k here is my story in a nutshell. I confronted my wife on the 10th that I knew about her affair while I was away on business. I knew while I was on my business trip, approximately 1 month before coming home. I knew from a gut feeling that turned into suspiscions and having friends and contacts follow and report to me. Reluctantly I came back home, even though I wanted to go and stay with friends in another city. At this point she was still not aware of my knowledge of the affair, and she was still in contact with OM. For example, over 30 calls to and from OM (since I arrived on the 1st) sightings of him at her shop more than once, e.t.c... We all know the routine I am sure. Anyway, days went by where I tried hard to show her it was time for honesty, gently putting the bug in her ear that she wasn't going to be able to avoid telling me - but in the end it took me breaking her down in a long dialogue, telling her of my knowledge of the A. Then she finally admitted to the A. <p> Since that day - in her slow admissions and my constant dilligence - the A has gone from 1 night of sex and a freindship to an entire relationship with hand holding, lewd dancing, long conversations, and a great deal of sex. She was so intent with this OM that she stopped using condoms with him and subsequently possibly contracted an STD, which I may have. <p>All along I have been on the same roller coaster everyone here has gone through. My feelings were of suicide, of having an affair myself, leaving on the next available flight, finding the OM and hurting him bad, all the usual stuff.<p>My thing is this: I cannot begin to heal until she is being totally honest, and with my wife being honest has never been an option in her entire life. She has lied compulsively for her entire life, she is abnormally craves the attention of men, and she continues to this day to hold close the pattern behaviour of "a lie is easier than the truth." All this I am just finding out from her, through this program at MB, and other research. So at every stage of TRUTH she offers me, there are still more lies, more things hidden. <p>For example: last evening we went through another discovery session, another "I never told you this" after almost an hour of me requesting her total honesty. So I am dealing with more new information again. I have heard the words "that's it, there is nothing more to tell u" at least 6000 times in the last few days, only to find something else out later on. The clock keeps going right back to 0.<p>OK here's the deal: her definite promise to not contact OM was on the 14th of Feb, the day I discovered her continued communication with him. Now here I am - her having swore that she has disclosed everything, and I wonder what else will I find out? I am at the breaking point now, but not because of what I am learning, only that she has remained dishonest. I can deal with what she tells me, but I can't deal with her lying to me anymore. I hate this digging, this spy stuff, I revile the person I have had to become to try and uncover her future lies, and I wonder if you - gentle reader - can tell me if I should just plan B, (which for me means plan Z - finito) I love her so much and have tried my best to be understanding - but at each corner there is new evidence, new findings that lead me to only 1 conclusion - that she is not capable of total honesty and still playing both ends against the middle. WHAT IN THE HELL CAN I DO NOW? <p>She has posted here but I will not read her posts because I feel that her seeking advise from you wonderful people can only help her more if she knows I will not oversee everything. This will hopefully lead to her not omitting things from you all that she may feel uncomfortable telling me at first. <p>I read in the book SAA that everyone has a breaking point. Maybe it wasn't in the book but in the forums, I dunno. Anyway, I am extremely close to my breaking point with this woman. She has done so much to hurt me, us, our love, I am even suffering physically from this selfishness of hers with possibly contracting a STD. But yet I try and try to let her see - just be honest and I will be there for u. She still lies. I know that she is thinking she can't tell me she misses him, that she feels compelled to contact him - they spent alot of time together and talked a great deal and I have to be an idiot to not understand this. I am worried that by her not admitting that to me that she is allowing herself the possibility of communication in the future. A kind of "what he don't know won't hurt him." <p>She had an entire secret life with him, with new friends, his relatives, everything. She knows his mother, she has mutual friends whom even in the end of this have continually informed her of him and his life. I even have learned about her becoming jealous of him at a night when they were out. If this woman could only come to a point of honesty I could forgive the whole thing and move forward - I have come to that realization only yesterday. But she can't it seems. Does this mean I should start packing? I feel I should > if her honesty is not going to manifest. Since last night it seems like my pain will constantly be beginning again through a new admission, a new lie, e.t.c..., is there anything productive by me being here. All I know is that I love her more than I ever have loved a woman, even after all this crap and moral depravity - and I am continually being devastated by her. <p>Is there anything you guys can suggest for me as to a SOP (standard operating procedure) now? I feel lost and confused. I don't want to lose her because the part of her that doesn't lie, isn't caught up in riddles and drama, well she is the most beautiful person I have ever known - inside and out. And as a footnote, I understand that she is going through pain as well, total agony at times with knowledge of the extent of damage done, I am worried about her in that respect. I am worried that we will LB this tremendous love we once had (and still do) into the ground. I know I have been very guilty of angry outbursts and all kinds of crap. Anyway, that's my story, if anyone can talk with me I would appreciate it.

Hi, I know what your going thru SUCKS, we are glad that you are here, at times like these its important to have a support group in place to help you find your way right now.<p>First I would recommend that you take a look at WATs quick start guide, a handy link is in my signature at the bottom. <p>Second, do not do anything irrational right now, such as getting a girlfriend, selling property, ect ect.<p>Your off to a good start, well as good as you can be with having read SAA, there are lots more titles that you will probably like to get into your library. Check out the MB bookstore.<p>READ, READ, READ, PRACTICE WHAT YOU HAVE LEARNED AND THEN READ SOME MORE. I have found that the more information you have the better you will be to be ready to face this head on, you can also start applying the MB principals in your everyday life, it will help you get ready for "THE BIG GAME".<p>This forum is an excelent place to vent/learn/inspire. Keep posting and let us know whats going on, likely your situation will NOT be unique, there are others that have dealt/are dealing with the same situation you are in.<p>Last note, this may seem impossible at times, but just remember that you are not alone, you have just become part of the family, and we care about you! Keep yourself together, its important, ask questions, we may not have all the answers but there are alot of people who can offer you much in the way of advice. Let me know if you need anything else.<p>email: digitalslavery@lameindustries.com

Lying is really tough isn't it?<p>Can you give Steve Harley a call about your situation? I've posted to your wife, and she didn't respond. I'd like to think that she really wants to reform...but I know myself from living with a compulsive liar that they can say all the right stuff, and even believe that they are telling the truth and mean it, and yet mean something totally different than what 99% of the planet would understand.<p>I got to a point with my H that if he said the sky was blue - I'd go out and check for myself.<p>What should you do? I don't really know. I was headed to court before my H decided to stop lying and to drop his OW. I've watched him make monumental changes and yet he still struggles with the honesty thing. He's getting better every day though, and the lies are no longer about really bad stuff. He is learning to confront issues rather than lie. It makes it rocky at times...but for me...to see him truely work at it gives me reason to hope and stay.<p>I can completely understand your despair. I do think you are too new at the affair stage to make life changing decisions. Get into counseling - preferably with Steve - and give it 6 months before you decide what to do. Steve will probably be able to have a recommendation for you as to staying or going within only a few months or less.<p>Hang in there, the rollercoaster is horrible - but one way or another you will survive.

Hang in there, man. I've had it easy compared to a lot of folks here, and I'm hoping there's some wisdom in what I say. Like Bramble Rose said, keep cutting down through the lies. I've suggested that your wife change her user name to indicate her change of heart. Just from her post, it sounds like she genuinely wants to tell you everything, but memory comes in spurts. What my H and I did was we sat down (me with paper and pen in hand). He remembered the week of the incident and did a day-by-day. He told me what was said at every turn and I wrote it down so that I could reference it if I had questions. There are still details that are missing as he says he can't remember them. I think he doesn't remember some major details and so withholds that info so as not to hurt me. Your wife, I believe has been traumatized and it sounds (with the limited info I have) that she tells you honestly what she remembers. If you can say that, keep holding on and sit down and do a play-by-play with her. It's easier to remember that way. She also seems very remorseful esp. about the STD. You might also want to watch her for suicidal tendencies and have someone help you with that. If OM is out of the picture and you have committed to putting this business behind you, hold on and give her the benefits of your doubt. If it turns out that she lies when she tells you new info, then reconsider all that I have said. But, if she's truthful, then it will definitely take time to pan out. Do things to keep yourself strong, exercise and do fun things. Try to do fun things with her. That will help you build new memories and give you a break from the grief of the A. I am praying for the two of you. Keep hanging in there.

Listen to the advice you have been given.<p>BTW your story is almost identical to danielsan1000 (BS) and his W,compulsiveliarww(WS). They, just like you, are new arrivals and I think it would help you if you read their threads.<p>Your wife also needs to accept the fact that her compulsive lying is an illness that needs to be treated because beyond the destruction of your M is the destruction of her.<p>Good luck and God bless.<p>Joe

Thanks to everyone for the words of inspiration. I always look hard for this advise because honestly, since the DDay it has been the words of you kind folks that have kept me fighting instead of fleeing.<p>JustanotherJoe I am danielsan1000, I changed my user name because I thought I should not be so anonymous. My real name is Harley (first name) ironic isn't it!!?<p>I came to realize my wife was posting on here by accident, and decided that if we both were posting seeking advise we would not read each others threads, so that we could more intently focus on the problems we are having instead of worrying about overseeing the others thoughts. I did read a few though, and like I said in previous posts, her words have spoken volumes to my resolve to stay with her.<p>Bramble, thank you so much for your words and believe me when I say I can relate to your situation. My inherent difficulty here is that I never knew of this side of my wife, not until I got back from this trip. I mean realistically I knew she was a bit flirty and all that (she is beautiful) but I never knew it went to this extent. I always thought of her as my one true thing, my guiding light and my bastion of faith and loyalty. Of all the women I have been with in my life, this was the one I thought I could trust the most. <p>I have come to learn that there has always been a secret and thoughtless side to her, one that finds it so easy to hurt with careless disregard. And having heard of her choice of friends, I can see why it would be easy to make the wrong choice when it comes to fidelity because most - if not all - are WS's themselves. It's a kind of sick little circle here in Singapore and my wife (I have come to find out) is at dead center.<p>I can safely say that I am no less paranoid of her and the future now, but more willing to fight for it. Since my last post we had another "dicovery" session. In this session I was told about a trip she took to NYC (while I was home) with her closest friend. This was around 9 months ago. On this trip she befriended a man in a bar, danced quite explicitely and had him on a second date with her friend. There was no sex (apperently), but what is interesting is that her friend found this wrong and stopped communicating with her cold right after their return home. I have emailed her friend to get to the specifics. <p>I often wondered about why they stopped talking but assumed it was because of some other "female" issue - in fact I asked, but was told it was over money. It was really because the girl thought it was wrong for my wife to be so promiscuous and try and involve her - at least that is my take. This is a very interesting development. <p>Anyway, to let you all know my wife has spoken alot and we have communicated more than I ever thought I could let myself talk to someone who betrayed me so completely. The remaining tug to me is that I have only heard words, not seen any positive results. In fact in the result department I have seen nothing yet. Tommorrow is her first day really away from me for any period of time and I truly want to cry that I can't be with her, that I can't make sure it's all ok. She will have so much temptation there to do her own thing again, to make that call, to reach out to that life of hers. I feel like I am hanging of the edge of a cliff and Ted Bundy has my arm. <p>What can I do to not go crazy when she is not with me? It is within the time we are apart that I really feel it's a worthless pursuit and the reality of what was done seeps in every pour. I think that perhaps when she is not with me that her reality is unfocused and the fog can roll back in, but with virtually no discipline to go on, no red flag to judge right and wrong, what will really stop her? I'm still very confused.<p>As for the STD, we are not sure about it yet, not diagnosed or treated, but it certainly feels like the same thing that happened to me when I was 20. I am not so concerned with that however because when I found out about the affair in Japan I came to grps with that possibility.<p>What is interesting to note is that had I turned a blind eye, I would have found out anyway - via the doctors office. I think that may be God telling her it's time to give this BS a REST.

VeryhurtHarley have you considered looking for another kind of job that would not drag you away from your wife for so long?<p>How likely is it that you will be asked again to leave for another extensive period of time?<p>How about the possibility of you and your W relocating to distance yourselves from OM and so-called affair enabler 'friends' of hers?<p>All these things will not by themselves solve the underlying issues of rebuilding trust and thus your M, but at the very least could be the beginning of said rebuilding.<p>What do you think?<p>Joe

Joe,
Thanks for your continued support brother. Ok I will give a little more specifics on where my head is at and what we have decided to try.<p>Essentially I agree with the MB principles... to an extent. HOwever I cannot believe it is worth anyone's time to remain in a relationship where lies continue and respect is ridiculed AFTER an A is discovered. Full stop. I will never agree to what - for instance - Jon went through for Sue (in the SAA book). <p>What the BS will go through emotionally for a person not ready to give up lies and decipt and betrayal is too much crap for anyone to have to face. I can't subscribe to a person with third degree burns jumping back into a fire. For me, it would be more responsible for that person to move on, grieve the loss, and be a better person knowing that better choices will be made in the future based on their experience. <p>I am only willing to try this with my WS because she is willing to disengage from the OM. I'm not sure the affair has "died a natural death" or not, and frankly could care less. I know that I have it much better than most in that this affair has ended (?) but I also know that I am ready to pack it in if deceipt turns my continued patience into more lies. Plainly, and maybe this is only my reality, I am just not strong enough to face any more of this agony - I have suffered enough in my life. If we can't reach recovery now, I will find my own recovery and hope that she finds hers before she kills someone with the lies. My most important emotional need has been honesty since my earliest memory, so maybe that explains my convictions.<p>OK, that said, my wife and I have agreed - in principal - to move to Canada (where I am from) and leave Singapore to themselves. However this can't happen for at least two more weeks maybe more and in that time she has to be away from me to clear her business and take her leave of absense or resign. Therein is my concern.<p>I know this is a great leap and I feel fortunate to have two home bases from which we can live and learn, but my concern is the interim two week period. She is so wrapped inside this secret life that OM contact would be easy for her, or for him. I know she is withdrawing from it already. For me, any contact with him since the NO CONTACT letter and the last revelation of her lying about contact will without a doubt confirm that she is not the woman I want in my life even one week from now. At some point I have to stop trying to believe in something when it continually spits in my face. <p>In my defence I can say this, I have never nor would I have thought that reconciliation is possible after the level of deceipt I have uncovered, but yet I still try and still there is a light and hope of belief that she will get the help needed and will take us seriously. <p>As for my job I really cannot leave it in the near future for financial reasons, I am in a specialized feild and my leaving will negatively affect the lives of at least five other families. I can however facilitate her travelling with me. That is not an expense problem nor an issue of alienating my work place. I don't mind sacrificing to make this work, as long as it does not follow a timeline wherein deceipt and moral depravity is allowed to run its course while I suffer the consequences.<p>I know that all is not neccessarily MB principals, but Dr Harley could be the Hand of God and I would be diametrically opposed anyway. <p>Maybe that can shed some light on things. I am going to phone the Harley's though, and I appreciate your input tremendously. Thankyou - as I just said to my BS, if not for the people in this board I would have left her on the 1st day I heard the truth. (or at least the beginning of the truth)

Hey Harley ~<p>Go back and reread the first part of SAA [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Dr. Harley is pretty clear that when the BS discovers an affair - they are perfectly justified in walking out of the marriage.<p>His solutions are for those BS who choose to stay for whatever reason.<p>If you choose not to work at your marriage...I certainly wouldn't blame you. It's an overwhelming obstacle to overcome...and not everyone is up to it. It doesn't make you less of a good person to choose to end the marriage.

The previous rant was mostly comments I have on BS continuing to plan A with WS still involved in an affair. I think I needed to air that and would appreciate any debate on the subject. Anyway Joe, sorry to sidetrack and sorry for spelling like a guy with his hands duck taped together, but to be more specific about your questions, here goes.:<p>VeryhurtHarley have you considered looking for another kind of job that would not drag you away from your wife for so long?<p>It is not a realalistic option economically nor within the company I am responsible for. However both my wife and I have agreed that her travelling with me is an option. <p>How likely is it that you will be asked again to leave for another extensive period of time?
In three months I have a 4 month stint in Spain. 2 weeks after that I am in Taipei for 2 months, then Singapore for 3 (over xmas and New Year) then Bangkok for 3 months, after that it is Greece for 3 months. The nature of my job - I work for a 5 star hotel chain - part of my job is overseeing international responsibilities for the whole company - not just one hotel. After Greece is a 3 month vacation - right now I am in the second week of this years "vacation" (what a joke) <p>How about the possibility of you and your W relocating to distance yourselves from OM and so-called affair enabler 'friends' of hers?<p>It is a tentative reality. We have been first-stage planning her leaving her job to move to Canada to our home there. (have two apartments, one in Singapore, one in Canada) In the previous post I mentioned that I have only the problem of her working these next two weeks. I understand she has things to clear up and responsibilities to delegate, but her job puts her essentially in striking distance of any of the enabling/ complicite friends - including OM himself. Jeez Joe, whatever happened to the good old days when you could just hospitalize with an OM and then there would definitely be no contact. <p>Anyway, can you comment on this any time? I appreciate your post.<p>HOPING FOR FUTURE
Thanks and I am trying hard to hang in there. It's all too easy when we are together and I am not having the visions of "them". But when we r seperated for any period of time a part of me completely believes she is going to contact him - to say that I made her writed the contact letter, or any other number of things. In the time before I knew she still talked to him after I got home, she admitted that she was relaying everything I was saying to her back to him. So ...u know... it's tough as nails sweetheart, but I thank God for people like you and Joe, and Bramblerose. <p>Please keep looking in, I feel better when I read your replies and I do take steps based on what u all have said.

Harley,<p>I empathize with you. My H gave me an STD, and I am still enduring the slow leak of accurate information as he decides to feed it to me piecemeal with much continued deception along the way. Like you, I also have no patience for this.<p>I told my H about Plan A and Plan B the day after D-day and that since he was no longer protecting me and the children, I would protect us, and I would not hesitate to go to Plan B if I had to in order to accomplish that. I also told him that I already did all the work to prove to myself that he was having an A, but that now all that was not necessary and that it was up to him to prove to me that he is NOT having an A.<p>Well, the clock is ticking on its way to Plan B, and I'm still waiting for him to institute and follow the extraordinary precautions, to write a no-contact letter to the OW, nearly all the things on the checklist at the end of Chapter 5 in SAA. He has been warned, and he is choosing the consequences each day that goes by. It is his choice whether he wants to take advantage of this 6-month Plan A opportunity or not.<p>So, basically I'm doing textbook SAA, and to be honest, I have stuck it out this far only because of my friends here. I feel I made a commitment to them when I sought their support to see it through, and that's what I'm doing. I am also doing it for me, to help me recover and gather the strength to go to Plan B and maintain no contact in Plan B. And then after an 18-month Plan B, I'm sure I'll be ready for divorce and a new relationship. I believe this is the best course for me to follow to ensure I will be ready for a quality R next time.<p>I think it is reasonable for you to have the same expectations, that your W prove to you that she is NOT having contact with the OM or any man for that matter. There is no reason for you to assume anything other than she is continuing what she has been doing--lying and cheating. The burden of proof should be on her at this point, and if she is serious about rebuilding the M, Harley's extraordinary precautions in SAA are a low-cost way to provide that proof.<p>In your place, I would start with avoiding LBs, and if you are going to counsel with the Harleys, then you will have help formulating a Plan A you would be comfortable with, but I definitely agree that 6 months of Plan A is enough. I would definitely stop the snooping and all that because you already know everything you need to know. It is easier to assume she is continuing more of the same unless SHE proves to you otherwise.<p>I never thought I would make it this far. You'd be amazed what you can do with a little help from your friends. Probably the best part of my Plan A is that I have become so detached from my H because of his continued deception and LBing that it will be so much easier to separate now than it would have been closer to D-day.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I understand she has things to clear up and responsibilities to delegate, but her job puts her essentially in striking distance of any of the enabling/ complicite friends - including OM himself.<hr></blockquote><p>Yes it will be a rough two weeks no doubt about that, but think about this time as a test she has to pass in order for you and her to recover and rebuild a stronger M.<p>I don't know if you read William Harley saying that he does not trust his wife totally and his wife does not trust him totally. His point beign that blind trust blinds us to the dangers that exist out there that can destroy a M. You are a world traveller and you know very well the dangers that exist in unknown lands and thus take the necessary precautions to avoid personal danger right?. The same holds true for blind trust. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Jeez Joe, whatever happened to the good old days when you could just hospitalize with an OM and then there would definitely be no contact.<hr></blockquote><p>Oh those days are still here, IF your willing to do the time of course. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If I were to physically harm OM it would be by cutting off his nuts and making rocky mountain blue oyster soup out of them and feed said soup to him for his prompt recovery. Of course I would ask for his W's permission first. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Joe<p>[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: justanotherjoe ]</p>

Well I came to MB knowing of an affair that my wife had over a period of time while I was away on a business trip. Now I know that my wife has had two real affairs and a million little flirts, that she is a compulsive liar and a potentially habitual WS, CRAVES attention from the opposite sex, and for all likelyhood I have an STD. I feel like this is some kind of sick joke. I hate drama and this is like some soap opera from hell.<p>Think I am outta here y'all. She can have this life, for eveything it is worth to her. Thanks for your advise but this problem goes beyond an emotional need or two, this is a whole other ballgame. I am through dealing with this, I gotta heal myself now, not her.

Hi Harley ~<p>I read your wife's admission on her thread before reading this. How absolutely horrible this must feel for you.<p>I agree, you need to focus on healing you. Your wife has some serious issues that go way beyond the normal ENs of marriage, and you can't help her with that - and I'm sure you don't want to at this point anyway.<p>Maybe your upcoming trips are exactly what you need. Time and space to begin to heal yourself. <p>I'd just like to caution you that the rollercoaster is horrible, and while you are in a downloop, it also spikes, and you'll find yourself second guessing yourself.<p>Can you hold off on the life changing decisions for even a few months? Give yourself some time to absorb everything. In the end, you may still feel exactly the way you do now. And thats fine. I can't say I know what it feels like to be in your shoes, because while I am a BS and I can empathize with the pain, I haven't been in your situation. I do know however, that when we are in extreme shock and pain, as you are experiencing now, we don't always make the best decisions.<p>I don't know what is best for you, and I do believe that all marriages can't be saved, nor do I think they should be saved. <p>So I'd like to suggest that you take 6 months, and focus on you. In six months, you'll be amazed at the progress you will have made in yourself as a person, and you'll be stronger and better able to choose.<p>And you know - it might be the best thing to back off, and let your wife demonstrate her willingness to change. In six months, if she has checked herself into therapy, and gone to treatment, etc, and is taking responsiblity for herself...then you might want to rethink your position. If in six months, you check on her and nothing has changed....you'll have your answer!<p>Anyway, I know this is a nightmare for you. I wish you all the best. And even if you stick by your decision to leave....we are still here to help you in your personal healing.

Harley you have shown great love and courage toward your wife. You deserve to have a woman that you can love AND trust.<p>You are absolutely right about this going beyond an EN or two. Your wife is suffering from a self destructive sickness very much like a drug or alcoholic addiction. The thing is that unless an addict sincerely seeks help, her love ones can't do a damn thing for her.<p>There is a woman here on the MB board that has the user name PlainJane and she has gone thru the same thing that your wife has gone thru. She sought medical treatment for her sexual addiction and she and her H are in recovery. I would strongly suggest that you read her message to one of your W's threads.<p>Remember that one of the marriage vows is to be there, in sickness and in health . Well we know what your wife's condition is at this moment, don't we?<p>I was in a very similar situation a few years back. My xW was a compulsive liar with a sexual addiction. I gave up on her because she refused to admit that she was not only destroying our M but also herself in the process. But the difference between your case and mine is that your W accepts that she is not well and acknowledges that she needs medical attention.<p>If you came home one day and discovered that your W had collapsed and she did not respond to your waking up attempts, you would not abandon her just because you couldn't deal with her condition. No, you would immediately dial 911 and scream to the operator to send an ambulance immediately. You would ride the ambulance and be in the hospital with her all throughout her ordeal. Am I right?<p>Healing yourself and running away from a problem are not the same thing. Sure she is the one that needs to take responsability for what she has done to you and to herself and she has done this, but in order for you to have a M where you can trust her, you need to get her the right medical help pronto.<p>Feel free to keep on venting if you find that it helps. I for one respect you and the trials that you and your W are going thru and will not think any badly whatever you decide.<p>Good luck and God bless.<p>Joe<p>[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: justanotherjoe ]</p>

Confession...I haven't read every word on this thread.
But, on the leaving thing...you'll get no arguement from me. However, I hope I can give you and your wife some insights to help make things better. My H has continued contact with the op involved here but there was no actual EA or PA. It still burns me, because I just found out last night that she had been inviting him to lunch. I told him to tell her to shove it up her a**. Oops. I really LB'd last night. He's never accepted her invites and he intends to tell her that he wants little to do with her. I told him to tell her she's ugly and he'd never leave me for her. Well, I doubt he'll say that. He does still have to work with her from time to time. Anyway...I was going to ask if there was any way you could go down to her shop to help her get things ready to leave. I think it's too early to trust her a whole lot. Also, I've never been exposed to a compulsive liar, are you sure she is one, or do you just feel that she's been incredibly dishonest? Your labelling her differently might make a difference in your exchanges. Also, when you move, try to make friends with couples. Do you know about how Billy Graham ran his ministry? A man and woman were not allowed to be in the same room together alone, unless they were married. This is a good policy for anyone. Now, in my H's case, it's not always feasible, but he now tries to keep his distance from females.
Thank you for your replies to JAJ and Bramble and I. I am so glad we have been able to help.
Oh, and encourage your wife to get some new hobbies. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

Harley,<p>You are right this is not about a need or two. Or even the separation of your work since she had an A while off with a friend. However, as has been recommended read PlainJane's posts here and then read Davidb's posts (her H) They still struggle but the main point is that it took 5 weeks in a care facility dedicated to sexually compulsive behavior for PJ to get it together.<p>You and your W might want to consider such a situation. She has some major issues, but she seems deeply remorseful. The problem will be how she can address her problem. She will need help from you and certainly professional help as well. <p>I will say this you are way to early into this to really make any hard and fast decisions. Although you are certainly justified if you decide not to work on the marriage. <p>My recommendation is learn more, hear more, talk with W more, seek help for her, and then give it time and patience. Getting a divorce can be decided at any point along the way, rebuilding the marriage has a finite window. If you loved her enough to marry her, give it some time and patience, T&P. It will help you more than you realize and when you finally do decide which way to go, you will feel much better about yourself.<p>God Bless,<p>JL