WS and I had some more conversations this weekend that I think were somewhat positive and productive. I was able to express some of my feelings to W about how I felt used, taken advantage of, lied to and being treated disrepectfully. W acknowledged this and expressed how truly sorry she was for doing this to me. I am getting a better understanding of how guilt-ridden W is right now, I think she is realizing how many lives she has affected, how serious this really is and how much she has lost and still stands to loose. W is definetly confused, some of the things she has been talking about go against her deepest convictions. I am also starting to think that W is in the midst of a full-blown MLC, something I should read-up on if I want to help her through this.<p>On the downside, W told me that I was the one who had to win her back if I wanted to stay married to her, she even went so far as to give me a list of things I have to do in order for that to happen. I have a hard time with this because it seems like it puts the blame for everything on me, makes me look like the WS instead of the BS. But, I guess I need to look at the bigger picture and what exactly is it that I want to accomplish. I just don't like the idea of W 'controlling' the reconcillation process, if that is what it really is.<p>We decided that I will try and find an apt closer to home and sign a 6 mos lease, W thinks it is too soon for me to move back in right now (I disagree, but am not going to fight over it). This will allow me to be able to spend more time at home with the kids and with W to see if the M can really be restored and made better. W is expressing a desire to get back together, but I think she is scared about what it is going to take for this to happen. I have told her that we are going to have to do more talking about the issue of the A and the things we both did wrong that allowed it to happen and how we can make things better. <p>I wonder sometimes if W has become a person that I don't want to spend the rest of my life with, if I am going to settle for less that I want just to remain married, if we don't really reconcile the M but rather just stay together for the kids and for the comfort level we bring each other. Guess I will just have to wait and see, I do know that I am not ready to end this M.

LHS,<p>Yea, I sorta got that speech also. I just gave him that look and in a 'few days' he came around and said well he had more to work on than I did. What I have 'learned' to do is not apologize for those kind of statements. I told him I agreed. Left it at that. <p>Of course I am dealing with a male WS & conflict avoider type and you are dealing with a female WS. Method could be different but I too felt as you did. Still hanging in there though and he is coming around but ooooohhhhh.......soo.....slowly.<p>I still wonder about that also!<p>L.

loveherstill,<p>I would agree a very productive conversation. I am happy for you. You do have have some more visiting to do with each other, but dialogu is flowing and that is good.<p>Caught my eye when you mentioned MLC, I truly believe that that is what my WH is going through, I've recommend this site before came from somebody here but I gained alot of insight as to what is going on. I've told my WH that I understand better what he is going through then he does. Just thought that I would pass it on to you.<p>http://128.121.203.65/hismidlifecrisis.html<p>God's Blessings to you and your family!<p>Dawn

Hi lhs - of course I don't have any direct experience, but based on all the reading I've done here, it seems the Mothership doesn't let go of them all at once. Just like you're used to, don't completely swallow what she says about you needing to do all the work. As Orchid indicates, she may s l o w l y come to realize she has the most to do.<p>WAT

Warning warning warning. That statement about everything that YOU need to do to "win her back" is one that I made as well. My husband never bought me flowers...so I told him that if he really loved me he would. So he did...and then I was mad because in my state of mind I thought that if he REALLY loved me he would fill the room with roses to prove he cared. But he kept telling me...I love you but I won't fight for you. I want to be with someone who wants to be with me.....it infuriated me because I did want to be with him, I just wanted him to be someone different! UGH! It took a new state of mind for me to realize that demanding attention and affection wasn't the answer...I had to learn to love and appreciate what I have...and learn to fulfill myself. I don't advise following her list of "demands". If/when she's ready to deal with you as her husband and not as a possible knight in shining armour...then you'll make some progress. I have another book I'd reccommend...it's short, sweet, an interesting read and CHEAP. It's called the Knight in Rusty Armour and it's like $5 at the bookstore. It's one you can read and re-read and the more you think about it the more you "get it". Good luck!

H4F- I was very upset when W gave me 'the list', I saw it as a ploy, a way to manipulate me and the M to fit her idea of how things are going to be. But, they really were only words, so I will have to see how it plays out. As I have thought about it, I realize that this list basically consists of all the domestic support I was giving prior to the separation. I know this is a big issue for W, trying to take care of 4 kids with 2 parents is hard enough. And now that spring and summer are coming, there is going to be a whole lot of outside stuff to add to it. W doesn't readily admit it, but it is obvious she cant keep up with everything and I know that BF doesn't want to help her like she thought she would.<p>So, in a way, this will allow me to show her how well we used to work together, how good we were as a team. I'm sure that I wont do everything on her list, but I don't have a problem with some of them, I'll just do it on my terms, not hers.<p>I agree with what Orchid is saying as well. This comment from W seems to be deflecting the blame away from her actions and onto me (W is a blame-avoider, I am/was the conflict-avoider). I could tell her no, you do all the work, you need to win me back, but that would be manipulation on my part and would only put more distance between us. Someone has to be the stronger person in this, guess it will have to be me.<p>One thing I have noticed recently is that W sure wants to talk a lot more than she has in the last 5 mos. The other night she asked me to stay for 'just a little bit' after I dropped the kids off. I ended up staying for 2 hours and she kept trying to get me to stay longer, she even made the comment 'this feels like old times'. It was snowing pretty bad so I finally had to tell her that I had to go, the roads were getting too bad to drive on. Even then, she called me on the cell-phone to talk for a bit longer. She is even calling me at work again for no particular reason, just to ask a question or tell me about something trivial.<p>I sure miss those times when we would just talk and be together and I know that W does too. Its obvious that the issue of the A is hanging over us, but I find it very easy to just talk like nothing is wrong. Hopefully as time goes on and we both get more comfortable being together, we can start talking about the serious issues that need to be dealt with. I know that it is going to be slow and there are going to be some big setbacks, but I sure am enjoying the good times right now.<p>Funny how things can change so quickly, it was only a few weeks ago I was ready to deliver my Plan B letter and be done with this whole mess.

LHS:<p>Maybe having "the list" from your WW is a good thing. Kind of a roadmap to fulfill her ENs which you will eventually need to do if things are going to work out. Perhaps you can make up your own list of your needs and the information you require from her. Tell her you will work on her list and that you want her to work on yours. We are all individually responsible for making sure our partner knows what our ENs are and how we would like them fulfilled.<p>A suggestion out of left field:
I see that you are a Zeppelin fan and the part of the song you quote in your signature line is my W's favorite song. She loves it when I play this song on my guitar and sing it to her. The lyrics are great and very romantic. Maybe send your W the CD and have her play this song as your special message to her. Good luck.

LHS:<p>It appears that your wife is still trying not to see her role in all of this, and that is normal. As I've mentioned to others, it's really difficult to disect yourself and see this evil from within. Then, not only do you see yourself in this dark shadow, but you realize that's how your spouse might see you. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] What we don't realize is that's not it at all. When we are capable of owning our evils (so to speak) it helps our spouse to see us in a much better light.<p>As for the list of things you need to improve on. . . well, I'm sure it could have been done in a more positive way, but truthfully it is a good thing. She is telling you "this is what I need to feel good." Now, you need to do the same. It's part of communicating. If she doesn't know what you need then she cannot provide it, and vice-versa. My husband and I have shared these things with eachother through conversations rather than paper, but whatever works.<p>In any event, she really needs to realize and acknowledge that it is she who has to win you back, not the other way around. Don't blame yourself! Quite honestly, she needs to realize that she is truly blessed that you are offering her this second chance. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] Me, I know I am blessed that my husband gave me the second chance I really didn't deserve. I count my blessing each and every day.<p>It's a tough road, but she'll come around. Have you guys thought about counseling? It could really help you to communicate better. Once she can openly see her role in this the two of you will work a lot smoother together.<p>I understand the feelings of do you really want this for the right reasons or not. Only time will really tell. However, I think that if the two of you can communicate in a productive way and work through these obstacles together, you will be just fine. We all grow and change in life, the key is to embrace it as a good thing and grow together. That way, the changes will seem like they are going the way they were supposed to go.<p>I wish you my best. Also, I'm glad you had some good conversations. That is definately a plus and some steps forward. Don't fear the steps backwards though, they are certain to happen, just try to keep your head above water and continue to move forward. You are doing great! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]