we have a perspective that alot of the other BS's and WS's don't get to have. I wish none of us were here; but for me it has been easier to let go of the resenment I had toward my W because of what I have done. I'm not recommending we all go jump over the fence just to get perspective; but if you find yourself there use it to your advantage. Remember; when your XH's A dies, he will be feeling what you were feeling when your's ended. You will be the only person in the world that will be able to help him understand what he is feeling.<p>I know you have gone through all the pain of the D and your bank is nearly empty. If you need to do it for yourself then Plan B, just keep an eye on your XH; and be ready to be his friend when his A is over. You will have the tools to help him through his tough time and you just might be able rebuild something.<p>Maybe my view is jaded; but being on both sides of the fence, IMHO I think we have a little different perspective than most of the others here. Good luck and God Bless!

Thank you all for your replies! I needed them! <p>Redhat, it was too late to stop DV. I tried. As we were sitting in the restaurant, I was still asking H to call the judge to hold paperwork for even 60 days. His motivation was $ held in escrow he wanted. Plus he was just adamant that "we" (he) had spent so much $ on DV (custody battle, and him trying to hide his A), he wanted it closed and that remarriage was easier than going through DV process again. I tried persuading until I was too close to LBing. Pushing things along was a judge who was appointed to another position wanting to clear his docket b4 leaving. Trust me, I did everything. H even told Steve Harley during his one counseling session that he was not swayable on this. <p>Yes, I still want my H. No doubt. But my plan A (and the year b4 a plan A) through a rebuilding class at my church, i have a pretty good picture of what I did wrong, what I need to do better and what kind of M I want. So it is going to take a lot of work to change behavior patterns. I will say that when we are together now, for both of us, the anger is gone. I feel natural with him, and comfortable, and he feels the same. He even said to me the other night (we talk on the phone a lot of nights for long periods) "you and I have a bond that just isn't there with (OW). We have so much to talk about." And we do. Our friendship is at good point, but I hate that sometimes b/c I am afraid that is where it will end. We both know that dwelling on the A doesn't get us anywhere. I read one of Honey's (I think) or Bramble Rose's posts that said when he brings up OW, I should politely say that I don't want to discuss that, it is too painful. I haven't tried that, what do you think? It gives me an advantage when he confides in me about her, right?
I have not completely stuck by the OM issue. There were some financial issues between the two of us those are being resolved right now. That situation, redhat, really did die a natural death. I have feelings of "fondness" -- if you could even call it that, but I am not interested in a relationship with him. (Badger203, fyi, this OM is who I started seeing after H asked for DV when I thought there was no hope.) SAA says women have easier time moving on, putting past behind me -- that has been true for me. If my H and were to work things out, I would have fond memories of how OM supported me during the DV year, but no "longings" or "what ifs". Badger -- I hope that gives you comfort. And the person that I had the A with that started all this, if I walked past him on the street, I would say hello and keep going, and another thought of him would not enter my head. He has called me 2 times, crying, usually drunk, with all of his catholic guilt (no offense) and have told him to get a life and tell his wife or his priest, but I don't want to hear it, what we did was wrong, end of story.<p>Tossedwave, a paper DV is not an emotional DV, and am more married today than I was at some points during my M. Though I am extremely sensitive of the having cake, eating it too issue. Any suggestions in the context of knowing that I do want to work it out? But, tossed wave, you could be right. After all, now DV is final who is the OW here, me or her, and is he just showing me that he can never be faithful to anyone?<p>Badger, be thankful to God that you are both willing to work. Know that there are many who would love to be in your shoes, myself included. Thank you for sharing your story, and you are right: I have used my WS experience to help me understand H's A, and that is why I say that I am sad and lonely, rather than angry. But I was angry for a long time. I had a lot of guilt over my A that caused his A, but through counseling and prayer and support of my friends I have come to these conclusions: 1) two people are in a M, and BOTH create the environment for an A. I bear lots of responsibility and so does H, particulary when he was in an EA already and was not interested in meeting my needs only being critical. 2) I have accepted my blame, I have repented and asked for forgiveness and tried to move forward with "go and sin no more" -- (interesting thread on that last month). I have forgiven myself. 3)I have done what I can to keep M together (admittedly with mistakes) and I find comfort in the fact that after my A, I tried to make a better M and H pretended for about 7 mos that he was trying too, while conducting an A. At many junctures, I have tried to get H to work on things, drug him to counseling, cried, begged, threatened (yeah, now I know -- all LBs), nothing ever as effective as MB; keep with it. her love will come back. Please tell me that you have read HNHN!!! 3) I would never do it again. and I can say this, and you can read it, but until you arrive at similar conclusions for yourself, by yourself, it won't really mean anything to you, and that just takes time. <p>Plan A is "working" both for me and for H. But I am afraid that love and respect will be gone for him. I have the fog totally lifted, and though I understand H's fog, I know that it has lifted to a great degree, and I wonder why? he hangs on. If someone could explain this "dwindle waffle" to me, it would help me keep my respect, and maybe my hope. -- kinda like holding up an empty bottle of syrup -- a very sticky substance -- and trying to get the last little bit out. I say throw that sucker in the sink and rinse it out. Waffles are a lot healthier with fruit and whipped cream.<p>Plan B, honestly, I am not sure that I have the strength to do. And I am afraid my Plan A has not been long enough.<p>Maybe a Dobson Tough Love approach? Recommendations? <p>Last question, now that they are back in the bubble, since she did not move in -- seeing each other on the weekends, talking on the phone, this is going to take longer to die, right? Opinions. Bramble Rose, if you "hear" this, you might have a good perspective.<p>[ February 09, 2002: Message edited by: isitpossible ]</p>

isitpossible;<p>Thank you for your answers to me. If you asked a direct question about the book - Yes, I have read HNHN, SAA, Give and Take and I'm reading Lovebuster's now. I'm turning into a walking counseling center. When I talk to my friends they are happy to tell me about their marital problems since they know I'm now in the same boat. It's amazing the number of people that are having problems and burying the like cat poop! They figure they will just go away. I have become a walking billboard for MB and their principles.<p>The most help we have had was getting counseling from Steve right away. We saw a counselor here locally and he was an idiot. Before any of the A's came to light to either my W or me he was preparing us for divorce and getting us to accept what was happening. Thank God my wife and I both agreed he was a goof. I started right away with Steve and originally planned on counseling for just me. The day the of the first call all the details had been out in the open and for whatever reason my W joined me on the call. The rest is history. <p>We seem to be in a good recovery. I got the cell phone bill today for me and my and W and the has been no contact - CONFIRMED!!! [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] We are going day by day; but the more I try to meet her needs and be the guy she married 8 years ago; the more I can see her eyes lighting up. We have a long way to go and with God's help and a lot of hard work, we will rebuild a marriage that will last a lifetime. <p>Good luck to you. You seem to have invested a lot of time in you and your M and it seems your XH has not wanted to work toward rebuilding his M. That's sad. I have realized God will not tempt us and he will not pull a marriage apart; that is the work of Satan and sometimes he influnences our spouses. He influenced me and by the grace of God I was able to break his hold. Hopefully your XH will be able to do the same and you guys can rebuild a new M. If it doesn't work out that way; God will definetly guide you through the next steps of your life. Again, God Bless and thank you.

isitpossible,<p>Yes, you are not long enough working on plan A. You can not do plan B or tough love. One of your H issue is your love to him. IMO, stick in plan A for a while, listen and listen to his complaint about OW ... you know A will die. For now just listen and stay away from mingle w/ their A. H needs also to heal from Dv. You could start openning other topic too.<p>I would also call Steve to give him updates and ask the next step.<p>It is a good thing OW didn't move in. Remember time, quality time could strengthen "in love" feeling.

I still think you need to set boundaries. He is INVOLVED with OW from what you say and he has it made. What human being wouldn't want what he has (especially a man---sorry guys). He has SF from 2 women with no committment or repsonsibility or just responsibility he chooses. I believe that is what is destroying marriages today. The fact that someone can have whatever they want for nothing. I get sad when I see the young girls today (my OW is 26) and I see how they are used by guys with never a promise of anything. <p>Committment is a big issue and if my WS cannot even do that then I would rather live alone and miss the joys of sharing my life with him. You cannot work out your M alone. I tried that and it is the pits. WS CANNOT work on your M with OW in his pocket. If you think you are working on your M, you need to read some more of the books on recovery. You are making yourself appealing to WS but how long do you want to do that? And what does making yourself appealing provide without committment on either of your parts. I know someone who did not end their M for 10 years. Ugly and painful journey.<p>My H is a major waffler...he has been doing this since a week or two after D-day. I have loved him and respectfully gave him the space he needs
to decide what he wants and he is unhappy still. He wants to get back together but does not know how. I have boundaries...no emotional support at this point, minimal interaction, no pressure, etc. I made it clear to him that he is doing something that is very painful to me and he cannot expect me to be able to handle his A.
I have to leave him to himself and I told him he has to find answers. I do not have any.
I know we need professional help but he still somewhat refuses to have a third party involved in our reconciliation(if it ever occurs). <p>I pray that you will find your "handle" to steer this in a direction that will bring health and happiness to you. Treasure what you have learned from your mistakes and keep them as a stepping stones for future marital fulfillment with or without WS.<p>TW