H, when telling close friends, told them "not to say anything." He then blew up at a close friend for "telling". Now poeple are starting to know that aren't that close. Some friends called my SIL. She, in turn, called me but sounded extremely down. My stomach did somersaults. The pain started again. I cried uncontrollably with her on the phone. I said I was SO sorry for all this. I said I did not have the power to stop it. I then called another friend just to cry...haven't done that in so long. My marriage is gone. Just another piece of gossip. Nothing.
How did it get to this??? <p>And H, angry...looked ravaged tonight. And he left to be HAPPY. When does the happiness kick in???? When does he stop blaming me? I came home and D was crying...H runs to put his jacket on because he knows "we'll start arguing"...he then finds a speeding ticket notice in the mail. He questions the amount...I reply, "Don't worry about it. I'm not your concern. I don't ask questions about you. Don't worry yourself about me." H wouldn't stop the questioning, when, where, why...and I wouldn't answer. <p>H promised me so much. H promised me a lifetime. Please. How do you get over the promises? The lost future...oh my God, it hurts so much tonight. He thinks we fight all the time. <p>People know. They're shocked. They thought we had a terrific marriage. Thought we were a terrific couple. And H doesn't care. How come I do?

Terrified ~<p>When are you gonna stop listening to your H and start looking and watching?<p>Lets see if we can sort this out.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>People know. They're shocked. They thought we had a terrific marriage. Thought we were a terrific couple. And H doesn't care. How come I do?<hr></blockquote><p>And so what if they are shocked?<p>Do "they" have the power to fix this? Do "they" have the power to change anything? Why do "they" matter?<p>And I find it really interesting that you say: <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>And H doesn't care.<hr></blockquote><p>BUT...before that...you said:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>H, when telling close friends, told them "not to say anything." He then blew up at a close friend for "telling". <hr></blockquote><p>And even better, you said:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>And H, angry...looked ravaged tonight. <hr></blockquote><p>This is a man who doesn't care what "they" think?<p>Why exactly have you both been hiding the state of your marriage if he doesn't care what "they" think?<p>And if he didn't care about the end of your marriage...he wouldn't be so darn angry. I'd be more worried if he was indifferent.<p>He's obviously stressed by the pressure of public shame of having marital problems. He's blaming you...and yes it hurts...but anger is an emotion. He's still emotionally involved.<p>Would you rather calm, cold indifferent detachment?<p>Plan A, PLAN A, PLAN A.<p>You can do this Terri.

Dear T,<p>Hugz, my dear. You need it. Listen, that ravaging man is not your H just a shell of him. You want a shell of a man in your house? Much less an angry shell? Listen to Bramble Rose. That lady is a wise young gal. She tough talked me last year. I often didn't like what she was saying yet, I did the have sense to know to listen to wisdom. For that and more I am forever grateful to B Rose. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Now, we need to get you back on your feet. Remember that he left to be happy but you ain't seen it yet!!! Why? Because it is not there!<p>Remember that. He will now spread out his anger to others so you will not be getting the full impact anymore. That should bring some relief and may bring some support. Look for the positive side to this turn of events. Yes you are now a statistic we all are. So what? Now move forward. Remind yourself of what you have not what you don't have. <p>Now listen and do exactly what I say, left arm over right shoulder, right arm over left shoulder, squeeze......... another MBer taught it to me, it is our hug to you. When you are feeling down, accept our cyber hug. It may make you cry, that is ok. You will smile later. Just don't do it in public.....people will stare [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Hugz,
L.

((((((((( T )))))))))<p>I am so sorry for the pain you are still going through. It DOES get easier to deal with. I know that seems like such a far away place right now, but you're still en route.<p>O is right, BR knows what she's talking about. The reality is starting to hit your H. Good. He needs at least a triple dose of it.<p>When does your H's happiness begin? When he starts looking for it within himself, instead of thinking he'll find it from others. Around that same time is when he will stop completely blaming you. Yes, you had a part in the state of the M, but NEVER enough to warrant your H doing what he's doing. ALWAYS remember that!!!<p>How come you care what others think? Good question. How come? Why does it really matter?<p>Karen<p>p.s. I'm still waiting for an email so we can talk on the phone sometime. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

It is SO good to find responses this morning. I became extremely nauseated last night and had to shut down. <p>Bramble, I'm trying not to listen. I am trying to look but I'm embarassed. My failing marriage is exposed. Isn't that supposed to feel humiliating? I hear that we inspired other couples. We'll never inspire anyone again. I mean, we weren't able to work it out. Maybe I wasn't good enough...my FIL asked me about sex and whether I turned him away too much? I know that "they" don't have the power to do anything but at time, I can't shake this feeling of embarassment and failure!!!<p>I know I can do this, BR. I know I can. Just keep reminding me. <p>O, I don't want the angry shell. I know I don't.
Just hurts like hell..maybe hell is better. Don't know. Trying hard, O. I really am. I hear you. Just keep pushing. Need the cyber hug. <p>Topie, I hope you're right about H and reality. Why do I care about what others think? Because "others" were a big part of our life. We were out all the time. Everywhere. Anywhere. We had lots of friends. Great family. No reason for this to fall apart. Now...I just can't handle the social shame and I am shocked that he appears to be willing to a degree...<p>I will email you. Thanks Topie. I do need a voice.<p>Thanks to all of you. Lot of love back!

Terrified...<p>You are at a point in which plan A is your moment to shine...<p>Take care in this that you lay low in telling others much of anything...(you certainly need those few on which to unload)..but those other friends out there...leave those to your husband to explain...because what i think is happening is that his reasons for the seperation sound as shallow and one sided to himself as they do the people he is telling..
He may well be feeling consequences to his actions...which is a good thing... but oh so icky for him....<p>Yep we all engage in selfish behavior in marriages..but a huge huge catalyst to your husbands behavior is his cyber-buddy... and one certainly questions how much energy is spent by him telling others all about her...When your husband leaves that MINOR (not) detail out..it is hurtful to you...
Poor poor hubby...victim of Terrifieds bad behavior for years?...not even close..<p>And what a truly honorable person you are...to continue to protect him from his own self...you don't call them up and clarify some of the real reasons he left..and you truly feel hurt over his pain...You my dear deserve a Plan A gold star for the day!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>At some point he will come to some type of realization that he needs to take responsibility for what he has done...we all do...but as long as he continues to view the whole world threw his one-sided-it-only-rains-on-me..glasses...don't get sucked into his anger...<p>Your husband will learn the true value of the words "don't tell anyone" as well..<p>Also and I mean this kindly watch how much information is passed onto SIL...she seems to be emotional at times about this...and if that puts you in a unhealthy position don't get sucked into her agenda either...some live for the high drama of others...<p>Terrified your marriage is far far from gone..if it was as bad as your husband likes to pretend it was he would have been long gone..and not questioned a thing...he can barely get past the steps...
peace to you and your home
ARK

You have gotten some great advise here. Please listen to it and let it sink in. <p>I know what you are talking about when you talk about others knowing. It is embarrassing and humiliating if we let it be. You are the only one that can let yourself feel this way. There was a time when I had to walk away from my family. They were being far too destructive to me and my emotional well being. They thought they were helping me by telling me every masty rummor that they had heard or telling me that my WH was not good enough for me and I was stupid for wanting him back. Well guess what, after months of listening to that and becoming very depressed I decided I was the one allowing them to let me feel embarrassed and stupid and I was the only one that could stop those feelings. I took some time away from them. I found people that were willing to stand by me and what I wanted. <p>You said that others can not look up to your marriage after this. How wrong you are. You are showing others the wonderful gift of love and forgiveness. When you put your marriage back together, you can show them how you can make it through something as destructive as an A and still have a great marriage. That is something to be very proud of. You can walk out of your house this very day with your head held high because you are a great person and you are doing a wonderfully loving thing. You are standing by someone that hurt you very badly. You took a look inside and you decided that there were things that you could improve upon and you have worked on those things. You are a better person now than you were when this started. Be very proud. Refuse to let anyone or anything let you feel embarrassed or humiliated. <p>Hugs to you. And hang in there.

Hi T,
Checking in on you tonight. did you do the cyber hug? Hey, hug that little one of yours also. I poured my love to my child. Might have smothered him a bit. He keeps wanting to stay with mom. I have to remind him that he has his own room and is a big boy. He is a bit protective of me and for good reason. He has seen a lot. More than any child should but less than others. Still it is a lot. <p>T, it will get better for you. Can't guarantee it will get better for your H but for you it will. Stick it out here, post and vent here just as you are doing. Hon, it will pass. The pain you are going through brings back the same feelings to me. Last year was not that long ago. I still remember and vividly. <p>Wanna hear the laundry bag story? Hm..... I am sure many others have some funny horror stories out there that may soothe your ravaged soul. <p>Hugz,
L.

Was a little under the weather today at work...could barely walk from stomach pain and nausea. Things are taking their toll, I guess...but I received some wonderful posts. I thank God for finding MB. It's God's way of giving us hope.<p>Ark, I blew my Plan A tonight. Didn't shine at all. Asked him why he wasn't wearing his ring tonight...I shouldn't have even asked and was wrong to question. He replied that I shouldn't hold on to any hope just because he's wearing it. He wears it just because people at work don't know. Made me sad. Then he became angry because I said something to one of his friends about him NOT committing to counselling. He just BLEW up and starting ripping pictures apart. Sad night. I basically told him to leave because he's out of control.<p>My fault that I asked...at least I know I was wrong.<p>Funny thing Ark, I really believed what you said today about my marriage not being "gone". Tonight is another story. <p>Sinking, Thank-you for posting wonderful ideas. People, caring as they are, can also help to destroy in different ways. You've made me feel much better about what I must do.<p>O, Thanks for checking in. As you will see from my post, I screwed up tonight and took a couple of steps backwards. AND I PROMISED MYSELF. You can shake your head and tell me you told me so but the cyber hug is helping and tomorrow is another day. BTW, I just finished hugging my D in the rocking chair. Little ones definitely don't deserve this hell.

Terri,
I thought yur replies to your H about why he needs not be concerned with your tickets and all were good.
You know that I struggle with insecruities. I just realised that I can bring it down to one thing. I feel insecure about how my DW really feels about me. I think most people in our situation would have very similar feelings -- Our Respectives S's in their own way have taken specific acts that are in direct conflict with a person that loves us -- the A thing. And sense these events they (our repsective S's) have not done a lot to reinforce the idea that they are remorseful and most importantly, they have not generally acted in a way to assure us that they they do in fact love us.
Now, one thing is sure, our Respective S just do not think like we do. I believe you may be like me in that if our love & committment to our S's was being questioned, we would read books, talk to friends and surf the net to try & find different ways to show our love & commitment -- we may even actually tell them, over & over that we love them & that we are sorry & that it will never happen again. Gee what a novel idea, huh? Unfortunately, I whish I knew why, but this just does not seem to happen with the WS that we hear about here! Gee, that may be a clue, huh
Now, when we don't hear these words or see any affirmative actions, different from before & in particular if our respective S's are negative, angry & abusive towards us, I don't think any reasonable person would not understand that we have some insecure feelings! I would think it would be perfectly natural for anyone having this experience to wonder about our respective S's true feeling towards us, I should say, "loving" feelings!
This is where to me the idea of "Plan A" gets confusing. As I CONTIUNUE TO LEARN ABOUT WHAT THIS PLAN A means -- I believe it means that we are not to be mean spirited & unkind to our S & that we are to do our best to make the best possible favorable impression on them.
Now here is the difficult part. Our respective S's have not read the same material, nor do they appear to really care -- they prefer to act the way they want & without any real regards to our feelings -- it appears they are highly motivated to act the way they have learned to act to get their own way & to meet their needs --- WE shall say in a selfish manner!
From our perspective we want to resolve our marital conflict. The idea I have (which may not be entirely according to the intended MB principles) is that if we want to win them back -- we need to do things and act perhaps like it was when we were dating.
If on the other hand, our respective S's continue to treat us as scums of the earth with verbel & emetional abuse, on top of the A's, this can only be tolerated for so long. Think about -- if we were dating someone & we find that they are faithful & we continue to be very nice and cordual & wer'e not being disrectful, yet the other party shows no real signs of admiration, affection & is abusive; would we continue dating this person?? I don't think so!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] This could be a reason the other person is dis-respectful ... I have read that people treat us the way we allow them to -- they might be saying under their breath that they would never stick around if someone treated them in same way! If this is so, then you can understand an unlying contentment for lack of respect.
My DW happens to be treating me with some respect & admiration over the last couple days. Now this was after I got upset at her for what I thought was very negative treatment -- I have had these blow ups in the last few months to the point where I talk about the fact that if she does not like me, why does she not move out. AT least in these examples, after a cooling off, she has come back and been nice --- for a while at least. Now, how long does this dance go on? Who can say?? There are times of promise, then a backslide. This is what we call the rollercoaster ride.
I am rambling on here. What I am trying to build up to is that IMHO, the principles ascribed to in the Dobson book are sometimes the most effective way to get some peace & ultimately win our S back. If we let the tiger loose & they don't come back, so be it, it wasn't ours to begin with & in the mean we have protected our emotional state & ended the emotional, verbal abuse!!
This is actaully no much different from the plan A & Plan B thing discussed here -- Dobson book just another way of presenting this. The main thing is that we have been put through enough with their respective infidelities, we don't need to put up with the verbel abuse on top of that!!
From some of your descriptions, I feel you should seriously consider going to an attorney & getting a restraining order against him coming over --
From where I sit, you have had enough -- he says he doesn't want to be with & he is not satified with just that, he has this compulsion to keep coming back and punching & kicking you so to speak, like you were his own personal punching bag. How much punishment can a person take, until drastic steps are needed -- a change of strategy.
Your D I would think cannot help but notice these tirates & outbursts of lackof repsect, this is not healthy for her either.
I am not a vilolent person, but from what you describe many times I have these feelings that I want to come over & punch his lights out -- He sounds like he could be the poster boy for "Mr. Bully" --At least a self centered adolence who needs to be restrained & put into detention!
I know he is the father of your D & you evidently love this guy & we have to be civil about these things & cannot fight abuse with abuse, but really, I understand & feel your frustration.
Please continue to think about the best ways to protect yourself & your D! Put him on the back burner for a while -- for you to put up with his antiques simply re-inforces his bad behavior -- you do not deserve to be treated in such a dis-respectful fashion!!
Love & prayers to you,
Hh<p>[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

T --
I also hope you will rethink your strategy.<p>A plan A full of LB'ers isn't really worth doing. And I see you going along good for a day or two then a bad night of LB'ing. Another couple good days then LB'ers again.<p>And I see your H contributing to your LB'ing by being critical, judgemental, and frankly verbally abusive. Nobody could be in that environment without LB'ing.<p>When you're in this much emotional pain, and being contantly subjected to more -- there is just no way you can do a really good Plan A.<p>I can tell you're not ready for Plan B -- but try to detach. Don't feel as though you're giving up on him or your marriage. Think of this as a game or strategy. Let him really have a taste of what it might be like to lose you. Give him a taste of reality. Why are you so accessable to him? Don't let him push your buttons. Be strong.

And Lexxxy did not take nearly as long as I did to say very similar thing -- I like the way she expressed herself -- thanks Lexxxy!
I think the let him get a taste of what it is like w/o you, is a must at this point -- I feel it usually creates a turn around, but no guartantees. And even if you don't see a turn around, you need a break from him and the torment he creates!
Keep in touch,
Hh

I also recommend that you confide in someone about the real reason that you're seperated.<p>Your title is "painful that everyone knows". You have no reason to feel this way. You did nothing wrong T! <p>I was soooo reluctant to let the news out. But you know what? We're all human. Look at how many of us there are just on this board.<p>And you, as the BS, did not deserve this. And I think part of the reality your H should face is people knowing the WHOLE story.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lexxxy:
<strong>I also recommend that you confide in someone about the real reason that you're seperated.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Again,
I agree with Lexxxy --
I do not recall that you have talked about the accusations you describe that your H seems to bring up about how you forced him into this because of how you were to him and all. You do have to explain, because no matter, you did force him into breaking his wedding vows -- he has to take responsibility for that.
I get the sense that he (and your FIL) are trying to shift the blame to you -- don't accept it!!
He made his choices w/o your help!!
Keep Care of yourself!
HH

Wanted to let all of you know that I've read your posts (three times) and in between meetings. Haven't had time to type a solid response BUT...bad day. H sent me an email after yesterday's "outburst" indicating that "this is all my fault...when am I going to stop blaming him and looking in the mirror...that my changes are too late for him but maybe good for someone else, he's sure...that I'm trying to destroy him and his relationship with our D...etc, etc. Awful.<p>Hurt me bad. Normal for an angry WS? Maybe. But Lex, as you can see, I'm having a problem detaching but I am aware that I HAVE TO!!!<p>HH, Incredible and insightful response...you're right.<p>I will respond later...have to run back to a meeting BUT I NEED YOU GUYS. H is STILL SO CONVINCED and I know it's the way I'm dealing that is keeping him there.

You've been told in a previous post, er, it was suggested to you ( [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ) to tell the truth to anyone who asks you what happened. You are NOT the one who will be looked down upon. <p>You say that others thought of your M to your H as wonderful, if not perfect, definitely a 'role model' couple. Didn't you think the same way too? (kick in the butt time). Why does it matter if they don't see you that way anymore? Is there something wrong with being human and having faults? I think not!<p>IMO, you're not able to detach well from your H because you're not doing enough for YOU. If you keep yourself so busy (not that working full time AND having a toddler isn't enough for most of us), then he won't be as much of a necessity to you. <p>Where's that independant streak you had before your H came along??? GO FIND HER!!! She may need to remind you that you don't need your H to be happy. But should he get out of the fog, you would love to share your happiness with him.<p>Perhaps setting a goal for starting a plan B would help you to focus on your plan A? That date wouldn't have to be written in stone, so as it approached, you could always change it. It's all part of the strategy of looking way ahead at the end of this road, as opposed to focusing on every little bump along the way (LBs).<p>You know the drill... keep on posting on here whenever you need to. Oh, and the next time you're DYING to ask your H a question (or make a comment - like on the wedding ring), just tell him, "Excuse me one moment please". Then run to your computer, post it on here, add a few 'action' words to describe your feelings towards him, and then go back to your H with a huge smile on your face and continue with your plan A. ALWAYS listen to that little voice inside of you. You KNOW it told you NOT to ask the question before you did, but you did it anyways. Gut instincts RARELY lie to you.<p>Take care,
Karen

Gosh Terrified,<p>I read your posts and see my own situation. My H treats me the exact same way. No matter what happens--it is my fault. He blames me for everything--including his relationship with the kids. Amazing.<p>I have found that I have to have no contact with him. He knows how to turn the knife--and I have realized that I can't do it anymore. I am tired of the abuse. Eventually, if you relationship with your H stays the same--you won't have any love left--which is where I think I am now. It is so sad. We had a good family....but you can't change their FOG---they have to realize what they have done and want to change.<p>So, do something for you and don't let him do this to you anymore. It is not easy--but you won't be so emotionally battered and you will be able to better focus on your daughter.

Topie, I'm now thinking of that as H become more of an A**H*** (excuse my language) but I promised myself I wouldn't sink to the level he finds himself. <p>I did think our marriage was wonderful but my H tells me I was clueless. That I should have known that he was unhappy. Should I have known even if he didn't tell me? I really feel shock but he continually reminds me that I have no right. According to him, my shock is "ruining" him..."if only I had gone along with him and told everying this was mutual." H is also livid that I am telling people, when asked, that H was not interested in counselling. H says "I went to 2 sessions..." "Yes, but in both sessions, you said you unwilling to commit to the marriage and would not return." <p>You're right. I am not able to detach well. I do have to keep busier. Just that, and I wonder about this sometimes, did you ever feel that there are some people are not trustworthy relative to this situation? I always sensed envy of me and H (on the part of particular people) because of our love and commitment to one another (joke!) and because we had everything else to go with it. No mortgage, great incomes, great families, bright future, just plain happy...and these people look at themselves and say, wow, we're so much better, my H would NEVER leave...did you ever feel like that? Ok, maybe it's my paranoia but sometimes, it's just better to be alone to find strength but most people just don't understand MB principles.<p>I'm trying to find that independant streak...I was famous for it and not it just appears to be gone!!
Thanks for posting and caring.<p>Hi Misery, Hope you're doing okay. It's sad isn't it to see them so angry? I'm slowly building a protective wall around me. I don't know if it's losing love or wanting to shield myself from his abuse...or whether the wall may ever come down again once it's complete. Thanks for posting and your support.