Hi Harley,<p>Boy oh boy, reading your posts and your wifes, really, really brought me back. It shows me how far that I have come. I also want to let you know that you can recover from this.<p>A little background on me. I have been married for almost 14 years. Never in my life had I ever been faithful to any partner I was involved with. Never. My husband gave me everything I could possibly want. I could do anything. Vacations, jewelery, you name it, he gave it to me. My affairs had nothing to do with him not meeting my needs. <p>My parents divorced when I was very young, and my mother got remarried. My bio dad split, and my step dad basically ignored me. The only time men ever paid attention to me, was if they were sexual. From comments about my body, to sexual talk, inappropriate touching. I was embarrassed and ashamed. This was all at a very young age. I also am an alcoholic, drug addict, compulsive shopper, compulsive eater.<p>So, basically, that is how I transformed. The only attention I got from when was when the wanted sex from me, and my constant craving for attention was just what I did. I mean in my mind that if they had sex with me, then they must love me. However, after losing my virginity basically by date rape, I never saw the guy again, and I kept on repeating the cycle. Thinking that it would be differant. Ironically enough, I didn't even like sex, it was just something that I did. I would hate myself afterward, and just dull the pain with drugs and alcohol.<p>So, there is a little background, now to the present, and the honesty. I would strongly encourage you to do a search on my posts from last december, and january. It shows the pain and insanity that I was going through.<p>From the first day that my husband found out, he originally just thought it was a cyber affair, he begged me to tell him the truth, but I couldn't, I was too scared. He found out more a few days later, and I confirmed it. Again, he asked if there was anything else, no I told him. I still lied to myself. You see, I have lied my whole life. I could continue to surpress it. No problem. He found out more. Really bad stuff. I assured him that this was it. Still holding on. <p>He felt that there was more, I mean the stuff I did, just didn't make sense. How did it all begin? That was the part that was missing. Another thing he did, which did help was the he was totally honest with me. He told me things he did in his past, and also since we were married, things I never knew. Sure, he didn't have an affair, but he wasn't the choir boy that I has invisioned him to be. <p>I continued to not be honest, not even with my therapist. I still held onto some lies. Let me tell you, every day was hell. I was no longer using sex, food, anything to dull the pain. I was just me and my mind, still no medication. Finally around Christmas I told him that I was using diet pills for a few years, that was the first thing I ever told him that he didn't find out about. I was just compelled to tell him. However, in my mind, maybe that would be just enough to "appease" the situation, and not have full disclosure. I was wrong. It was weighing on my mind every day.<p>No longer could I continue to lie. I was posting like crazy, and my good friend here, told me about a book called "Just Like Jesus". In it there was a verse that said something like...God loves to decorate, he needs to decorate, however, instead of a shelf here and there, sometimes God has been known to gut an entire wing. That was it. I knew that I had to get completley honest in order for our marriage and me to recover.<p>I told him finally that several years ago I had two one night stands, I was using drugs at the time. He asked me when he found out about my using if I had sex, and of course I denied it. Finally the whole truth came out. I knew that my marriage was either going to make it, or not, but at that moment, it didn't matter. The truth was out. I was set free.<p>I have to tell you, that evening, I felt like a dying animal. I had never cried and felt so much pain in my life. It was like a demon was exorcised from my soul. It was two days later that I entered a treatment center. <p>Going there was the best thing I ever did. It made me face things I didn't want to. I starting taking Prozac. Going to counseling. I was finally free, but I still had all this baggage. My husband and I are still together, and it is hard. Sometimes I just want to run away, and sometimes he does too, but we do love each other.<p>In the beginning, I thought wouldn't it be wonderful to be hypnotized so we could forget all this pain. But, I have come such a long way, that I don't want to forget, my husband and I are more closer than we have ever been, and I really feel connected to life. I want to make up for all lost time, I messed up so much. <p>My husband and kids and I just moved clear across the country. We both left good jobs, and we sold our house. But, tommorrow I start a great job, better than my old one, and he has a great job too. Life really can get better. But, it is gonna take a lot of work on my part and also on his. But, anything is possible, if both parties want it to work.<p>I hope this helps a little bit, if you need anything, please ask.<p>Prayers with you and your wife<p>PJ

Another thing...<p>It seems that your wife is truly remorseful, if she is anything like me, and I suspect she is, this may just be the nuclear blast that she needs to clean up her act. <p>I read over your posts again, and hers too, and I do hear so much pain. You need to get help for you, and she needs to get help for her, and then you can bring it together.<p>This may not go over well for some people on this board but, Plan A'ing all the way for someone like me, is like walking all over the bs.<p>I'm not saying that we didn't follow the principles set forth here, its just that my husband took more of a tough love approach. I basically tried/trying to plan a him. To show him that I love him, and that I am worth keeping. <p>There are too many WS's out there who are "cakemen/women". There was no chance of that happening in my recovery. All contact stopped from day one, no pining away, nothing. Cold hard brutal facts about how I messed up. <p>For months, we ate, slept, and even breathed what I did. The MB principles say something like spending 15 hours a week together? Try every minute of the weekend, and also nights after work. <p>Anyway, I believe that your wife could absoulutley benefit from a treatment center. There are good ones here in the states, The Meadows, in Arizona, for one, it is run by Dr. Patrick Carnes. I strongly suggest both of you read, "Don't Call it Love, by Dr. Carnes, and your wife should read "She's got a secret", by Dr. Doug Weiss. <p>You have no where to go, just like my husband, and she is lost too, please just continue to post and talk, talk, talk.<p>Take Care<p>PJ

PlainJane,<p>You have a really inspiring story. I just wanted to also let you know that Forgiven Forever by Joe Beam is also supposed to be a great book for true healing of the past - not just for affairs. <p>He is a minister that is officially licensed to present MB seminars and he has some of his own. I'm trying to remember his website, but it was he who left his family to do who knows what, actually got divorced and then three years later founds his way back - and he was a minister.<p>He wrote the book and recommends it to people who may have trouble letting go of things that happened to them in the past.<p>He also wrote Becoming One which is about have a balance of emotional, spiritual and physical in a marriage.<p>It's a good addition to the MB site.<p>Just wanted to throw that out there. K

PlainJane,
Just wanted to say Hey!
I have not noticed any of your posts in a long time.
Thanks for sharing!!
My DW is as much into denial as ever. Just before Thanksgiving I caught her in a small little lie about her use of pre-paid calling card & she hit a bottom of sorts and admitted Bulemia -- talked of going to 12 step process, but has not yet followed through.
I have been attending S-anaon F2F meeting since first of December & I have had my struggles, but am coping a little better right now -- She went with me to a couples S-anon meeting & briefly spoke that she has shared very little of this with her counselor -- DAH, as if we did not already know that, right.
She did agree to couples counseling --
She would obviously be a candiadte for a treatment center but I don't know how I could get her there unless & tied her up and literally drug her. What is cost factor? We live in Western PA.
Would you be familar with or have ideas on selelecting a Chrisitian Counselor familar with SA?
She seems to exhibit Narcissim as well (IMHO!) and evidentily the vomitting was new news to her Counselor, even though he & her have seen each other 10-12 times.
I know, a guy C -- Control is big issue with her -- I am not to know of counselling conversations --How can I get her to female C when she stresses no problem with SA issues & virtually any & all marriage enrichment ideas have been rejected, both mine & couples counselor we saw about 5 times -- she is now saying she does not like her -- she likes her guy counselor, although she has not seen him in a few months --
I am sure she has not been honest with him -- too embarassing --I believe she paints a picture that she was a victim -- would not want to ruin her image!<p>She absolutley refuses to read anymore books or articles -- SHe read a lot of "Out of the Shadows in February of 2001, when I first took her back and at that time said she sees where she might have an issue with SA, but now she is holding tight to the idea this is not a problem! She stresses that she has not acted out & that there was too much pain with our children (aged 24 & 30)& family knowing what she did, in general, for her to do those things again.
Yes, I still go on here on occassion about her style of dress - have not vented on board for a while & do not rag her, but she is definately still in the "look at Me, aren't I beautiful" mode -- has said that she enjoys getting attention from the guys (she included gals too, to make it seem less obviuos or threatening!) [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] She professes high fashion, not provocative!!
She has been a little terror stricken the last couple days. She has run dangerously low on her clinique, liquid foundation [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] -- as you had assumed before, she will not go to the mail box w/o complete make up & 20 minute of viewing and changing of cloths to get just the right look.
She locks herself in the bedroom with strick orders to not disturb her while she dresses in front of full length mirror! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]
Anyway, hope all is well with you!
Thanks for your input & support this summer!
Peace be with you! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]
HH
email: bhurrican@yahoo.com

God is in control, you know, I vaugely remember hearing about this book, I will have to check it out. Thanks!<p>HH,<p>Sorry to see things still the same for you. I have been following your story all along, I took a break from posting for awhile, we moved, and just needed to adjust to the new surroundings.<p>I just wish that I could take your wife and sit her down with a few of my therapists from treatment, and let them go round with her. <p>Just reading about her antics, is exasperating! Good Grief! The bulimia is not a good sign at all. Did you know that Sex and love addicts also have food issues? She is in such denial it is a shame. Anyway. The treatment, where I went, it was covered by insurance, under the residential treatment clause. The 6 weeks cost close to 20K. The Meadows in Arizona, costs around 36K. Expensive,yes, but if your insurance covers it, there is no reason not to do it. I was so desperate that I would have tapped into my 401k if my insurance didn't pay. There was a guy there who I saw put it on his credit card! <p>I do wish you and your wife well. I will keep my fingers crossed and hope that she does come to some type of acceptance.<p>PJ

Jane,
So good to hear from you, and to hear your story from your side.<p>I'm so impressed with the work you've done on you! Getting into the nooks and crannies of why we do the things we do is often painful and scary. Sharing that with others is phenomenal!<p>It is amazing to me how many young women do learn to equate sex with love...and view themselves as only having that (the ability to have sex)to their credit.<p>Anyway, it's wonderful to have you around...give the Deacon a big hug for me...
Funny, the phrase "you deserve each other" has such a negative connotation...but in your case...only the positive stands out.
Hugs,
T

Ooops, sorry Jane...got you mixed up with the other Jane...married to Bill Uphill!
Senior Moment!
T

Plain Jane,<p>It's Harley here. Thankyou for your message and I appreciate that your husband is helping me too. You are good people. I have a few questions I hope you could answer for me.
1. Were your affairs brief and sexual or were there any that lasted and had you develop a relationship with them - kind of "secret life" stuff.
2. What can we do to help my wife correct her problem if councelling is not readily available. (Singapore has no treatment center and we r not wealthy enough to send her somewhere.)
3. When you were in the act of infidelity, what - if anything - did you feel for David? Did you have any moments of guilt during these affairs?
4. Can you elaborate on your husband's "tough love" approach?<p>I am really very confused now as to staying with her or leaving. Sometimes I feel as if I am stupid to stay - to risk my heart being broken again. We have had a few good nights lately but I notice that she is not posting much and we are both kind of trying to push the experience away. She still is my greatest fear now whenever we are apart. Today is the second day of separation for us and I am scared as hell she will make contact with OM. I know my wife and have a feeling she will contact him just to say sorry or something, after all she never had to write anyone a letter like the "no contact" letter (which was verbatim from the book SAA). <p>Can you help me help her by telling her your methods of dealing with "withdrawal" and showing her how important total honesty is to us making it? <p>Something inside me tells me there may be more to the story and she is blocking it out. <p>BTW I do love her still, and I am fighting to make it work. Just that it's the hardest thing staying with her when I have been hurt this bad. It is so easy for me to give up.

Hi Harley,<p>I hope all is well with you. I just wanted to let you know that I will respond to your questions this weekend.<p>I didn't want you to think that I was going to ignore you.<p>Take Care.<p>PJ

PJ,
Just wanted to thank you for your reply & your support!
We are downsizing to a townhouse & are moving 3 miles & are in the midst of the move & all, so that has occupied my brain & I have not been thinking of our issues -- this has been good. Our commnicatio has improved -- able to touch on certain things without explosions.
Yes, I knew that other compulsons, addicitions come with the SA. She is able to talk about the bulima to a degree -- in our moving sale, she had some of her colletables for sale & it served to remind her of all the collections of stuff she has and she even used the term compulsive with some of them. In the area of antiques, we have 5, 6 different chairs; different bowls, cups -- a complete china set, a dresser, cedor chest, end table, and a side bar.
She has 100 + "Boyd Bears" and figurines, 80+ shelia houses,and several collectable plates. Her most recent passion has been white McCoy Pottery -- has at least 80 differnt pieces --
I really don't care & have actually come to appreciate this kind of thing. It is just a little irrating that she has always had this attitide that I have never made enough money and that has been a source of unhappiness for her & as she recently said a reason for her lack of respect for me. Our house sold for $171 K, by the way, which for Westerm PA is not luxurious, but is by no means in the poverty area. It's just that she has continually complained about money I spend -- like when I spend over 5.00 for lunches or $3.00 for a box of crackers that she felt was too much, or when I buy a box of golf balls for $30.00 and of course playing golf -- which she plays as well. She once bought a couch & love seat for $600 + (I mistakenly reported $800 a few weeks ago) without consulting with me & another time she bought a $250 + mattress w/o saying a word to me --??? And for God sakes you've heard enough about the cloths! And she thinks I try to control her --???? <p>Again, I really don't care, but I do sometimes resent her focus -- she says she doesn't eat lunch a lot, so that makes up for her buying! I guess, she just does not think I should have lunch every day -- she feels I should starve myself as well?!
BTW, she has always worked Part Time Retiel store 20-25 hours a week & usually (except for this last year)she has about 5 -6 weeeks off, where she would visit family & all.
Thanks for allowing a slight vent here!
I am not actually worked up -- just releasing.
Hope all is well with you! Like I said, we're doing better actually.
Peace be with you!
HH

PlainJane - I so admire your willingness to share the MANY difficulties that you have faced and to honestly share in the mistakes you have made. You are one of the WS's from whom I've drawn insight over the past year. Thank you!<p>Twyla - Funny I was poking about this morning and saw your reply here. I very much appreciate your comments and passed them on to MY Jane. We are doing very well. I really like your comment. And you're right too. We do deserve each other!