Jo,<p>My symapthies to you. I have already gone through this myself, as my exH got married a couple months after our D. It does rip the scab off your healing heart - that they can "replace" you so quickly. Again, my symapthies to you.<p>Please re-read Katie Scarlet's post. I have to agree with her. Your H is NOT in a position right now to be a good partner to the OW or anyone else (including you, in my opinion) right now. He has not learned any lessons. I will mark it on my calendar today - one day you will post that he is cheating on HER. He has a pattern as a serial cheat, and that will not change without some serious work, professional help and effort on his part. He can change wives, but he can't change his true self without some supreme effort. And, he has expended no effort.<p>In one sense, I do agree with what someone posted - this may force you even more out of your comfort zone. Know that you are not alone. Look how many posters are here to offer you their love and their comfort? You are a great prize of a woman, and I surely your H did love and value you. He is just in dire need of help, Jo. Unfortunately, you can not fix him.<p>Give all your troubles and burdens to God. Tell Him you are too tired today to carry this one. Pray for Him to give you the peace you truly deserve. Know that we all care that you are hurting so very much.<p>Prayers and hugs for you, Desiree

Sorry to hear it,Jo. Just remember, they will reap what they sow. Eventually......

{{{{{{JO}}}}}}}}<p>Engaged isn't married. After all this time what do they need an engagement for? Why doesn't he just marry her straight away? They have a child together for gosh sakes! Probably just an manuever to keep her trap shut, who knows?<p>Jo,hold your head high and wish them well. You know they are really going to need it. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi motherhubbard,<p>I spoke with Ryan's (OC) grandmother today. She has told me that they plan on getting married at the end of the summer. They're having a church wedding ..... so hollllly. Said OW was sporting her ROCK .... all smiles. They both know that I would hear about this from grandmother. I'm sure OW was banking on it.<p>How can they get married in a church? How can he say vows to God AGAIN, AND MEAN THEM, after what my x-H has done?<p>In my H's mind, he thinks he's doing things right. You know, waiting and being engaged first and being proper, with integrity. <p>I know that OW is driving the whole show, but I also know my x-H is a willing passenger.<p>I think his continued love letters/emails and sentimental contact with me was a cruel and selfish game .... he has no conscience. And my feelings have met nothing to him.<p>I'm afraid to say anything else negative, seems all the things I say bad about them make good things happen for them. I never thought he'd do this, I'm sure it's (marriage) going to happen, AND ... I am sure they will live & love happily ever after. With bad memories of his horrible first marriage.<p>I think I have a right to feel f'd over, there is no telling how long he would have continued telling me he loved me and missed me if I wouldn't have insisted he leave me alone. He would have done it up till the wedding.<p>I married very poorly, didn't I.<p>[ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Resilient - this is very hard. I feel your pain, and would love to wrap my arms around you and let you cry your eyes on my shoulder. <p>Remember your H didn't make a better person of himself. He didn't take the years after divorce to look at himself, and see if he is marriage material. This marriage (if it goes through) will not last. The percentage of affair marriages are so low. This is a euphoria, fantasy for him. What is gonna happen when he finds the quirks in her that he doesn't like. What about living a normal american family of bills, stress, mortgages, food, cooking, laundry, etc. <p>My H is (SNL). As you notice he never criticizes the OW. But for thinker, you would think that I am a wicked witch. I am not, I am a very carying woman, with lots of love and affection. With what the OW talked to me on the phone, she lives a very easy life, she doesn't pay the bills, doesn't work, no kids left at home, is a grandma to 2 little girls, she gets up, probably straightens the house, talks on the phone excessively, and basically does things to take up her time. I on the other hand, have raised 4 kids, did work 2 jobs for many years, after injury on the job working for H for the last 12 years, do all the paperwork here, bills, organizational stuff. etc.<p>What I am getting at Resilient, I don't give this marriage a go. He might even cancel the marriage in due time. The OW thinks she has this man wrapped around her finger, and one day the light will come on and the grip will be loosened. This is not a marriage on love, this is a marriage of deceit, betrayal, and lies. <p>Get yourself together, I know it is hard, I am having a hard time too. I have talked to God, and still am, cause I have hurt God too, by telling him why me? I know God is good to me, but during this stress, I feel he has left me to defend for myself, like you must feel. I know I am wrong, but I am still battling this battle.<p>You are a good person, you did what you could, but he has chosen to live a life of deceit, and dishonesty. Let him be, and let him see the real future with this OW for himself. I can almost guarantee it will not be what he expects it to be. The truth will come in a very short time.<p>God will help us! I am praying for this belief and hope it comes into my heart soon.

Hi everyone,<p>I've had a really rough day and evening. I'm so touched and so moved by all your responses, I can't express what your words of encouragement have meant to me.<p>Life is so brutal sometimes, seems it's been this way for 2+ years, I've felt like I've been constantly swimming to keep up, with very few islands of rest.<p>I know I've made progress in the last 2 years because in the past, news like this would have had potential to land me in the rubber room. <p>I will be on-line tomorrow, I'm taking the day off work to regroup my emotions and thoughts. I'll post my responses then if that's okay.<p>Just thank you ever so much from the bottom of my broken heart.<p>Love to All,
Jo<p>[ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

"Married Poorly"<p>Ahhh Jo, get off that blame train...You married with all the information that was given at the time...and you married a human with all his strengths and weaknesses...happened to me too.<p>You can't judge the "Jo" of yesteryear by the "Jo" you are now...<p>And that needs to be your focus...the life you have now. Wishing and hoping, replaying old scenes in your mind, trying to figure out how and why he can do the things he says and does is a dead end street.<p>Jo, what are you doing for yourself? What are you doing to make yourself happy?
T

Jo<p>I don't have a lot to add, but couldn't not send my best to you. You have been an inspiration to me and many here with your great advice and calm reason when we have faced our own crises...<p>I hope this morning finds you somewhat more calm. But I also can imagine how hurt you must be...<p>The nature of this is selfishness and self-centerd behavior and that's what your x-H and the OW are exhibiting now. <p>You are too good a person to let this get you down...<p>Hang in there and I will continue to pray for your strength.<p>You can get thru this.... <p>Please take care...<p>E

'OTHER WOMAN' WHO WON NOW WISHES SHE HADN'T
DEAR ABBY: I am the other woman you rarely hear from. I had an affair with a married man and married him after he divorced his wife.
Please warn your female readers that even when an affair leads to marriage, it isn't going to be what they expect.<p>My husband and I have been married nearly nine years. We have a beautiful daughter. She is the only good thing that has come out of this mess. My husband is selfish and cares only about his own needs. His ex-wife still won't speak to me (not that I want her to), and their son barely acknowledges my existence. All I feel is guilt over breaking up their marriage and remorse for the mess I made of my life.<p>So, Abby, if any of your readers are dating a married man -- give them this warning: Run for your life now! He may seem sweet and caring, but that is only because he likes the chase. Once he gets you hooked, you will be treated the same way he treats his present wife. If you complain, he will tell you that you "asked for it." After all, you knew he was married. -- SORRY FOR EVERYTHING IN TEXAS<p>DEAR SORRY: Oh, the lessons that people learn too late. I find it interesting that you describe only men as craving the thrill of the chase. Women, too, get caught up in the excitement and melodrama of seducing another woman's husband. As in your case, they usually wind up getting less than they hoped and more than they bargained for.<p>Read on for a letter that arrived the day after yours:<p>DEAR ABBY: This letter is for all the "other" women out there. I dated "Ray," who claimed his marriage was over. Ray did leave his wife, but he was dishonest with her. In fact, I have learned some pretty hard lessons lately.<p>A married man (or woman) who pursues a new relationship before putting closure on the previous one displays several character flaws: disloyalty, immaturity, dishonesty, and an inability to commit.<p>I was Ray's third wife. He left each of us under the same circumstances. When the going got tough, he bailed. Like most people, Ray had a pattern. He would meet a woman, start a relationship, then leave his wife. Yes, I won the grand prize, but what a mistake! I would have been better off if I hadn't. I have no doubt that Ray loved me very much. However, he lacks the skills to maintain a healthy relationship. No relationship can be healthy if it starts in a deceitful manner.<p>If people truly love each other, they should wait until closure is put on the first relationship. It will allow time for healing. One cannot commit fully to a new job until notice is given and the allotted time spent. The same holds true for a relationship. -- RAY'S THIRD WIFE<p>DEAR WIFE THREE: To quote a well-known advice columnist, "Oh, the lessons we learn too late." Yours was a painful one. But please don't place the blame entirely on Ray. After all, he had a co-conspirator -- you.

Jo,<p>Do something for me. Go out today and by the book Secrets of the Vine by Bruce Wilkinson and read it today ( if you don't already have it). Puts some perspective on the pain in our lives and God's intention to work ALL things for good in our lives. You've come soooooo far and grown so much and God will use that for good, in your life and in the lives of others. You've got work to do, don't dwell where you have no power or influence,go make a difference where you are wanted and needed. No more spinning your wheels! The world needs more loving and caring people like you. Don't waste YOU.

Dear Resilient:<p>I'm picking up on your post to Estes,<p>"She claims she can't tolerate sunlight, hence her reason for hanging out in bars."<p>possible reasons:<p>1. She's related to the cockroach, which runs into dark corners when the light is turned on; <p>2. She's a dracula;<p>3. Bar light is more flattering than sunlight, which brings out all the complexion flaws and REALLY shows your age (Rod Stewart's "Maggie May" - "The morning sun, when it's in your face, really shows your age,"<p>(((((((((((((((Jo))))))))))))))))))<p>I can't resist being catty. Actually, I enjoy it!

Can I ask something?<p>Will God honor this second marriage borne of infidelity? Is it blessed?<p>Jo<p>[ February 21, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mthrrhbard:
<strong>Jo,<p>Do something for me. Go out today and by the book Secrets of the Vine by Bruce Wilkinson and read it today ( if you don't already have it). Puts some perspective on the pain in our lives and God's intention to work ALL things for good in our lives. You've come soooooo far and grown so much and God will use that for good, in your life and in the lives of others. You've got work to do, don't dwell where you have no power or influence,go make a difference where you are wanted and needed. No more spinning your wheels! The world needs more loving and caring people like you. Don't waste YOU.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Jo,
Hugz. I am sorry for this painful knowledge but as Mthrrbard said above: "....don't dwell where you have no power or influence,go make a difference where you are wanted and needed"<p>As we discussed earlier, the one who performs such a ceremony is liable for his/her actions as well, if they have been duped, then the sin of those who are doing the misleading will be even greater. Whatever their outcome Jo, please listen to Mthrrbard's wise words. Take Care of Jo. That is the one we care about. We want to see you happy. <p>I have a hunch that there is someone special out there but you may have to be very selective about your future choices. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] This means you clearing your heart of the past heartaches and look forward to your future choices. <p>Another good friend from MB wrote a while back to say that her H made her feel unwanted big time (she is the BS). Yet only within a few weeks, she was getting soo many calls from friends and previous acquaintances even new friends and they were keeping her very busy. She reached out a bit and has been 'overwhelmed'. Well each of us may not receive the same amount as quickly but hey, we won't know until we try right? So spend the right amount of time healing then spend the rest of your life making Jo our loving friend, happy. <p>....oh yea, if you want to include us in any approval process..... let me know. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Hugz,
L.<p>ps: ....had another dream last night. Something about going snorkeling with a police officer (handsome one) in Hawaii and a visit to a dentist office...... you know I just had a feeling this dream was not about me. Too bad because it was a good one! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>[ February 21, 2002: Message edited by: Orchid ]<p>[ February 21, 2002: Message edited by: Orchid ]</p>

To respond to your last question. I think it would depend on a few things. First, your XH shouls be following the rules of whatever official religion he supposedly is practicing. Usually there is some type of annulment procedure in most official Christian religions, and I can't imagine a minister or priest marrying him and OW without going into some background of his first marriage. I can't even imagine him getting married in any church until his first marriage is official dissolved by the church he was married in.<p>Usually in these situations, the people get married by the state and then worry about the religious aspect years later.<p>I can't judge your XH, but I'm sure that God will be looking to see some sort of repentence on his part, otherwise he'll just be continuing to sin and being led further and further away. <p>God loves us, but remember He is a just God and whether we like it or not, we get what is coming to us either in this life or the next. So don't worry, God's got him all under control.<p>K

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by God is in Control:
To respond to your last question. I think it would depend on a few things. First, your XH shouls be following the rules of whatever official religion he supposedly is practicing. Usually there is some type of annulment procedure in most official Christian religions, and I can't imagine a minister or priest marrying him and OW without going into some background of his first marriage. I can't even imagine him getting married in any church until his first marriage is official dissolved by the church he was married in.<p>Usually in these situations, the people get married by the state and then worry about the religious aspect years later.<p>I can't judge your XH, but I'm sure that God will be looking to see some sort of repentence on his part, otherwise he'll just be continuing to sin and being led further and further away. <p>God loves us, but remember He is a just God and whether we like it or not, we get what is coming to us either in this life or the next. So don't worry, God's got him all under control.<hr></blockquote><p>
Hi K, <p>My x-H is not any religion. I am the spiritual one, and when we married it was in a Christian church (non-demoninational).<p>OW is a Christian as well. So I suppose she'll pick a Christian church. Would that mean the preacher who will officiate the ceremony will interview them first? I do know we went to Christian counseling before our minister would marry us.<p>Jo<p>[ February 21, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Hi Orchid,<p>I know, I'm weaning myself as I read the "Secrets of the Vine", as motherhubbard suggested.<p>And O .... I am not going to get involved .... with anyone until .... well, until I am ready. And ready is definitely WAY OFF. But I will seek your approval and blessing when/if that day comes, K?<p>Why is it when you decide not to "eat", a feast lys at your feet. And when you're hungry, famine strikes???<p>Jo<p>[ February 21, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Hi Jo, I don't even know you other than through posts on this board yet I can feel your pain. I've cried over each and every post you have made on this thread. I have no good advice. You seem like such a strong person and it's sad to see you hurting so badly.<p>My opinion on your ex-H and his OW is that they are doomed to fail. It's all been so underhanded and so full of lies.<p>To answer your question about God blessing this marriage I referred to the ultimate source - the Bible. The 6th commandment - Thou shall not commit adultery and they have. The 5th commandment - Thou shall not lie and they have. I know that God is forgiving of sins but in order to be forgiven one must show remorse and I don't think they are remorseful.<p>Please stay strong and know that many thoughts and prayers are out there for you.

I'm so glad mthrr recommended 'Secrets of The Vine." It is truly the first book to help me put things in perspective and to get me to look at what God wanted from me... and that He is in control...<p>You can't worry or wonder if their marriage is blessed. That is His job. You deal w/ Jo and Jo alone.<p>Me too. I can't worry if H will ever 'understand.' My job is me and me alone... to be the best me ever... to put God in control and do His work... <p>When you listen to God and seek His counsel... blessings are poured out to you...<p>Hugs,
Cali

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TinyDancer:
Hi Jo, I don't even know you other than through posts on this board yet I can feel your pain. I've cried over each and every post you have made on this thread. I have no good advice. You seem like such a strong person and it's sad to see you hurting so badly.<p>My opinion on your ex-H and his OW is that they are doomed to fail. It's all been so underhanded and so full of lies.<p>To answer your question about God blessing this marriage I referred to the ultimate source - the Bible. The 6th commandment - Thou shall not commit adultery and they have. The 5th commandment - Thou shall not lie and they have. I know that God is forgiving of sins but in order to be forgiven one must show remorse and I don't think they are remorseful.<p>Please stay strong and know that many thoughts and prayers are out there for you.<hr></blockquote><p>Thank you for that, Tiny Dancer. I needed to be reminded of those commandments. Are the 10 commandments in every type of Bible (e.g., every version (King James, etc.))?<p>I have yet to respond to everyone here for the pouring out of love and support I have received. I know I'm blessed in so many ways. I read each and every one of your posts again this morning, you all are so wonderful for helping me. I wish none of us had to go thru this.<p>I'm pretty sure that my situation will beat all the odds/stats ... I believe that my x-H and OW will last. I believe the OC factor lends a "family" spin to it, which seems to be an important EN for my x-H. It's an unfair outcome for me, but who said marriage is fair. I will post individual responses later this afternoon, I just wanted to say Thank-you again <p>Jo

Gosh Sister Mary Matthew would be so proud of me [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>The 10 Commandmants should be in all bibles. You can find them at at Exodus 20:2-17, Exodus 34:12-26, and Deuteronomy 5:6-21.