This is my first time on the board. My H left in March of 2001 after an argument we had. He had been on a trip to Savannah with some co-workers and came back from the trip "different". Three days after the trip, he was gone. He maintained that his leaving had nothing to do with AW, but he was so very angry and explosive that I felt he was hiding something. Once I got over the initial shock of him leaving, I began to dig around and found out about her for certain in May. I filed for D in August when he moved the rest of his things out of our home and rented an apartment. However, things started changing in September and he began spending more time with us (we have two children). He swears he never slept with the OW but that she had fulfilled him emotionally. He said they stopped seeing each other and were just friends (they worked in the same office). Because I have caught him in soooo many lies, I have no reason to believe him. In November, he told me he loved me and wanted me to stop the divorce. I said no. He asked again a few weeks later and said that we would go to counseling. To this, I agreed. I thought things were going well until I found an email from her telling him "I won't worry about the future because you have asked me not to. I will just spend this time with you. ILY." I hit the roof and told him I was calling the attorney for a trial date. He promised to never see or talk to her again. Well, I caught them excercising together in early January! I spoke to her harshly, but not inappropriately and then I drove off and left him standing there after I told him, "you don't realize it, but you've just made your choice." That night, he called me twenty times telling me (for the first time) that he was so sorry and he wanted only me. He said he wants to move home and save our marriage. I have seen some changes in him recently - he spends alot of time with us and wants to move home by this weekend. I am soooo scared! I love him, but I don't know how to trust him (and he gets mad if I get too inquisitive by telling me I'll never let him live his mistake down). My pastor said that he needed to move home a long time ago - that a marriage can't heal and function properly unless it's in a true marital environment. We can't just escape the stress of bills, children, and life in general. We both had a strong religious background (I thought) and I've waited for him to find himself again. He used to be so noble and incredible. I see glimpses of that occassionally. How do I trust him again? How do I know he's not seeing the OW secretly? Why would he want both lives as it seems like an awful lot of trouble to me? And, how long does it take once a WH moves home to find some kind of security and peace again? I received a court notice for a hearing on March 5th. I never dropped the case since he wasn't "walking the walk". It seems like he is now although he is somewhat withdrawn and doesn't really talk about his feelings much - he says he's built up a lot of walls since he's been gone. Am I doing the right thing to drop the court date and let him move home?<p>Sorry for the long post - I just thought some background would help.

Welcome!<p>How do you know?
You don't until you try.<p>The reason why he is acting differently now...withdrawn....is because he is probably going through withdrawl if he is NOT having contact with the OW.<p>You have 3 choices.
1. You can either let him come home and go from there.
2. You can tell him that you need time and reassurence that this is what he wants before he comes home.
3. You can tell him that you don't want to work it out.<p>It's up to you....nobody can make this decision for you.<p>My opinion on this...and this is what I did.
I made my H prove to me that he really did want to be with me before I let him move back in. This meant that he had to prove that there was no contact with the OW and that it was indeed over before I would consider working on us again.

Thanks for the advice MP.<p>I am trying to set up a counseling appointment for us right now. There are some things I need to say to him - I want to ask him one last time if he is truly committed to this relationship. I can't continually worry that he is going to walk out again every time we argue. But, he has to choose to be HAPPY. There is no point in him coming home if he is not going to put forth the effort it will take to heal us. I can't work for both of us. This should be a happy time, a time of relief, not drudgery. The time has come for him to truly decide what he wants.<p>I guess I feel a little foolish that I have been so available over the last year. I just never wanted to play games with him - I choose to be real and honest. Any way this all turns out, I will win in the end because I have Someone looking out for me and ultimately I put my trust in Him. There is comfort in having "done the right thing." I am willing to give him a second chance - if it's truly what he wants.<p>Does any of this sound familar to you? [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

dear trying-- it sounds as if you expect bliss when he returns. i wish it were that simple. my husband never left and his affair was brief and over completely the moment i found out. it still hasnt been simple. you both will be going through a lot of emotions for a very long time. unless you two burry it so deep- and that isnt healthy either. i wish i could give you a magic solution but alas there doesnt seem to be one except time and a lot of patience. good luck.

Hi Trying. I went through something like this before. Only he was what I called a real "player". There was more than one OW. He needed to have someone in his "back pocket" all the time... just in case. The OW in his life gave him security and stroked his ego. I found emails that made me literally sick.<p>That was two years ago. We broke up for two years. He begged me back but I was not going to waver. It had not been enough time. He had to prove to me he loves me. And that he didn't want me back JUST because he didn't want to lose me. He always had me and didn't do right. Now he was facing being alone ~ without a steady gf. <p>It took two years for me to even consider giving him another chance. And the circumstances were extreme. I was in a mental hospital, started therapy and have been on medication. This started Jan '01. Over time we developed a real friendship. And he has shown me that he regrets his mistakes. Being apart gave him time to learn about himself and why he made the decisions he made. He also learned what the consequences were of his infidelity. I am confident that I will never have to deal with infidelity again with him. Of course never say never... but this is how I feel. I am very secure in our relationship.<p>That time also allowed me to learn a lot about myself and to understand why I made the decisions I made. I was 1/2 of that relationship and he would not have continued to stray if I had just left when I should have. I only told him "It's OK. You can cheat and I will be here when you get home". I had to find the strength to do what was best for me, although it hurt really badly, it was the best thing for me.<p>I can't tell you what to do. Only you know what's in your heart and what's in your head. Based on my experience - and my experience alone - I don't see how after the past few months, he could know what he wants. I see him making the same mistakes over & over. He may very well love you, but for some reason (and we don't know what that is), he has been unable to get this woman out of his life. If it was January that the last incident happened, I believe that I would give it a little more time.<p>If you aren't sure, you don't have to get divorced just yet. You can continue to be separated. Give yourself some time. As you have more "Me" time, you will learn more about yourself and your decisions, and you will also learn more about him and his decisions. You will see things you haven't seen before. Just know that this is not a decision that has to be made right now... or next month. When infidelity happens, it would be unreasonable to expect that things will be "fixed" overnight, so to speak.<p>From what you have said, and again I am no expert, it seems he is confused and is sitting on the fence. You should NOT have to accept that type of behavior. You are very important and you do not deserve less than 100% from someone who made lifelong promises to you.<p>For now think about giving it a little more time.<p>And also know that it IS possible for him to change... it is possible to repair this relationship, but I don't believe it will happen in a matter of weeks. I think he is scared to death of losing you forever. It's becoming a reality what the consequences are. And he's scared. BUT he still doesn't want to let her go. While being with her, what has he learned about himself? What has he learned about the breakdown of your relationship? What has he learned from his mistakes that would help him make positive changes in his decisions in the future?<p>These things are important. I do not believe he could have realized these things while focusing on another relationship. He has not had "Me" time to figure things out. <p>And that's not fair to you.<p>With the most sincerity,
Clear

If you ever find an answer to your question about knowing, clue me in. It's been almost a year now and I still agonize at times over "What ifs"! LOL<p>When my husband asked me to come back (it's funny because we think it's what we want more than anything and then when it happens we're terrified!), I told him I had to think about it and then I offered him my "conditions" (I didnt say it that way; told him I NEEDED this first):<p>1. NO CONTACT whatsoever with the OW, except for a message telling her it was OVER.
2. Complete honesty. He had to be willing to tell me the answer to any question I posed to him about the affair and NO MORE lies in the future.
3. We had to date all over again, so we could get to know each other.
4. He needed to be patient because I was going to be insecure, I was not going to be able to trust him, and he needed to help me. It wasn't MY problem but OUR problem.
5. He had to come get me. I had already traveled across the country twice, trying to save my marriage. He had to COME GET ME if he really wanted me back. (this was hard because it meant bearding my family in AZ)<p>Anywho...look within yourself for what YOU need from your husband so you can KNOW he is serious. Then tell him.<p>Blade

My MIL and I are very close. Our entire family was devastated by WH's actions. He shut everyone out of his life, including her. He has never talked to her about any of this. It was very hard for her to watch this from someone she spent so much time teaching values and morals to. She told me this morning to try to understand how he has had the best of both worlds and moving home is an adjustment. He's going from sleeping whenever he wants and basically the single life to a noisy house (children 7 and 2) where sleep is at a premium. I am trying so hard to be patient, but it is difficult to understand where he's coming from while I have raised our children on our own for the past year. Nonetheless, I think his coming home (paired with counseling) is a good thing as we will have to face our issues.

Voice of regretted experienced speaking: Do not allow him back in the home until there is a SPECIFIC marital recovery agreement in place. Read SAA and include all the extraordinary precautions for ending an A the right way. If he is working with OW, then that means he needs to find a job elsewhere. It means he needs to write a no-contact letter to OW for you to read and okay before sending. Most of the extraordinary precautions listed in SAA can and should be done BEFORE he moves back in.<p>It smells like he is balking at the low-cost behaviors required for rebuilding trust. There are only two reasons for that: (1) He is still being deceptive, and/or (2) He is not remorseful, responsible and insightful enough to understand the importance of such behavior on his part to someone he betrayed. Either way, it is a HUGE lack of respect. If he is not willing to be accountable for what he's done and make amends for it, then he is not ready to contribute to marital recovery.

He doesn't sound to me like is he ready to come back and work on the marriage if he does not show any remorse or is balking at your attempts to rebuild trust. Your inquisitiveness is justified and you will need open and honest answers in order to EVER regain trust. I see nothing in his behavior that says that *HE* [the one who destroyed the trust]is working to rebuild your trust in him. I mean, he was just with the OW last month. What has changed about HIM in one month?<p>I can't think of anything more horrible than to have a WS move back only to get my hopes up and find out 2 weeks or 2 months later that they are continuing the adulterous behavior. <p>I think you are VERY WISE to take this slow and withhold your trust, there is nothing here TO trust. You would be INSANE to trust an untrustworthy person and you would be even crazier to take back a WS who isn't willing to do much to change himself and rebuild his marriage. It would be better for ALL to take it slow and give him time to reprove himself.

Monday night replay: Wh tells me that he doesn't love me and that he "committed to no one" but he will be moving home on Friday and "being the man God wants him to be." He also fully admitted to sleeping with her. Obviously, he's lost his mind! We had a pending March 5th court date. I have thought and prayed about his actions over the past several months and his hurtful words. I have decided to let the court date go through. Apparently the man I knew is dead. To think he would come home on those terms is nauseating - he's been telling me for months that he loved me and would do "whatever it takes" to save us. I find it exhausting and upsetting to think he could move home and risk our children's wellbeing like that. <p>I assume he's still seeing the OW. And, now that he does not have a place to live, he will move in with her. <p>My counselor told me yesterday (after I gave him the details of our conversation) that WH was a master manipulator (he says things like "why do you still love me?", etc.) and that he had fooled us all since we had been in counseling for over three months and, believe me, his show was good. It even had me fooled except for that quiet, nagging feeling.<p>Now, if I can just deal with the grief. I think he will use the OW to hurt me (he actually was smiling, smugly the other night). I can just see him flaunting her at our daughter's soccer games. Ouch. Can someone please tell me they won't make it. I'm really angry about this all. <p>I really did EVERYTHING I knew how to do to save us and I've waited for him for almost a year. My kids are already dealing with a divorce-like situation. It won't be much different for them and I'll just have to do what I can to help them through it.

I am so sorry for your pain. I'm afraid that I don't really have much I can offer you, except that your husband sounds like a slug. I wish I could give you some magic advice or perfect words to make you feel better, but I just can't. I simply felt compelled to share your grief and let you know you are in my heart and I am so sorry you are going through this. Good luck in the journey you have ahead of you.

Thank you Tutter13 for your kind words. I hate the way I feel right now but I just can't stop thinking about it.