I feel somewhat guilty even writing this, as I read other's posts, I realize that I am one of the lucky ones, if you can call being a BS lucky. As I posted before, I found out about my husband's A on 10-12-01. It came as a complete shock. I was extremely happy with our marriage, and felt my husband was also. We communicated well (or so I thought), had tons of stuff in common, went away together often, had fun, great sex, and so on and so forth. Husband was perfect, always told me he loved me, sent cards, wrote love letters, met ALL my emotional needs, and I tried to do the same for him. Anyway, without getting into all the detail of the affair AGAIN, I just can't seem to get over it. I love my husband more than anything in the world, but sometimes I think I just want to leave because I can't deal with the pain. I'm so hurt, and I still can't believe he did this to me. He has been so remorseful and so loving, and I've tried really hard to understand, but something in me won't let me back down. I feel like I'm trying to sabatouge any happiness we have. I feel like I'm lucky in the fact that my husband never had feelings for the OW, broke it off himself, never wanted to see or speak to her again, and has spent every minute since DDay trying to make it up to me. All I keep thinking is that he inflicted this horrible pain on me, turned my life upside down, promised to protect me and treat me with respect and honor, and after being through the pain of EMA and being a BS in my first marriage, which present husband was well aware of, he does it to me too. Also, I was going through some very emotional and heartbreaking things at the time of my husband's affair (trying to get pregnant, terrible fight with mother and siblings, vengeful ex-husband, etc.) and really needed my husband's support, which he did give me, but behind my back was having sex with another woman!! How do I get over it, I just don't know. I've tried, really tried. I've read numerous books on affairs, I just read SAA, I know why affairs happen, I'm trying to understand, I know my husband loves me, I love him, but I can't let go of the hurt, pain, and disbelief. I trusted this man with my life. I believed in him. I told him he set me up for this failure. He let me think he was the most wonderful man in the world who I never had to worry about hurting me, as he said it numerous times, and then he does this! I'm so sad all the time. Initially, I was so shattered I actually had fantasies about killing myself (I can't believe I'm actually admitting that), I wouldn't have done it, but I did think about it alot. Now I just want the pain to end, and I think that if I leave him I can put it all behind me. I don't think I'll ever trust another man ever again. Maybe nuns have the right idea. Is love worth going through this hell for? I do have some good days, and I can function well (I'm a great actress). No one knows what we're going through except for my best friend. I go to work, go to family functions, entertain, appear happy, sometimes even feel happy for a short time, but then the memories come back, and I'm sunk in a pit of despair. I guess I haven't accepted it yet. I cannot believe my husband did this to me. I can't believe he lied to me for a whole year. I can't believe he actually had sexual contact with another woman, came home, made love to me, and acted like the happiest guy in the world. Laying in bed all I think about is him with her, did they do it like we do, did he hold her, kiss her, tell her she was great in bed? The thoughts are killing me. He tells me it wasn't like with us, he didn't hold her afterward, blah blah blah. I don't believe it. Is it that I choose not to believe it or am I afraid I'm a fool if I believe it? Does it even matter? Why can't I just leave it behind and start over? My husband is willing to do anything for me to get over this. I just don't know if I can. I think I need some serious help, but I'm so afraid of picking a bad counseler who will just make things worse. In a nutshell I'm just afraid. Thanks for listening, I just needed to talk.

there is nothing wrong with you, your feelings are healthy and normal, you no longer feel safe with your H, and have realistic reasons not to....your emotions arise from the fact you now live in a dichotomy, you live as a married person (who should feel safe with and trust spouse), but have good reason not to trust, this places you in conflict with yourself at primal levels (survival).<p>There is no easy solution, IMO one has to roll back the relational clock, and essentially date your spouse again, and decide based on that whether you want to be married to them. Some can do this while close, others have to seperate, some need to divorce, to get the proper balance and feel they can see things clearly....Possibly you need to withdraw from your H, at least emotionally, stop trying to be the forgiving wife, and focus on how you really feel about this, and let your spouse (through actions) demonstate who he really is, in the meantime doing the work necessary (and counselling is almost essential) to figure out exactly what happened...I wouldn't put to much stock in your H remorsefullness, he wandered, apparently just for a lark since he had no problem dropping her, that makes him a potential player (user) of people, out for himself, and that may be what is triggering your unease, a worry about that. Now he wants you back, so he turns on the charm and plays you...maybe, I dunno, but you need to find out, and I suspect that is what concerns you deep down....anyways I found your post perfectly normal, and healthy given your circumstances...godd luck.

I am the same way...my WH is completely remorseful, tells me everything that happened, blah blah. The only difference is our marriage wasn't perfect before the A, and we started MC right before the A happened. WH actually thought that I was going to leave then, and I think that made the A "more acceptable" in his mind. We both have fear of abandonment issues. Anyhow, what makes me stand by my marriage is the fact that WH is going to MC and will be starting IC soon to help him deal with the issues that allowed him to have an A: fear of abandonment, can't say no, people pleaser, etc. I know that since he is willing to figure this out that I should stand by him. I also know that I would want to be with the man he becomes...the compulsive lying is what scares me, but I can see changes, slow but sure. I would suggest going to your doctor and getting on antidepressents to help you stay focused. I am on Zoloft, but haven't noticed much change yet, but it's only been 2 weeks. Next I would definately suggest IC if not MC. You will need help dealing with these feelings. Until then, start journaling to get this feelings OUT. I know there are days where I want to run, and run far, but I know that won't solve anything. I have to give it my best shot, I owe it to myself, my marriage, and my little boy. It's too easy to give up, and I for once in my life am not taking the easy way out. Good luck. You will get a lot of great advice from people here.

Teresa<p>Your post really struck me as i could have wrote the following about my W (WS).<p>TeresaT said: "I was extremely happy with our marriage, and felt my husband was also. We communicated well (or so I thought), had tons of stuff in common, went away together often, had fun, great sex, and so on and so forth. Husband was perfect, always told me he loved me, sent cards, wrote love letters, met ALL my emotional needs, and I tried to do the same for him."<p>That is exactly how I felt about my W and our marriage...<p>Much of the remainder of your post is very much like my story also...in a way kind of eerie except that we know here that many stories can be so similar.<p>Nonetheless, you and I differ in one respect...that is that my W and I are separated andI would love to have her treat me the way your H is treating you... I have learned how to forgive and have (I think) put the resentment behind me.<p>All I really want is for my W to return with the same type of commitment I have (and it seems the commmitment your H is making to you and your M) so we can go forward.<p>My advice to you (for what it is worth) is to keep reading the stuff here and post and ask questions...Don't stop at just reading SAA. There are other good books on this topic that can help. After the Affiar is one, Divorce Remedy is another.<p>Despite what you may think, you are relatively new to this....just four months past d-day. It's only natural for you to be confused and to have th emotions you do. At some point, no matter what happens, you have to let that stuff go. You can't feel resentment for the rest of your life because it will hurt YOU more than anyone else.<p>I came across the following early in this process:<p>"Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die." <p>Forgiveness is what you do for yourself...give yourself the time and patience it will take to get over this and if you truly love your H and he continues to do what sounds like just all the right stuff for a WS to do in this situation you will be OK....<p>If you and your H are not in counseling I would strongly recommend it together or alone.<p>Take it slow...don't expect your feelings to change overnight...but do give yourself the chance to heal...time and patience....easy to say, tough to do, but it will make you a stronger, more complete person...and it will give your relationship a chance to heal...<p>Good luck <p>E [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Dear TeresaT,<p> I can relate completely to the way you feel. I think that it makes it harder to accept the whole thing if you truly believed that you had a great marriage before, with all the necessary components present and few or no problems that you can pinpoint. What it comes down to for me is that how can I trust that all is fine now if I thought that before (given the circumstances) and then it really turns out that I was being betrayed and did not even consider it a possibility! How can I trust MYSELF and MY perceptions in this case? Your whole world view becomes skewed. <p>I, too think about what they did together and how he felt about her, its been only 5 months since D-Day for me. So its still fresh in my mind. He is intent on making amends to me and our children, but right now I feel like I can't trust him. <p>Have you gone to see a therapist for yourself? I helped me alot, so I don't dwell on it as much as I have in the past. Also it helps that our MC suggested that my H take a polygraph test every 6 months for awhile to prove to me he was being faithful. My H agreed wholeheartedly and even went to far as to say that if he ever says he won't do it, to consider it an automatic positive. Its like an x-ray, making visible what you an't normally see. Take care, Carmen

Teresa,<p>Your story is amazingly similar to mine as well. Second M, BS in previous M, vindictive ex-H. In my case, I felt safe enough to marry my H because he also was the BS in his previous 2 Ms. We spent hours talking, just as we BSs do here, about the pain and how we got through it, and we agreed that it was so unnecessary, that we would never do anything like that to each other. Even though it was hard to imagine at that time, we still agreed that if we ever wanted to be with someone else, we would just tell the other rather than do all the backstabbing stuff we'd each been through.<p>So, I'm his 3rd W and have been faithful to him more than twice as long as either of his previous Ms lasted, and it's me he does this to. I think Zorweb's story is also similar, so you may want to check in with her.<p>I am very much where you are, though my H will only do the things I need when I threaten to leave and then only for a few days. But emotionally I am also dealing with the same stuff. I think about even if he does do all the things I need, what then? It will never be what it could have been. I will always know he chose someone else over me. That is not love to me, so then what is it? This doesn't feel like a M, so what is it? I struggle with this on a daily basis.<p>I also join SNL in cautioning that you may not yet have the full story and that your subconscience is aware of this and is protecting you. My H was also very remorseful and attentive, etc. in the beginning, but that waned away and then the true story finally started coming out. What he originally insisted was just "a couple of times in July" turned out to be a full-blown love affair in which HE was the pursuer from January into Oct/Nov/Dec (?)--still don't know everything yet. He was planning to leave me and was planning a future with the OW.<p>Your protective instincts are normal and are there for a reason. The way I deal with it is with the journal as weRtrying suggests. I spew everything in there that is eating me up inside. I give myself permission to not be committed to this M. I think of myself as being in a transitional relationship. I have no idea if I will be able to settle for this or not, and I don't feel strong enough yet to separate and deal with all the sequelae--poverty, moving, court stuff--all very stressful. Right now, I'm taking the path of least resistance, and that is okay.<p>Part of what keeps me here is that I don't want to have ANOTHER hellish ex-H. For now, the M-type relationship keeps him under control and allows me some time to heal.<p>I guess that's what helps me the most--knowing I don't have to be here any longer than I want to, that I am under no obligation to remain in this R. I recognize the reality of the situation, that it will never be what I wanted in life. I think of it like a paraplegic--the M will never walk or run again. But many paraplegics manage to have satisfying lives. The difference for us is that we have a choice. We can stay in the wheelchair or we can stand up and walk away.<p>I think about a lot of things, and mostly it is thinking about my children that keeps me in the wheelchair. There is no guarantee that I will find the love I want, so for the time being it has not been worth destroying their world for just the CHANCE I could find what I want. Life with my H is not so oppressive that the alternative looks more attractive. I really have no attractive choices, so I'm just standing still for now.<p>And it is okay for you to do that, too. If your H will talk with you about your fears, aversions, etc., that might help. I end up getting too LBed whenever I try to talk to my H about all that, which disturbs my comfort level too much. I have accepted that my H is not the love of my life I thought he was. He is a lover right now, and I imagine that if a better one came along, I'd finally have the motivation to get out of this R. Right now, it's just not worth the trouble it would be.<p>Please feel free to release some of your pent-up feelings because so many of us here can identify with them. I know in the "real world" I feel so strange sometimes because most people I encounter have no idea what is going on in my life and inside of me, and it helps to share these feelings with others on the same path.<p>Sometimes it's just the simple things, like in conversation when I have to refer to him and say "my husband", stuff goes off inside me about he is not really like a husband to me, but I don't know what else to call him. A true husband would not do what he did to me.<p>What I thought was true love I now know is tainted love, and I think that's as good as it can get, but maybe someday I might believe it is actually a form of love. Right now, that just doesn't compute. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Thanks all for your replies. Sometimes I think I'm going crazy, and then I come here and realize we all feel like this at times, and I feel a little better. I have thought about keeping a journal as I have so much to vent about, and so many pent up emotions. I am so angry!!!! I read and read and all I keep seeing is how I have to Plan A, and show WS what a good wife I am, and meet his needs, and be his source of happiness, etc., etc. It really pisses me off. Why do I have to do that? I was and am a good person, wife, mother, lover. I didn't cheat on him, he cheated on me. Whatever happened to being faithful and loving because that is what was promised? I realize I am a little touchy right now, but I truly believe that I can't move forward because I AM so angry and resentful. I know I'm not only hurting my WS, but myself too. I just don't know how to get rid of the anger and resentment. Hopefully, talking here and journaling will help. I try to talk to my husband about how I feel, but it ends up with my LB'ing him majorely, as he interprets my conversation as telling him what a [censored] he was, and how horrible it was what he did to me. I know he's right, but it's like I try to be understanding and loving, and then it all goes out the window. The major roadblock we have is that I don't 100% believe his story. I believe maybe 75%. He says that as long as I don't believe him, then I won't be able to trust him, and we'll never move forward. I think he is afraid that if he told me the whole truth, I'll surely leave, but I say I can't accept what I don't know. He swears there is nothing more to tell, but my gut tells me there is. My instincts have never been wrong before. So tell me, can I possibly recover if I feel he is still hiding some of the story, or should I just drop it, understand that I'll never know the whole truth, and try to fully recover? I'm driving myself crazy with this.

teresa...I try to talk to my husband about how I feel, but it ends up with my LB'ing him majorely, as he interprets my conversation as telling him what a [censored] he was, and how horrible it was what he did to me.<p>snl..If this is accurate, it is a classic sympton of a controller, they turn everything back on you, they are always the victim...<p>He was a [censored], and he did do a horrible thing, and it is not a LB to tell him....If, and I really mean IF he is truly remorseful, and capable of acting in your interest he would have absolutely no trouble with you telling him these things...he should be acknowledgeing them, validating your feelings, and not be defensive at all, nada, zippo....it is these kinds of inappropriate responses that are triggering your unease, the pattern is off, he is not reacting right, and your gut knows that.

Teresa, I'm where you are--crushed and devastated by my husband's infidelity, and feeling guilty because he is remorseful and makes efforts to comfort me and assure me of his fidelity from now on. I don't mean this to be depressing, but I'm 8 months and 7 days post D-day, and I'm still grief-stricken and utterly depressed. And yes, still angry.<p>I'm trying everything I can--I have a couple of very supportive confidants, I take anti-depressants, I have a counselor and I'm in a Bible study which speaks to the broken-hearted: Beth Moore's Breaking Free. I try to forgive my husband, I write in a journal, two days ago my husband told me with tears in his eyes that he wants Christ to be the head of our marriage now, I know I'm doing the right thing in trying to stay in the marriage because we have two young boys who need their father. So why, why, why am I still so miserable? All the life has gone out of me, I don't care about anything anymore, except maybe my children. Even there, I only do what I have to and then I want to be alone in my misery.<p>I think all the time of this betrayer, how he knew that I would be devastated, how he selfishly pursued these women for his own pleasure, mentally assigning myself and the children to a life of betrayal and single parenthood. How could he be that man? Was the kind, honorable and loving man I thought I married just wishful thinking on my part? Did he never exist at all?<p>I just don't know if I can handle this. I don't know if I can stay married to such a cruel, heartless person, I don't know if I should and I don't know if I will. At 37 to learn that there is to be no more trusting love in my life? I don't think I can bear it.<p>This is no answer to you, and for that I'm sorry. I sometimes think the prevailing attitude here (while completely well-meaning) is that if you are feeling pain, just squelch it into a good Plan A. To tell you the truth, if my husband didn't want to stay married to me because I wasn't proving to him that I was the best choice, this would just solve my problem once and for all. He doesn't deserve Plan A (which I know is not the issue), but neither do I deserve to be married to him, either.<p>Rose Red

What helps me is to think of Plan A as a training period, that I am doing this (learning and applying the MB principles, overcoming bad habits, working at being a good W) for me and my FUTURE H. This H does not currently deserve what he is getting from me. I do not do it for his benefit, but for mine. Whether he will be that future H or not I don't know at this time, but I do know that I want my next relationship to be a mutually satisfactory one, so I want to learn to be the best partner I can be. So it's just secondary that my H gets the goodies. That is not my motivation.<p>You are dealing with the same reticence I'm having. It should not be us pointing out how heinous what they did was. Until the WS is able to articulate that and demonstrate acceptance of their responsibility for it to our satisfaction, I believe we will stay "stuck". It is not our responsibility to trust them. We DID trust them, and they violated that. It is the WS's responsibility to be accountable for themselves now that they have proven themselves to be untrustworthy.<p>It is really very simple. It is the unrepentant WS who tries to muddy everything up and complicate everything. Don't get sucked in.<p>You can't force him to tell you everything you need to know, but you can decide whether or not you want to continue in a R without radical honesty and appropriate accountability after adultery has been committed against you. If he cannot appreciate that, then he may end up facing some unsavory consequences.<p>That is what Plan A and Plan B are about. Giving you time to correct whatever shortcomings you had in the M and learn better ways of relating, and it gives the WS time to come out of their "fog" and get down to the business of marital recovery. If they choose not to take advantage of that opportunity, then Plan B is available to help the BS withdraw from the WS and get on with their life. If the WS ever "gets it" and wants to pursue marital recovery, then it is up to the BS to decide if they want to.<p>So, Plan A and Plan B are dual in purpose. They help the BS recover and prepare for a better M, but they can also provide a window of opportunity for the WS to join the BS on the road to recovery. If that opportunity is squandered, then the BS has still benefitted from the time spent in self-discovery and self-improvement.<p>I have not pursued any R talks in almost a month, and I'm thinking about giving my H a progress report, or more appropriately a lack-of-progress report maybe once a month until I'm ready to Plan B because I honestly think that he thinks if I'm not pursuing R talks I am happy with the way things are going. I think to be fair I should let him know that nothing has changed, that I am still not committed to the M, that I am still waiting for what I need from him, that there is still a LOT of work to do to recover from this, and most of it needs to be done by him.<p>If your H is not trustworthy, then you are under no obligation to trust him, and as SNL points out, he should be the first to acknowledge that. When WSs finally OWN what they did to their BS, they have no problem understanding, articulating, and making amends for that.<p>My H is very resentful of my need for him to be accountable for his whereabouts and the other extraordinary precautions suggested by the Harleys, but his resentment will not make my need go away or talk me out of it. If he does not make clear to me what is going on behind my back, I will simply assume he is doing what he has done before--stabbing me in the back--and if he doesn't like it, he can leave the M because I will never blindly trust him again. He took that gift and crapped all over it. I won't be giving it again. It now has to be earned.<p>A reasonable and rational person has no difficulty understanding and accepting that.<p>[ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

Well, I'm in a really bad place right now mentally. WS started a new job two months ago, as a clinical field specialist. He has a territory from Pennsylvania to Virginia, and is gone usually one night a week. He understands how hard this is for me, or so he says, but it is better than being at the job with OW. The problem right now is that his direct supervisor wanted him to spend some time with the senior clinical field specialist to better his skills, and it happens to be a woman. I initially didn't have a problem with it, but recently she e-mailed him a few times, and the tone I thought was overly friendly. Obviously he thought I was being ridiculous, unfoundedly jealous, and he was probably right, but after what I've been through I read into everything. I asked him not to go out to her territory, but have her come here. This way he could still be home at night. He agreed. I explained how uncomfortable I was with the idea of him flying out to her territory and staying in a hotel there. He said he would try to avoid going with her at all, as he's been very busy in the new position in his territory and he was hoping his supervisor would realize that. He's been getting very rave reviews from the clients he's visited. Anyway, after going through the e-mail today, (we share an e-mail address) I read an e-mail sent today by his supervisor that was a reply to one my husband sent him yesterday. In that e-mail, my husband asked his supervisor if it would be alright if he went out to the senior specialist's territory instead of her coming to his. I flipped out. I called him on his cell phone and left him a message telling him I'd had it. Of course he calls me right back and tells me to let him explain. I said "sorry, I'm done listening to your explanations". He contends that he really doesn't want to go with her, and that she left him messages twice yesterday asking when they could ride together, and apparently they were both too busy over the next two weeks with appointments. Husband says he asked his supervisor if he could go to her territory just to let him know he was still working on meeting up with her, but that he would just make sure his calendar was filled and eventually his supervisor would see he is doing so well he'd drop asking husband to go along senior specialist. I felt he was being sneaky and underhanded. Number one, he didn't tell me she called him yesterday, and number two, he didn't tell me about the e-mail. I told him not telling me things is the same as lying, it is lying by omission. He just does not see it. He acted all righteous and indignant that I would read his e-mail and not trust him. I told him if he ever wants me to rebuild my trust, then he has to tell me about encounters with female co-workers that may potentially upset me. He says I'm ridiculous and that I don't tell him every single thing about my day. I said I'm not the one who cheated and lied for a year. So we're at an impasse right now. I'm furious that he doesn't see how fragile things are right now, and that he actually has the ba--s to act like he's the injured party. I realize there are things about his job that he will have to do that I won't like, and if his supervisor insists that he ride along with this woman, then that's what he has to do, but why send this e-mail asking if it's okay to go to her territory when he knows how I feel about it, and then he doesn't even tell me. I'm so hurt and disgusted by his attitude that I took my wedding ring off and told him he doesn't need or want a wife. He says I'm treating him like one of my children. I said I thought you'd do anything to help me recover, this isn't helping. He's angry that I'm snooping (his word). I said too bad, I'll be snooping for quite some time, and even more now that he has this attitude. What do you all think, am I being unreasonable?

Teresa,
Just want to reinforce that all your feelings are normal. Your life has just been turned upside down and this is still new. <p>Your husband needs to be completely honest with you and tell you everything, no matter how little it seems to him. The problem is that he has his own issues to deal with -- the biggest one right now is you not trusting him and him feeling like he's being treated like a child. Believe me, I am not sticking up for him -- I am almost 2 years past D-Day and from my experience with my husband, and getting to know WS's on message boards, they feel like this. Every time they have to "report" back to you they feel like it's being thrown in their face again, they have to face themselves again, and worry that you will never trust them or get over this. And if they are being honest, faithful, remorseful, etc. they get frustrated thinking "why won't my spouse believe me, I'm not doing anything wrong, etc.".
They are also known (especially men)to be able to put things in the past and just want to move forward -- and they can't understand why we can't do the same thing. Unforunately, they don't understand what the BS needs....and I really don't have an answer to help....I just kept telling my husband over and over that "this is what I need you to do to rebuild the trust". <p>But right now you need to deal with "your issues" not "his issues". You need to take care of yourself. A year past D-Day I was still having an awful time - our marriage had improved tremdously and my husband was doing all the right things - but I was still unhappy, depressed, and stuck (obssessed)in the affair. One day my husband did and said the wrong thing - nothing major any other day - but it was the last straw this day and I broke down. I thought I was losing my mind, I was neglecting my kids, crying all the time, driving myself nuts playing detective, etc. Previously I was too proud and afraid to go to counseling -- I already went through the embarassment of going to my doctor for STD tests, while putting a smile on my face that I was doing okay. When I broke down I realized I couldn't do this by myself and that I needed help (I had my RRR message board friends but I needed help in everyday life and BTW, they had been trying to talk me into counseling for a while). So I went back to the doctor and ending up crying hysterically.....I have been taking anti-depressants for a year now and went to individual counseling for 9 months. It changed my life! My therapist said I had "post-tramatic stress" and "obsessive/complusive disorder". He assured me that I was not crazy and that this is very common for the BS. My goal in therapy was to take care of myself first, deal with my issues, become a better me, and sort out what I needed and wanted from my life....and sometimes you just need to spill everything out without someone judging you. Sorry, I didn't mean to go on for so long.....my point is to take care of you, you are normal but don't ignore getting help if you need it -- I don't want you to end up where I was a year later, it wasn't fun.<p>Don't be too hard on yourself right now and stay strong. <p>My prayers & hugs,
JJ

Thank you JJ for your kind words. You are so understanding and have hit the nail on the head. I really am a mess. A few weeks ago I seemed do be doing so well, and now I'm almost as bad as I was in the weeks right after DDay. I've started smoking, I don't sleep well, and the least little thing can reduce me to tears. When I read that e-mail yesterday it sent me right into a "flight or fight syndrome", my face got red, my heart started racing, and my legs were shaking uncontrollably. As an RN, I know how bad it is to be in this state of stress all the time, not to mention the risks of smoking. I know I need to see a counselor, I just don't know where to begin. It's not like you can ask your friends and neighbors to recommend one, and the thought of picking one out of the phone book scares me. I have to do it soon though. <p>The way you describe the WS is exactly how my husband is. He doesn't understand why I can't just accept what he did, understand he knows how wrong he was, trust him again as he says he's grown up and learned a big lesson and will never hurt me like that again, and move on. I feel like we'll never be on the same page. I can't believe that just four short months ago I was so happy, and within minutes I felt like I walked into someone else's life. I think my heart is truly broken. My husband was the man women dreamed of being married to. My friends and coworkers were so jealous. They still tell me how lucky I am to be married to him, he's such a great guy. I thought so too until this. What a bitter pill to swallow. When my ex husband cheated the second time and I found out, it was almost no big deal. Our marriage was at that point a marriage of convenience, we each pretty much went our own way, and at that point I really didn't care anymore. When I got married this time, I vowed that I would never be treated like I was in my first marriage ever again. My new husband was my best friend, something I never had the first time. He talked to me, did things to show he cared, was a gentleman, kind to everyone, just an all around wonderful person. The fact that he lied and cheated and deceived me is more than I can bear. I look at him and think, "who is this man"? Did I give him qualities he didn't really have? Am I that bad of a judge of character? But no, everyone else loves him too. I've come to realize that something very troubling was going on with my husband when he allowed this to happen, but in my heart I still believe he should have been strong enough, moral enough, loving enough, man enough, to realize the damage he would do and be able to resist. Anyway, thanks again to all the wonderful, caring folks on this board. I'm very sorry that I don't respond very much to others, I just feel that I don't have much advice right now being such a mess myself, and hopefully in the future I'll be able to help others like I'm being helped.

Teresa, you don't mention if you are a Christian, but you might try praying about a counselor. A month or so ago, I was so desperate for a counselor I was nearly frantic. I thumbed miserably through the phone book, but like you, I didn't expect anything from that. We're new in this town, and I didn't know anyone to ask. That night, while telling God over and over how crushed and in pain I was, a thought suddenly "popped" into my mind, "Ask S---- H---- to pray for me." She is a lovely older woman who I felt I could trust. The next morning I called her and in the course of talking she asked me if I had a counselor. "Well, let me give you the number of a counselor I have used before!" she said. And the rest is history. I like her counselor, and both my husband and I are seeing her individually before beginning marriage counseling with her (soon, I hope.) No worries about him seeing a female counselor, either. She is kind of like a highly intelligent "Pat." (Remember that sexually ambiguous person on SNL?)<p>Good luck, Teresa--I hope you find a counselor soon. God does want to hear from you, but you can also call your OB/Gyn to get a recommendation.<p>Rose Red

Hi Teresa. JJ pointed me to this post and thought I might be able to share some things with you. I am, as you might figure, one of the Redbook Rif Raf, but I hope that I can help shine some light in on your heart.<p>I am a betrayer, and first off I want to tell you that I do not think you are being unreasonable at all. Your hurt, pain, distrust, fears, etc. are all real, and your husband needs to realize this. In your first post you talk about how you just want it to go away, but it can't. You have to realize and accept that this will be there, probably always. The pain and hurt will ease as time goes, but the reality of the affair will always be there. You will never totally forget it. You and your husband both have to understand, though, that you can forgive and not completely forget. Actually, neither of you should really "forget", because by remembering it will only help you grow stronger together.<p>Your husband needs to give you the chance to really sit down and tell him exactly how you feel about all this. And, most important, he needs to really listen. Sure, you give him bits and pieces of your feelings and thoughts, here and there, but it's not the same. Hubby and I learned through therapy that he really needed a chance to sit down and tell all, all at one time. I needed to give him that opportunity without being defensive, and pretty much without saying much. My part in all that was to listen and acknowledge HIM. I had to accept and realize that I made all the choices in the affair and now the choices lie with him, and the only way for him to be able to forgive is to be able to release the feelings he was harboring.<p>Then, my part comes. . . I needed to be able to really look inside of me and see what it was that lead me down that road. I had to be willing to talk when he wanted to talk and to answer any and all questions he needed answered, no matter how hard it was for me to do that. However, my dear, you too need to acknowledge that he has pain and hurt as well. Yes, your pain should come first, I'll admit that, but as a betrayer, our pain cannot go unnoticed or unacknowledged. It's not easy to disect your very being and stare the skeletens in your closent right in the eyes (or sockets [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ). That makes us vulnerable. That says I'm not perfect, I did my spouse wrong. We have to own to the fact that the one person we swore our life to, the person we promised to love and protect, is the one person we neglected to do that for. When looking inward at these flaws, it's not pretty at all. Then, the reality that your beloved spouse sees you in this light is even harder to deal with. So, it's not that he doesn't want to share and help you, he doesn't want you to see him in the shadow of lies that he has found himself in.<p>As for the "snooping", I believe you have every right to. He needs to realize that he has to tell you everything for awhile. He has to EARN your trust back. He has to understand that you are offering him your heart and soul, once again, and when he least deserves it. Even if it's something he thinks is minor and/or insignificant, he needs to share that with you. The two of you really need to talk too. Communication is definately the key. And learning how to communicate properly to benefit your relationship is important. Also, I don't know if you have heard about the 5 love languages, but they are oh so true. Once you learn to talk to eachother in the other persons love language, your road will seem a bit easier to travel because you will feel that you are really doing it together.<p>You have a long road ahead of you. It will seem sowed and easy to travel at times, and other times you will find there are many rocks and some boulders in your way. Don't be afraid of these obstacles, they are normal and all apart of rebuilding. Don't try to put yourself in his shoes as far as having the affair, it will only frustrate you. You cannot and will not ever fully understand why. Understand what he tells you, and don't get frustrated that you simply can't relate. That's the key there, you can't relate and you never will because in your strength you would never do such a thing. Unfortuntately it's just one of those things you have to accept that you can't get the answer to. I'm not saying that any old answer he gives should be accepted, but don't fret if he gives you something that makes sense yet you still simply can't understand "WHY". <p>I hope this helps you some, and if you have any other questions for me that may help clear something up that I wrote or a question you thought of as a result of something I wrote, feel free to ask. I'd love to help.<p>In closing I'd like to say, be true, stay strong, but remember that it's ok to feel weak at times.

Thank you Rose Red and tutter. Rose Red, yes I am a Christian, and believe me, I've asked God to help me get through this more times than I can count. In fact, I think the only thing that helped me stay functional initially after finding out was my belief that God would pick me up when I couldn't. As far as counseling, I went through the yellow pages this morning, and scrutinized each and every listing for counselors, and called one that I thought would meet my needs. I spoke to a lovely receptionist about what I needed counseling for, and she assured me that they had someone to fit my needs, so I have an appointment for next week.<p>tutter, thanks for giving me some insight as to what goes on in the betrayer's mind. My husband has told me how much pain he is in, and I see it on his face. I know that he can't stand to see what this has done to me. I've tried to sit down and talk to him numerous times about the way I feel, but it always ends in an argument with him feeling like eveything I say points out how despicable he is. I guess I'm going about it in the wrong way. I'm unable to sustain a conversation without my resentment and bitterness showing through. I also ask and reask the same questions hoping I'll finally understand "why". Your post has shown me that I'll never know "why". I'm not my husband, and I can't get into his head. I just can't imagine that I'd ever hurt anyone I love the way he has hurt me. Sometimes I think the hurt is just so big that I can't forgive. Then I feel guilty. There are also so many extenuating circumstances surrouning this that to me make the affair almost unforgiveable. For one, at the time we were trying to get pregnant. I already have three children and my husband has none. I was pretty much past the age of conceiving, but I knew how much my husband wanted a child, and I would have loved to have another one too, so I started fertility treatments, which included two surgeries, about two years ago. I had just had the second surgery a few months before the affair started, and I had my first IUI (intra-uterine insemination a few weeks before the affair started. So we were waiting for the results when he initially became involved with the OW. Also, we had only been married nine months when he began the affair. During the year that the affair was going on we made settlement on a house, bought into the Disney Vacation Club (we're both Disney fanatics), gone on a very romantic vacation, went through five more IUI's that were all unsuccessful, bought a pool, spent tons of money on a fence and paved patio for our backyard, bought a hot tub for the backyard, and all in all were ecstacically happy with the way our life was going, at least I was. While on vacation in May as my husband and I sat around an open fire at the resort we were at, it was dusk and the stars were out and you could hear crickets chirping, and see fireflies twinkling, I felt such at peace, and I turned to my husband and said "do you realize how lucky we are that we are here at this place and time?" He said yes, he knew. In the meantime, he is having an affair with OW. Everytime I think back to that I feel like throwing up. This is what I mean when I say what he did was unforgiveable. He says he really did mean it, and that he was trying for months to end the affair without me finding out. His story is that he was afraid OW would tell me out of anger and revenge, so he was trying to get her to end it, which if you read my other posts, did not work. These are some of the reasons I have uncontrollable anger and resentment. I thought, how dare he let us buy all these things while he was having an affair. He says he did that because he knew he loved me and only wanted his life with me, and was trying to end the affair with as little fallout as possible. Okay, done with my rambling. Thanks for offering to be there for any questions I may have. I know I have a ton of them.<p>Teresa

Teresa,
How are you doing today? Finding a counselor can be hard - I lucked out - I went to one that worked in my doctor's office on the recommendation of my doctor. I have heard many of my friends say that they went to quite a few before they found one that worked for them. The point being don't give up! You might have to switch a few times before you find one that you feel comfortable with. You can ask friends or co-workers for recommendations (and can always say "I'm asking for a friend"), you can ask one of your doctors, or go to talk to a clergyperson.
And don't be afraid to confide in a close friend or family member. These message boards are great but you need someone in your daily life to talk to and support you - remember, you did nothing wrong and have nothing to be ashamed about! We are all responsible for our marriage problems but we are not responsible for the action/option our spouse took. <p>IMO, the first thing you should do is see a doctor or NP to take care of your sleep problem and possibly go on anti-depressants. I am the last person to ever recommend drugs and it was so hard to admit that I needed something. I take Elavil which is an anti-depressant but mostly used more for sleep problems. Two years later I still have sleep problems and continue to take it in a lower dosage. There are also many books on treating depression naturally -- through diet, excerise, herbs, etc. I know how hard it is for you right now but you have to take care of yourself!! You need to eat right, start sleeping, and getting some excerise! And do some nice things for yourself -- get a new haircut, take a bubble bath, join a health club, take an adult education class -- anything that is positive for you! And force yourself to journal and vent, on paper or here, let it all out!<p>More hugs & prayers,
JJ

Hi jj, I'm doing okay I guess. I made an appointment with a counselor for next week. I've thought about seeing my doctor, but being a nurse, I know my doc personally, as I do most of the ones in my area, and I'm a little hesitant about airing my problems, especially when I see them in work almost every day. That's another reason why I'm hesitant to try any anti-depressants. I see having to take them as a failure in myself that I can't handle things myself. Silly, I know. Also, I have to have major surgery in May for a problem leading to the cause of my now infertility, and I'm already on a med for the next three months that will hopefully reduce my risk of severe bleeding during the surgery, but it also can cause depression. So I don't know if I'm more depressed over the state of my marriage, or if the medicine I'm on is causing me to be more depressed. Everything is always so complicated. I've thought about opening up to my gyn to see if there are any contraindications to taking the med I'm on along with an antidepressant, but after him meeting my husband while we were going through the infertility treatment, and him thinking my husband is such a great guy also, I'm embarrassed to let him in on the real story. I have confided in my best friend. It was really hard, as she thinks so highly of my husband too, but talking to her does help. She feels so bad for both of us. I'll let you all know how I'm progressing. Good luck and pixie dust (Disney speak) to all of you.<p>Teresa

Back again.....just read your post....I'm so happy you made that phone call!<p>Teresa, I agree with Tutter that sometimes you have to let go of the "why"....at least for now.
It is very possible, and often so, that this is not about you...it is often "their issue". It is so hard to understand what is in their minds (and Tutter is one WS that has really helped me understand some things). Tutter can probably explain it better but when they are in the affair they are able to "compartmentalize". The time he spent with you was probably real to him and he doesn't see it as a lie. We look at the whole affair period as one big lie and a sham....I don't think they feel the same way and they don't understand how we feel (another one of those "why" questions!). <p>For example, my husband's affair went on over the holiday's, he gave me beautiful diamond stud earrings for Christmas, after D-Day I couldn't wear them anymore and I still don't. I feel like this present was a sick joke and all I can think of is "you bought these for me while you were with her". He can't understand my feelings and thinks it's unrational. He knows he loved me even during the affair, bought me this special present that I really wanted, and thinks it has nothing to do with the affair. We will never agree or understand on this one. <p>What nice thing are you going to do for yourself today? (besides the phone call!)<p>Hugs,
JJ

Teresa: I understand exactly what you are saying. So many times I felt attacked when my husband tried to simply tell me how he was feeling. There is no way to hide your emotions when you are expressing your pain from all this. Here, try something like this. . .<p>"I really need to let you know how I feel. Please don't feel I am attacking you, bringing up things we may have already discussed, bassing you for what's been done or trying to make you defensive. Right now I need you to simply listen. To really hear my pain and listen to what I have to say. I don't really want you to respond or become defensive. I am not trying to hurt you; as a matter of fact I know you hurt as well and I acknowledge that. All I am doing is asking that you allow me to openly express my hurt, my fears, my feelings. That you simply listen to them, and take them for what they are. To understand that I just need to get this all out at once. I only ask that you acknowledge my pain and understand that this is not in anyway an attack on you or what has happened. When you are ready to do that, let me know, because I really need this."<p>As for him trying to end the affair without you knowing, I did the same. Unfortunately, I think it's almost impossible. You cannot accept the reality of the effects of your actions without truly and completely owning them. As much as it has hurt both my husband and me, I needed to clear that slate. I needed to step out of the shadows of my lies before I was able to move forward with my life and my marriage. <p>I know that now it seems impossible to forgive, and it will take time. Many, it takes longer than for others. One day though you will come to a point where you can say "I just want to be done with this (the affair thing), and you will really feel it in your heart." I remember the day my husband told me that. It felt so good that he'd reached that point of peace inside himself, and that I was there to share it with him.<p>My friend, you have a long hard road ahead of you, but I promise that there is a light at the end of this tunnel, and all of your efforts together will be well worth the end result.<p>One other thing, try not to feel that everything he said to you at that time meant nothing. I know it's hard to believe that, but I'm sure he meant the things he said to you. I wish you well, and peace in the near future.