My WS and I had a conversation Saturday night. She told me that she is having trouble regaining intimacy with me and isn't sure if it ever will return. I just listened. we talked about a lot of the issues she has dealt with in her life, and to make a long story short, they all boil down to Control and an overwhelming desire for acceptance. Then she said no matter what happens she can't win. I just listened. She said that if she decided to end our M , her greatest fear would come true. Her family would know that she caused it and be angry and upset with her, and her father and brother ( who she has always striven for acceptance from) would hate her. She says she loves me, but wonders if she stays , is it just to make everybody else happy. I calmly told her that I would never want her to stay under those circumstances and that , I though she should try to work on us because she wants to not to please anyone else. I told her I would accept her leaving , if that was what she truly wanted said the way to begin to find out is to leave everyone else out of it and look at us and see if we can fix what went wrong. Was this the right way to handle this ? Has anyone else had this kind of experience. and if so, what did you do ?

You are on the money here. Boy, don't I wish I would "just listen" more. I say good job. And, I don't know what else to say so I'll leave you now. Keep going the way you feel is right.

OMG, I swear you are describing pre-me. By that I mean the me I was before the me I am today [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>The best thing your wife could do for both of you would be to seek counseling. She needs to focus on herself and not the marriage, her family, or anyone else. The reason I say this is because in her current state of mind there is a good chance she'll come to conclusions based on emotions instead of logic. She may conclude, as I did, that she is indeed staying for others and that she would be doing you both a favor by leaving and starting over. She's not regaining intimacy because she's scared and she still has walls up. My H and I are happier than ever and we STILL have intimacy issues. IT TAKES TIME! And it WON'T happen while she is still stuck, emotionally. Is she late 20's to early 30's? Women go through a big change around that age and it might help to explain some of her thoughts and feelings. I'd have some recommended reading if she's interested (and you).

Mark don't mean to hijack your thread but I think our issues are similar. Hope you dont mind.<p>Hope4...
my WW seems to be going through the same thing as Mark's. She has said she thinks she might be staying only because its "easier" and other similar reasons. She is in her early 30's as well... all lot of her co-workers and people she is with daily are single. She says she feels that she is just coming into her own, she feels that she is more social now and wants to experiance time single. She said the A was the only thing she did for herself, and she is always too concerned with others. She has said she believes deep down OM is the only one who can make her truelyhappy... she is so confused.
A lot of SHE statements in there. But i think that is part of the problem.. hello what about US.. what about the poor husbands who helped support and get them to this point?<p>I think lately my wife has come around a little.. she is still so confused. What is that books were you going to recommend?<p>[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: HangingIn ]</p>

Yup, that sounds like the same issues I dealt with and the same feelings. The first book I read that planted a seed that this might be a STAGE IN LIFE and not some realization that I'd made some prior mistake was A Woman's Book of Life by Joan Borysenko. She outlines life stages that most of us aren't even aware of. Get it and read the chapter that deals with her age group...I bet a huge lightbulb will go on, hopefully for both of you! Good luck!

Personally, I think you did the right thing. Althought my W is not dealing with the control issue, she is struggling with the acceptance part of it. Right now, both sides of the family have distanced themselves from her and she is having a hard time with that. She thinks that they all hate her, but in reality they are just tired of the crap she has put them through. She wants them to accept what she has done as being ok and a 'normal' thing to do.<p>Have you read 'Love Must be Tough?" by Dobson. It has helped me realize that you have to let the WS go and make their own decision about the M. All you can do right now is to listen to W, don't push the M issue and keep Plan A-ing. Its hard to hear her say those things, but that is exactly how she feels right now.

Thanks for the responses, Hope, She is in her late 30's and I did mention that our insurance plan does have several options for counseling ,but only mentioned it. ( the problem is she had bad experiences with this when she was a child). I don't know if this matters, but the OM was someone from high school, she happened to run into one night. I told her I felt that maybe she was more serious about him than she told me, she said, that it didn't matter that she was sure those feeling could end.. She said she does feel, at times that she would be doing everyone a favor if she would just leave. I just listened, at the end of it all I held her while she cried. We finally went to sleep around 6 AM and for the first time in I don't know how long I told her I was going to indulge myself and hold her until she fell asleep. I said I missed holding her more than any thing, and she told me she miss it too. as she drifted off to sleep I told her, I would make us a great breakfast in the morning and we could relax and watch a comedy movie (which we did). It was the best and most honest evening we have had for some time. I think I am learning how to do this, but if she won't seek help, what can I do

Mark..
Just keep doing exatally what you are doing. Offering yourself. It may not seem like it always but I think those times are really helpful and make a differance. I have been sticking to this plan and my wife, while she hasnt told me, apparently today told a mutual friend she was thinking of trying couseling again with me.. keep your chin up Mark you are doing awesome. All we can do it try our best right?<p>-HI

OMG, my WW is 29! That's scary, isn't it? She also lists similar motivators: feeling "trapped", needing "independence", etc., etc. In fact, she's used many of the same phrases that you gave (am I staying just because it's the easy way out? am I selling out by staying? etc. etc.) She's also stayed to date, largely, I believe, based on family pressure - no-one knows yet, but she knows what their reactions will be.<p>She's been in counseling now for about 4 months, and it hasn't done much for her. Then again, her EA/PA is still on-going, only showing some signs of cracking.<p>You asked what I did / am doing. Well... I'm following the Harley Plans. I've done a pretty good Plan A, I think. I gave it 6 months, by the book. I'm preparing to go to Plan B. Given that her EA/PA is on-going, it's just drawing too much love out of my love bank for her - it will destroy us to continue much more in the current dynamic. I've tried to be patient, listen and be kind. She's appreciated it, but now by continuing despite recognizing me, she's become a major cake-eater. I don't necessarily advocate Plan B unless you're about to lose it - hmm, kind of like I am?!

My situation is similar. I have seen a letter she wrote to him ( although I did this by snooping) and He sure did seem like he was playing her. I even suspect that there has been contact. She has said no, but I did see some things that led me to believe there has been. I think it's definitely better if the WS ends things and comes to their senses, but that doesn't always happen and I am at the point ( perhaps out of self preservation) that I don't care. I find myself becoming more distant from this. I don't know how to explain it except to say that I hope it works out for us, but I'm Ok if it doesn't. A friend told me the other day that I needed some normalcy in my life. I think that's true. I don't know about any of you, but I am tired of all this. I am at the point where I want her and my M, but not for the wrong reasons. I deserve better. I guess I am developing a Plan B attitude without actually going to Plan B. I don't wish her any thing but the best, but I can't tell her what's best for her. If I do that, I'm not doing either one of us any good. I want a wife who believe in our M as strongly as I can, and if it's not her, It will be sad, but I'll find what I deserve. I told her that I have learned to love more than I thought I was capable of. I believe that and although sometimes I feel terrible, On the whole I am a better person in spite of all of this. I worry about her and how scared and confused she is and I have offered my help but that's all I can do. Am I wrong to think this way ?

It takes time time time...and a GOOD support system...not necessarily from you. If she's hanging with single friends they will more than likely NOT be the type of support that will truly help her. The reason I say that is because SINGLE friends are happy to have more SINGLE friends to hang with. They'll do a big thumbs up as to how wonderful it is to not be tied down etc etc...and how they're going to wait for their soulmate yadda yadda...yet get them to talk truthfully and they're board and lonely. I did ok being out on my own, but it also gave me a chance to see what really is out there for more "fish in the sea". Big deal...one fish is like another...one may rub your back or communicate better...but then he turns out to be a total slob or a big whiner. The unsettling feeling around this age is NORMAL...and I think the thing to do about it is to work on oneself WITHIN the marriage. Not work ON the marriage and not work on getting OUT of the marriage....just work on oneself. If she looks to add fullfillment to her life in another way...like going back to school, or pursuing a hobby that's always interested her, some self-help reading is good (counseling is better if she will and IF she finds a good counselor), and give the rest some SPACE AND TIME...she'll probly find the feeling will go away and then you can work on the US part together.