Another whine &#8211; vent &#8211; or perhaps more constructively, &#8230; I Need help on how to get more recovery or at least stop the bleeding !! <p>Week before last my DW slept in other bedroom for four nights &#8211; she was stressed over the sale of our home & down sizing thing &#8211; she never said a word though &#8211; I mentioned if this was her version of Abstinence thing &#8211; she said, &#8220;If you can do it (me), so can I&#8221; &#8211; I said OK, just wondered. Friday I find luxury kind of Apartment & she gets excited and tells me she is feeling better now. She said that she was thinking of getting her own place earlier in the week, but now she feels good & wanted to take me out to dinner & movie &#8211; I&#8217;m sorry I feel a little &#8220;used here&#8221; &#8211; I said &#8220;OK, what ever, I don&#8217;t want you to feel obligated, if you want to pack in, just let me know.&#8221;
This week was pretty good &#8211; she started out saying she wanted to cute back on SF &#8211; twice a week &#8211; by Thursday we&#8217;re pretty much into normal routine, but with layoff, it was special!
Sunday after lunch, (after red hot lovemaking that morning) I mention that we have things for sale & that maybe the buyer would be interested in family room furniture & that along with breakfast nook furniture that would equal what credit they are asking for on some repairs? She gives me a nasty, &#8220;what a stupid idea!&#8221; kind of tone back, &#8220;what ever?!&#8221; I get mad &#8211; I say why can&#8217;t you be nice &#8211; she says, &#8220;what, I&#8217;m not entitled to my opinion!&#8221; &#8220;I say, it&#8217;s not your opinion that upsets me, it&#8217;s your attitude towards my views&#8212;all I ask for is to be treated with a little respect & dignity!&#8221;
She said she has been annoyed, embarrassed that she feels I call realtors too often. I say, you couldn&#8217;t think of a nice way to communicate that?! I do have harsh tone. She said there are a lot of thing I do that embarrasses her, but she does not say anything. I say OK, this list seems to be growing, it doesn&#8217;t sound like you really care for me. She just shakes her head, like I am making too big of a deal about this.
????
She says, she just &#8220;FuXXed my brains out, isn&#8217;t that being nice&#8221; & I say, &#8220;So that gives you the right to treat me like ShXT! To rub my face in the ground & treat me like a doormat!!&#8221;
I obviously did a pour job of communicating a boundary here ??? Any suggestions?<p>She said she did not know anyone as sensitive as I was. She said she is wearing herself out & trying really hard. I said that kind of statement is indicative of verbal abuse!&#8221; &#8220;You have to try so hard to be nice to me & that takes so much energy?!!&#8221;<p>She is still upset this AM & this mourning she said that I was playing with her taking her up, then down &#8211; this has been her standard approach when I voice a concern about anything &#8211; that we seem to get along then I stir up trouble.
I said, and you don&#8217;t think you have not put a major stress on my brain for what you have done?!&#8221; she said, &#8220;well you got me back!&#8221;<p>Boundary topic came up Saturday night. We were going out with friends & I had fixed myself a drink & she did not like it &#8211; said it was too strong & that we won&#8217;t have any booze for friends, Blah, Blah, She said I can do what I want, but if I have another drink at home, she will not go out with me. In a friendly tone I said that is a good boundary. I said I have been reading some on that & that was good. I said for example, I cannot tell you what to wear, but I could tell you that if you dressed seductively, I don&#8217;t have to go out with you. Well, of course this was too general. She quickly said that seductively would be a matter of opinion. She suggested stopping it & said I could have another drink.<p>Now the dress issue &#8211; we are out with friends at the bar & she sits down & bang, her top slides up & her bare hips are exposed &#8211; not very much, but it is bare. Now I know, it&#8217;s not her boobs hangin out, but in my opinion, not exactly modest! She spends half her tie jerking her top down so her hind hips are not exposed. ??
She many times makes extreme statements as points of reference. Like this summer when she said she tried on cloths that were &#8220;two&#8221; sizes too big & that she is just not going to dress that way. I believe I have described her way of dress enough that most all of you cannot stand another description.<p>To set a boundary here do I have to get specific in description. I mean would it be a crime to ask for no more low rise pants, and how do I describe the tightness of tops or the pattern &#8211; like the snakeskin pattern she wore last week as making me feel uneasy.<p>She has told me that she &#8220;seeks the attention of men & women&#8221; &#8211; is it fair to throw that back in her face & tell her I prefer she not seek this attention in a sexual way? Then we get into question of semantics. I am confused as to what is realistic to ask for or how to go about it? There is no doubt in my mind & I truly feel she understands that she dresses on provocative side, but she does not want to admit that to me & wants to make me belief that is not her intent.<p>Eventually I suppose I will get over this, but I obviously struggle. When we are out I see her scan the place and invariably she always has to use the bathroom & I have to watch this little sway & cutesy dance as if she has to pass the review stand at the bar. Any ideas on specific styles &#8211; I see other women age 49 whose cloths are not nearly so tight or revealing &#8211; any good alternatives to skin tight hip huggers with tight v-necks??<p>I guess I could have more drinks before we leave the house!!<p>I know, I wear this out &#8211; just looking for ideas about realistic boundary for me to express.<p>Should I apologise for outburst?
Thanks!
HH

OK,
How about the idea of her calling me. Many times when I call her it is not at a good time and she is simply too busy to talk. The last time we discused this was about two months ago. She stressed how busy she is at work, like she barley has time to eat lunch (and of course she skips lunch a lot to keep her figure - that plus the vomitting thing), then I say, OK, how about a call on your way home or when you get home. She simply said, I guess I'm never going to be the W you want me to be.
You would think I was asking her to submitt to a test of bambo shoots under her finger nails. She many times gets annoyed if I call her & typically asked what it is I want specifically & that I am more or less not allowed to call to just say hello.<p>Now this does not give me a warm & cosy feeling that I am the man of her life of course, but is this an unreasonable request? This also makes me wonder if she wants to hold on to or preserve some free time or lack of any accountability, so she can jump into her secret world again. ???<p>Any idea as to how to present this is a way that is does not seem I am putting the burden of the world on her shoulders? <p>She busted my bricks for years on my calling her, even on her days off. I had no idea what she did or when she did it actually. Then after D-Day, she tells our pastor that she saw our marriage as one of convenience. It seems that is what she prefers? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]
Thanks!
HH

OK HH,<p>I'll take a shot at the clothes issue. But first I'll say that if she doesn't want to, nothing is going to make her change. W definitely is one who needs attention to feel worthwhile.<p>What about getting hold of some cutting edge fashion magazines or fashion catalogs and highlight some outfits that you think are tastefully sexy, ones that you would be comfortable having her wear when you are out together. Show them to W and see what she thinks. If she shows any interest at all, offer to buy her the outfit. Then when she wears it, make a fuss over how great she looks and how proud you are to have such an attractive W.<p>It might work; it might not. But it's worth a try. I had read your early posts. I'm glad W is back home.<p>Good luck,
Estes

Hi HH,<p>Sure wish I had more to encourage you with but your W sounds like she is trying hard to take you to the breaking point. Mine has that tendancy also. <p>Confused? Maybe she should try some of the Millstone's fog lift coffee. As for the attention getting issues, well I knew a 50+ lady who looked young from the back (like a teeny bopper), skinny as all getup and she dressed like a sleezy one, divorced single mom and when she turned around, her age showed. Nothing could hide that age. All it did was show the contrast. Now she could have easily looked stunning and highly attractive if her back and front matched a bit. But you know what others saw? A young looking backside and an old looking front side. She wore the makeup and all getup but the age still showed through. Especially when her 20+ girls would stop by and call her mom. She really didn't like it. Wonder why?!?!? <p>To her, her looks were more important than her family. That left an impression on me. I vowed not to be that way in my old age. Well, here I am at that age and yep, my back side and front side look about the same age!!!! LOL!! You know what? People notice. <p>I get complimented on how young I look when they finally figure out my age but I know better than to try to look too young. <p>Can you find another woman doing the same and ask your W what she thinks about that? For me I have to put H in the viewing position so he can better see the stupidity of his ways. He does and then becomes more reasonable. If he doesn't then I just look away and laugh. If I don't, I will cry. It is hard to see our loved ones making fools out of themselves but sometimes you just have to let them. <p>Sounds like your W is confused in many aspects of her life. One thing that won't stop for anyone is time. It comes whether we like it or not. The thing is to do it gracefully. <p>Hugz,
L.

Estes & Orchid,
Thanks for checking in on me & offering yiour perspectives.<p>I had breakfast with my best friend who is the one person who knows all of my story. He & his w & us go out -- he is not the one I sometimes talk about as a rival of sorts, the one whom my DW wrapped her leges arounf on golf course, but this friend is also friends with other couple, we all attend the same church & my friend knows our PASTOR really well.<p>Although we did not specifically talk about boundaries, he is convinced that her orientation towards sex and her undying need to getting this attention is all about hormones. He has said before the more I put restrainst on her, the more it will make her rebell.
He talked about using logic and listing the things that are important to her now -- top ten, like sex, perhaps with different guys (?), to attract sexual attention from 90% of guys that come into her store, have financial security, have friends, have love & support of family, including children & love & caring husband. Then make a list of what she thinks would be important in 10 years (when she's 10 years older!).
His point was that the things that are apparently important to her now may not be be nearly as important in 10 years, but unless she committs to some changes now the other things are likely not going to be there.
She might get lucky & find a rich guy that does not care if she flaunts her sexuality & fools around, but it's pretty likeliy her current friends or her children are not going to support & embrace her in that kind of posture.
Excellant points, but of course I don't know how to make that presentation.
He agrees that she is in denial big time. That she has not told her counselor, our Pastor or a doctor the things they that she has done. He could not believe that when she saw a GYN a couple months ago that she did not have any tests for STD's. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]
He is a real frank guy at times and he said if she would have told any of these people that she likes to have sex 4 times a day & sometimes with different partner's that they would have told her that this is not normal & that she has some problems. Otherwise, she professes (in so many words, by refusing to talk about this & pretending nothing happened & just move on, get over it kind of attitude) that she does not have problems -- no need for me to be concerned.<p>As it is, she continues her story that she was a victim.
???
Otherwise, He said eventually she'll get through the menapause thing & start wearing house coats.<p>Thanks for listening!
Oh well, Happy Valentines!
HH<p>[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

My surrogate mother -- 77 year old administraive assitant in our office feels I should just take her to a doctor regarding her Bulemia thing.
What do you think -- duct tape & rope?!
She wanted to give blood for WTC & they would not take it -- anemic! My friend said, if it is not good enough for them, it isn't good enough for her.
Her boss, with whom she confides a lot in has specifically asks her about vomitting & she asked me not to tell her, becasue she told her boss, No she does not vomitt.
She had called her cousin who has this problem, but I don't know if she ever connected with her &/or told her?<p>Anyway, any idea for valentines? Supply of plastic vomitt bags! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I have article form internet, but this of course is again lecturing, controling -- it stresses danger, I'm sure she knows that people die from this -- it's like my friend said,these things are like the story where the parent tells their teenege son that masterbat.-- will cause him to go blind & son replies, "Can I do this until I have to get glasses?" She does not want to face reality on this issues.
I suppose, like the SA issues, I could just waite until something really bad happens, like her esophigous rupturing or something?
Later,
HH