So here it is everyone.....i am at the Crossroads of my pathetic life. Its been a little over 2 weeks now from the D-Day and after much long conversations and discussions, i am beginning to see just how much help i am gonna need, professional help that is.
My H and i have been together everyday since and it has been good for us but the triggers still happen to him about my A....something that i am expecting to happen but with your advice, i know that it all takes time and patience on my part too. We, however, believe strongly that we will be able to work this out....and both be better people individually from it.
Tonight we had a long discussion about whats happened so far and we touched on many things.....one of the things we talked about was about me going back to the office Monday. Its something i am dreading to do even though i got ****loads of work piled up...i know that being back at the office will mean that my H will be freaking out with suspicions about me calling the OM....i dont blame him for feeling that way, not after all my lies....
You see, my A did not die a natural death, it just stopped dead in its tracks, so i dont expect my H to trust me being alone. i have since, however, written a letter to the OM as adviced in Dr Harley's book and i have done as much as i can to reassure my H that i will have absolutely NO contact with the OM. But how can i say anything now when nothing i say is anything that my H will believe? Its so frustrating and tiring bcos i am trying so hard to tell him the truth everytime he asks a question (and u must understand that i have been a compulsive liar up until now) but i always get that look from him like he doesnt believe anything.....can someone tell me how i can let him know that i am telling him the truth and how i can prove to him that i will have NO contact with the OM?
i am just going crazy now and need to know what anyone has to say to me.....esp from JL, BTDT, Freddy or anyone else out there....
Thing is right now, when i say i am at my Crossroads, i mean that i have to come to terms with choosing the way of life that i always had....the promiscuity, lies, deceit, enjoying the attention of the opposite sex, etc....OR....the rough road to recovery towards building a better life for myself and my H after this A.
In my soul i have already made that decision...as hard as its gonna be, i need to work on having a better life and an honest one at that! I love my H with all my soul and i cannot express enough remorse for what i have done to hurt him. I know that many of the BS posting here have probably heard this before and it all sounds as if i am just saying this or acting this out so that it will appease the beast....i am willing to heal and get help and work on a better and stronger relationship with my H.
by the way, some of you know now that my H has been posting here too and i only just found that out......we do not post anything together, we usually do it when the other one's not looking. This forum has been our one source of sanity since the D-Day....so thank you all for your continued help.
We have another 2 weeks before i take a long leave of absence from work and go away with him....its something that we have to do and i hope that being away from the place where the A happened will help us move to another level of healing.....<p>I hope to hear from anyone soon......good luck and take care [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

i forgot to add something to my previous post....as a WW, how can i feel good about myself after what i have done esp when my H tells me he still loves me tremendously? All i feel about myself now is i hate myself and i dont deserve him or his love and that i am really not worth anything when it comes down to it.....after the pain i caused, how can it be that he still loves me?<p> [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Compulsiveliarww just reading your message is proof enough, to me anyway, that YOU ARE WORTHY to be loved by your H.<p>You admit that the road you chose to recovery will be a hard one, as opposed to the one you left behind of 'the promiscuity, lies, deceit, enjoying the attention of the opposite sex, etc....'.<p>I am a divorced BS and my xW did the same thing to me. Unfortunately for us, we never found MB and our M died.<p>But it is not to late for you and your H.<p>Gee I sound like Jacob Marley talking to Scrooge [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Good luck and God bless you and your H.<p>Joe

Hi CL,<p>Wow, if anything I appreciate your honesty!! Your last post does bode well! As a BS, of course I'm always ever so curious about what's going on in a WS mind. Only if you feel up to it, I'd love to see your thoughts on a set of questions I posed a while ago, here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=015331
(I realize it might be awkward with your H posting, so no pressure.)<p>But that's secondary. What I do want to say is that you're going to be facing the greatest challenges of your life, coming up. But you sound like you've got a good dose of rational thought to guide you - something I wish my WW had right now. (She's still seduced by the "fantasy" of it - even after 6 months.)<p>As for your H... I think the idea of you two going away is super. I imagine my WW and I doing something similiar if we ever get to the point of recovery. You have such a powerful weapon with rational thought right now - if you're knowledgeable about everything here at MB, SAA, etc. - it'll help you understand both him and you, allowing you to be something of an observer. (My IC once told me, "Don't be judge, jury and executioner." - I think it was her way of saying "Don't LB".)<p>As for your self-hate... I don't know what to say. I think you need to work through it, probably with the help of a good IC. Consider an IC/MC combination, since personal work can dovetail into joint work later.<p>Do you feel like you're experiencing anything like withdrawal right now? I'd suggest Plan A'ing your H, as much as you can. Stay strong, and let your head guide you... your heart will follow.

Compulsive ~<p>I'm married to someone who lies about anything and everything. Since we've been in recovery, I've seen that he has made monumental efforts to be truthful about everything....and yet...I don't trust him. <p>We have been married 11.5 years. He's only been truthful - radically honest - for 8 months. So you see - I've had YEARS of knowing that almost every word out of his mouth was a lie...and only a few months, after experiencing the worst betrayal anyone can experience...to learn to trust him.<p>The thing I learned about lying is that people who lie do it to maintain control. So I think the answer that you really need to seek is what it is that you fear so badly that you can not trust or respect your H enough to be honest with him. Because, and I am sure he instinctively understands this, your lack of willingness to be honest with him not only conveys a lack of love and caring - it also says that you do not respect him or trust him to make decisions on his own. Every time you lie...you take away HIS freedom of choice. It gives you control by the fact that you have secret information withheld in order to control or manipulate events and outcomes.<p>So what are you so afraid of? I am sure your fears are many in number - but I'm willing to bet that there is one underlying fear at the root of this. This fear and how to counter it is probably what you should be seeking out in counseling.<p>In the meantime, your H is not going to trust you. You can't "make" (ie control) him into believing you. It's time to let go of your H, and let him choose on his OWN time, when and if to trust you.<p>If you want him to trust you, it means you are going to have to consistently provide him with radical honesty. You will need to go to every possible length, no matter how inconvenient or ridiculous, to prove that you are honest with both your words and your actions.<p>And thats another thing. He has learned that your words are nothing more than tools of deception...manipulation...control..and betrayal.<p>It's absolutely crazy for you to think that only 3 weeks after DDay that NOW he should be believing you. He may NEVER trust you again my dear - thats the consequence of lying.<p>What you have to do is show with your actions - every single action that you take - that you love him, trust him, and respect him. You will have to make sure down the smallest iota of your words that everything matches - words and actions.<p>You may think I'm overreacting or a bit harsh...but believe me ...I know what it is like to be in your H's shoes. Do you want to be married? You will have to let go of your pride and face your fears - and you are going to have to drop ALL expectations of reciprocation of trust from your H.<p>Good luck.

I'm on my way out the door, but wanted to respond to this.<p>The way you can prove to your H that you can be trusted and are no longer lying to him is when your words match your actions.<p>And from what you have posted regarding being a chronic liar with him, I'd say proving yourself will take an enormous amount of TIME and PATIENCE on both your behalfs.<p>My prayers are with you both. I know how hard this can be. You should be proud of yourself for taking the high road and coming clean. I commend you and wish all WS's would follow your lead.<p>Love & God Bless,
Jo<p>[ February 16, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Rosie,<p>I have a question about what you posted. <p>That "FEAR" the person who lies has ..... does it have to be about their spouse, or can it be something innate in themselves? Perhaps about something they have grown to experience and use thru life, or about something in their childhood?<p>Jo<p>[ February 16, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

JR, i wanted to say thank you for your sincerity and i have below answers to your questionaire. I have discussed with my H about this bcos i do feel uncomfortable that he is also posting on this site so we haved agreed that he will not post anything anymore and that it will be exclusively for me. Thats why i am posting my answers here so that no one can say that i am being insincere or dishonest about what i post here bcos my H is reading it too....<p>1. What were the main stressors in your relationship with OP? If it was a stressor that lead to the demise of the relationship, what was it, and how severe was it?
>> there were no stressors in the relationship with OP ( i take it that the word means "pressure" or "strain" perhaps?) <p>2. Was the destruction of your A an "event" or gradual "process"? I.e., big blow up as with Sue/Greg in SAA, or just simply got tired of it, missed BS, etc.?
>> neither.....the A died a sudden death....in other words, the A was not TOTALLY destructed....seems like its still hanging in the air, which is why this letter that i have written to OP should give it full destruction.<p>3. When there were times when you "warmed up" to BS, was it because of low-points with OP, or some other factors?
>> my A was a total separate life i was leading and i was always someone else with my H and with OP<p>4. Was there anything in particular that BS did to help or hurt their cause (the most)? Or was everything from them more-or-less tuned out?
>> my H found out about the A way before i realised it so this question really doesnt apply to me much, i dont think<p>5. Did you notice changes in BS? If so, did you manifest that in any visible way, or just noted it in your mind?
>> he knew about the A and i should have seen the small changes in him like when we talked over the phone and his line of questioning....but i kept them in my mind<p>6. Specifically for WS who "stayed at home" during the A (i.e. fence sitters):<p>a. Would you ever have made a decision on your own, or was something like Plan B necessary?<p>b. Did your state of fence sitting help sustain your feelings for OP? I.e., if you'd been out alone in the same dynamic, would it have led to a quicker death of the A?<p>7. We've seen so many examples of "spontaneous" realization from the WS - the clearing of the fog, with a sudden renewed interest in BS. If this happened to you, what do you think caused it?
>> what happened was me seeing him again and being with him again (he was away on business for 4 months when my A began) and loads of conversation and discussions and definitely the analytical mind of his<p>8. What did you think of Plan B, if you went through that? How did it affect you, in terms of your relationship with OP?
>> not going through Plan B or Plan A<p>9. Did you ever compare BS and OP? Did that influence the death of the A?
>> yes, i did make comparisons.....and yes, it had some (not much) influence in the death of A<p>I added this after-the-fact:<p>10. If OP had never taken to LB'ing, or doing whatever else contributed to the demise of the A, could you have honestly seen it going on to the point of following through with D and eventual remarriage to OP?
>> i never experienced LB'ing with OP bcos our affair was only to fulfill an EN that my H did not provide at that point of time. i do not think that even if it didnt work out with my H, i will not be able to following through and remarry to OP...<p>11. A common thing appears to be that sex seems better with OP - all the emotional aspects to enhance it - despite how good it might have been with BS in the past. How did this affect you when it came time to have sex with BS again?
>> like i mentioned, the A was not a sexual one, but an emotional one. Sex with H has always been the best bcos he fulfills me in ways that no one else can. But the sex now after discovery of A has been a little strained <p>I hope that you have comments to my answers JR. you do understand that my A was all about fulfilling an EN and not sexual and that there was in no way that the OP was LB'ing with me either. my H was away on business and i was resentful and i did what i shouldnt have done. But if you read my earlier posts, you will see that i have patterned behaviour with seeking attention from the opposite sex and that i have always been a compulsive liar. One of the reasons why i am on this forum is bcos i feel as if i am alone and it makes me feel like i am not alone when i have you and others who give me sound advice and comments about helping me work towards healing myself. i cannot hurt anyone anymore, esp my H and bcos of the help and advice i have been getting here, i am slowly but surely healing better than i thought i would be.<p>BrambleRose, thank you for being curtly honest with me....thats something i need to hear too and i am thankful for that. I am beginning to see that radical honesty and being truthful are very impt....i am trying everyday bcos i never had to be and the one thing that you said in your reply to me about having FEAR in my life and wanting control....wow...you hit it spot on!! i have always loved to be in control and to control whats going on around me and if i dont have control, i run away from it...as for the fear i have, i can think of one right now, which may pertain to whats going on with me now....i believe its the fear of being alone and being left alone by the one i love. Maybe that explains my promiscuity and number of lovers and boyfriends that i have had and had affairs on the past 10 years or so....this part of my personality disorder i will seek professional help with bcos i have finally come to terms with myself....its amazing that i never thought i had a problem before this happened....<p>Resilient, thank you for your prayers....i hope that i explained a little about the FEAR that Rose was talking about bcos i know firsthand what they are and the one i mentioned above was just one of the many fears that i have....yes, it mostly stems from childhood and i have many....one of which is growing up without a father so perhaps thats why i seek attention from men?? [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Justanotherjoe, i wanted to say thank you for believing in me more than i believe myself...i am sorry to hear about your situation and i am glad that you found this site....everyone here has been wonderful and honest and its definitely shown me that honesty really is something that i should not fear bcos i always lie.....so hang in there and good luck to you!<p>Keep talking to me guys, you are truly helping me keep in the right path...thank you all again and i wish you the best in your life too.

((((((**compulsive**)))))) here's a big old hug for you!<p>Of course you don't "deserve" to be loved!!! NONE of us are loved because we deserve it ...... we are loved because we are ourselves [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] And, we are loved in spite of ourselves sometimes.<p>When you were a little girl .... did you experience unconditional love from your parents? Or, did you grow up knowing that only little girls who *behaved nicely* were worthy of mommy and daddy's love? Did you learn as a little girl, that only by making up stories about yourself ... and that if you did not make mistakes... you felt worthy of love?<p>Love is a gift my dear. Please accept the gift of your husbands love and do not insult him by assuming you need to earn it.<p>Love to you.....<p>Pepper/Yesterday

Pepper/Yesterday
Thank you for your love and hugs....it has helped put a smile on my face and some warmth in my heart......<p>When you were a little girl .... did you experience unconditional love from your parents? Or, did you grow up knowing that only little girls who *behaved nicely* were worthy of mommy and daddy's love? Did you learn as a little girl, that only by making up stories about yourself ... and that if you did not make mistakes... you felt worthy of love?<p>When i was a little girl, my sister and i both were spoilt rotten and even after our father passed on, we still were protected. But we didnt and never were taught what love was ever. We just knew that if we did something right we will get a nice little gift or a new dress. And Yes, we had to behave nicely to be worthy of anyone's love.....i did have to make stories up when in junior high and secondary school and even up till college! So what does that say of me apart from the fact that i am and have always been a compulsive liar who craves attention (esp from the opp sex) and has now ruined her marriage......i am so messed up now that i am seriously considering sleeping and never waking up.<p>But thanks for your love and nice words......

No no no,,,, just in the news.....too much sleep is not healthy!!!! Ok, throwing that in there to force a silly smile! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Now, you need to realize the positive points in your life before you decide to do make it more stupid. Your decision to have an A was dumb. Ok, now do you want to be dummer? No. Ok, now move forward. Act smart. Be honest. Rebuild trust, love and loyalty. Rebuild your faith.<p>Hugz,
L.

Hey Resilient ~ you asked:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>That "FEAR" the person who lies has ..... does it have to be about their spouse, or can it be something innate in themselves? Perhaps about something they have grown to experience and use thru life, or about something in their childhood?
<hr></blockquote><p>Fear comes in all shapes and sizes. I don't think it is necessarily about their spouse - in fact its more than likely something about themselves rather than their spouse. When lying is done to control - I think its done for all the same reasons that any co-dependent/controller manipulates.<p>I learned when I did my 4th step in Al-Anon that I had both strengths and weakness. My weaknesses (my character defects) were not rooted in the fact that I was a "bad" person - it was rooted in my underlying gibbering fear of not being good enough. Learning to recognize when my actions are based on that fear has helped me tremendously in overcoming my character defects.

Speaking of fear, I found this little litany that I thought you might be interested in compulsiveliarww.<p>LITANY AGAINST FEAR
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.<p>Frank Herbert, Dune <p>I want to say thank you for your reply. I am glad that I found MB and the forum because if I ever get lucky and meet a wonderful lady to marry, I will have the knowledge and tools on how to nurture our love.<p>And before you consider doing anything desperate, DON'T and just come to us MB forum junkies (this place is addictive you know) [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Good luck and God bless.<p>Joe<p>[ February 17, 2002: Message edited by: justanotherjoe ]</p>