I'm new here and I am seeing a lot of posts that bother me. Not the posts themselves but a certain idea. So I am seeking guidance here. I want your opinions please. <p>First I'll tell you the general idea that's bothering me and then I'll tell you why I'm bothered.<p>I see a lot of BS, mostly women, saying that they have made it known that "HE is MINE". That he's taken, and you better not mess with him.<p>What's really bugging me is that no spouse should have to do that. I am a BIG believer in that you cannot control another person's actions, reactions, thoughts... that you can only control your own. AND if a person is going to stray, they are going to stray ~ no matter HOW you mark your territory to OP. It's almost like, "Well I don't trust my spouse to do right so I'm going to "head 'em off at the pass" every person that I see as a potential threat to them.<p>And I'm not understanding. Although I have my insecure moments (and today is one of them) is that really a good idea? Is that a foundation on which a healthy relationship can be built?<p>Because if the OP wants to get her/his nails in H/W, is it really going to matter WHAT the spouse says? I don't think so.<p>This is the way I live today. I don't do things like that. I know that it will not add anything positive to me, my life or my relationship. If anything it may add to my stress level (I may go home thinking about it or replaying the experience).<p>I am going VERY slowly in my relationship. We have been rebuilding and it's going great so far. Slowly, but wonderfully.<p>I know that it gives some people a sense of confidence and maybe even "power" that they were able to say something to a potentional OP but I just don't know if this is the best way to handle it.<p>I personally think that the energy could be used in a more positive way. And that while we are recovering from the betrayal of an affair and it is HARD to trust our WS, does it really do any good to approach OP because to US it seems like a threat?<p>I have done things like that before... you know, marking my man, but did it help? Nope not a bit. And when I have seen others do it in person I think "Wow! He's silly". In my profession I work with mostly men. I have had jobs where I traveled A LOT and sometimes I had to go with co-workers. My boss and I were stuck in a snow storm in Chicago one winter for over 16 hours. We had no idea what was going on... they kept telling us "your flight is delayed, the plane is on the way". Well, the airport was shut down and there were NO planes on the way. He called to give his wife the status of our situation. He said "WE are stuck, etc... blah blah". She says WE!?!?!? Who is WE? And proceeded to sock it to him good.<p>Now, if I was after her man, and if he wanted me, that would not have helped. We would have done it anyway. In the process it upset him, it upset me (I didn't even know the woman, had ABSOLUTELY NO desire whatsoever to even think about this man in that way and I was thinking, what IS her problem?<p>She had two choices here. 1) She could have done what she did. or <p>2) She could have taken what he said for face value, wished him well, said I love you and be on her merry way. <p>The end results would have been different. He was upset with her choice (1). If she had done (2) he would have felt better, felt loved, felt missed. <p>Instead he walked away rolling his eyes ~ and she never knew that. <p>Does this hamper or take away from our spouse's perception when we do this?<p>I just wonder, am I off base here?<p>I am REALLY seeking feedback here. I am not easily offended so say what you will. I am learning just like the rest of us and if I had all the answers I wouldn't be here.<p>I want a successful relationship with my partner.

Hi and Welcome to Marriage Builders!<p>You know, it would be great if we could all just trust our partners to do the right things, wouldn't it?<p>I assume that Lor's post is the one you are referring to, and you probably have no idea what she has been through to save her marriage. Maybe it wouldn't matter to you if you did know.<p>But this is the way I look at it. I have a burgler alarm on my home. Now I know that if a thief is absolutely determined to rob my house, he will find a way. BUT I am going to do everything within my power to keep that from happening. And if I see a woman trespassing in my marriage, I am going to darn well let her KNOW that she is trespassing. Like Lor, I wonder if I had done that before if I would even be here now.<p>I am NOT going to stand around waiting for my formerly betraying husband OR anybody else to do the right thing. I am going to try to make it absolutely clear what the right thing for me is. I am going to adhere to the MB principles, put my faith in God, and do EVERYTHING I can to safeguard my marriage and my family. <p>But that is ME. If you don't agree, don't do it. Feel free to state your disagreement in a respectful manner. That's one of the best things about this site. No one is forced to be here, and no one is forced to heed all the advice. You are free to pick and choose.

Thank you! I know what you are saying. It wasn't Lor's post exactly. I had been thinking this anyway from several posts I have seen on the site. Lor's was the LAST post I saw and I thought since it was already bothering me I should bring it up.<p>Do you think that by ME not taking that approach it's a "stupid" approach for me?<p>That perhaps I am missing something?

One more question, do you think that "fighting" our man is the healthiest thing for someone? I'm not saying I agree or disagree. Just wondering.<p>When I say fighting, I'm referring to this particular behavior.<p>Thanks again.

Oops! I mean fighting FOR our man...

Hi again,<p>I think that YOU should decide what is right for YOU. But don't think that it is the right way for everyone. What Lor did is right for HER, and I would have done something similar because that is right for ME. You see?

Hi again,<p>We were posting at the same time! I think there are different ways of "fighting" for our marriages. One way is by setting some clear boundaries. An affair changes a marriage forever. Some priviledges can no longer be a part of the relationship, because the relationship is in a different, more fragile state.<p>My husband has always been a very friendly "white knight to the rescue" kind of guy. He spent LOTS of time helping friends and neighbors, etc. That is how his affair began, by "helping" a neighbor. Needless to say, that kind of behavior is now out-of-bounds.<p>Also, let me say this. Any woman who is openly flirting with a married man IS a potential danger to your marriage. What does it say to your husband if you DON'T react to it? Too many of us have been told that our husband's "thought we didn't care". Now I let him KNOW that I care if another woman flirts with him OR if he flirts with her.<p>I don't call that "fighting for my man". I call that protecting my marriage.<p>[ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: peppermint ]</p>

Of COURSE I understand! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] I realize that each situation is unique and that no one thing works for everyone.<p>I'm exploring all options... on a day like today, which is a day that I feel insecure, I just wonder if my way is good for me, or if I am being naive?<p>Because... this woman that worked with both of us when we met (a few years ago) KNEW we were dating. He found another job and left exactly one week before I did. During that one week she asked "Did he get a new car?", "Isn't it time for his D's bday?", all sorts of personal things that shows she had some sort of relationship with him. And that REALLY bugged me. To make it worse I found emails between them and it was exactly what I suspected. For the ENTIRE time we dated I was very angry about that. I wanted to confront her so badly. I did! Even after we broke up (broke up for 2 years, now back together) I still felt that way for a while. Eventually I ran into her at lunch one day and I said nothing. I felt it would do nothing for me.<p>Now, there is ANOTHER woman who I hate to admit, bugs me sometimes. Most of the time she doesn't ~ mostly because I know she has her own issues and SHE is the one that has a problem. She wedged her way into our lives, she "suddenly" came to town when we had a fight (she lives 3 hours away), lied to him "I have nowhere to stay" when she really did, and he let her. This was an ongoing thing the entire time we dated. She didn't want him until he was taken. She only dates taken men. There have been times when I REALLY wanted to tell her a few things but then decided against it because I knew it wouldn't help. Or would it have?

Uh-oh! That last paragraph was my EX. Not my current. Sorry about the confusion.

Hi Clear ~<p>I know that my direct intervention at the beginning of a relationship did help in one situation. <p>My husband was doing the white knight thing...listening to this cute little petite blonde telling him all her marriage woes at work. (And I didn't know about MB then, just womanly INSTINCT told me this was headed in a bad direction). My H got mentionitis...and then phone calls started - hangups, lies about who she was when I answered, etc. At this stage of our marriage, my H was truely CLUELESS about what was going on - she'd call me and lie about who she was and what she wanted, then ask my husband to meet her and a "group" of work people - and then he'd get off the phone and tell me!<p>Finally one morning, after a couple of these little incidents...I called her back, and told her in no uncertain terms never to call my husband again. She disappeared never to be heard from again [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Now, of course, we all know, that this isn't usually a deterrant with a determined OW, or with a relationship that's progressed much farther along. And of course we can't control what our spouses do. If my H had been trying to start something with this particular woman, I'm sure nothing I said would have helped.<p>BUT, I also know from reading GloryB that ALOT of those OW rationalize their relationships with statements like : She doesn't care if he has an affair. She knows about us, but doesn't care. Yadda yadda. I don't know many women besides Hilary Clinton who is aware of an affair and willingly turns a blind eye. We are guilty of blind trust and are the victims of lies, but we sure aren't OK with our spouse's EMRs and I think its pretty healthy to send that message to a fogged OW who has come up with all kinds of justifications for what she is going to do to you and your marriage.<p>By intervening, we send a very clear message to the OW that we are aware, and we DO care. We do love our spouses, we know what little games they are playing, and we aren't OK with it. And it sends a message to our spouses that we care about them too.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BrambleRose:
<strong>
By intervening, we send a very clear message to the OW that we are aware, and we DO care. We do love our spouses, we know what little games they are playing, and we aren't OK with it. And it sends a message to our spouses that we care about them too.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Ahhh, I think THAT'S what I needed to hear to understand. That makes a lot of sense.<p>What about those VERY DETERMINED OW? <p>At this point I am confident my partner is faithful and is committed to rebuilding this relationship into a strong, healthy one. I DO have those insecure days. Not often and it's not like I'm sitting around thinking "I wonder who he's with, etc...". It's just a nervous feeling in my stomach. No rhyme or reason to it.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Clearview:
<strong><p>Ahhh, I think THAT'S what I needed to hear to understand. That makes a lot of sense.<p>What about those VERY DETERMINED OW? <p>.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>My STBX's OW was/is very determined, but there is one letter I wrote in reply to an email she sent me, I didn't send it, I wish I had<p>I wish she had seen my presences in his life. <p>I was alway poliet when she called, when she was desperate enough to ask for him. I wish I had told her to never call my home again. <p>but I didn't, I didn't want to give her the satisfaction, would it have run her off, no nothing but death will get rid of her,

Hi,<p>Since I haven't posted to you yet and there are lots of new people around, my brief summary:
[BS, W had internet EA-lasted about a year-or maybe just internet abancnment, she certainly was getting tons of ENs met online,DD-4/01,recovering since 7/01, things are pretty good now]<p>I think the important issue is the acknowledgment by the spouse of "territory". I've always understood that W's heart is hers to give to whom she pleases and I can't really claim it as my territory.<p>When my W started going online I enjoyed watching the chat over her shoulder, then I got bored and left her to it for several months. After I got lonely (jealous? geez, do I understand "mentionitis") due to lack of attention, I decided to go online and try to reclaim her, so-to-speak. People supposedly knew she was married (though it wasn't in her profile). I put clues in my profile and began flirting with her online (she knew who I was). People could have guessed who I was, or she could have told them - she didn't. I got the distinct impression she didn't like me "bothering" her so I stayed away for many more months.<p>After dday I revoiced my concern about her profile not showing her marital status - so she just deleted the whole profile. Later she did replace it with "married". Recently I've noticed that it says "happily married" [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Not too long ago I began revisiting her online rooms. She mentioned to people that her H was sometimes around and they were trying to guess who it was (nope, they weren't guessing me). Later she did introduce me. Now they know who I am (and like me). I believe that it has changed the tenor of *their* interactions with her. She purposely delineated *our* territory in front of others so they won't be confused about the quality of our marriage. <p>I think she also did it to make a statement to me, too. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I suspect that marking territory could have an effect opposite to what is intended - exactly as you mentioned. That's why I avoided doing it directly, even though I wanted to follow her wherever she went and tell people "don't you understand that she's married???"<p>I think that people that come into contact with you should know your relationship status. I think it's the ambiguity that encourages things to proceed. My W would tell people, if they asked, but she seemed to be reluctant to be "obvious" about it. I think that makes a statement.<p>I suspect that many OP's would not approach someone who seemed committed and they are looking for clues of unhappiness, etc... <p>I'm definitely in favor of both of us making "our" territory obvious.<p>Jeffers

Dear Clearview...
jumping right in I have to say that fighting for "your man" (for lack of a better way of putting it)..is also fighting for and standing up for the VALUE of vows, committment and marriage...<p>That society does very little to celebrate the sancitity of marriage but very much to undermine it...to belittle it...needs to be addressed.<p>standing up and claiming a spouse is also standing up and stating that what we have built together has great meaning...and not something to be trifled with...<p>Society, hollywood, and pop-psyche verbage that states that we should be happy and me first at all times and at all stages in our lives...has demeaned marriage vows..and there are lots of people who have bought that...People believe this and are sometimes shocked and bewildered that a betrayed-spouse does not believe this and is does not understand that it just happened.we just happened to fall in love....and that this is the true route to the ws/op happiness<p>they have bought...
children really want only for their parents to be happy no matter what the cost.
that soul-mates are meant to be...no matter what the betrayed-spouse thinks...
that bad behavior is oK cause we will surround ourselves with only like minded people who condone such behavior.<p>Even your post is somewhat belittling of marriage vows...(please note said in the tone of debate only and not attack....)The vows are not seperate to the marriage...ofcourse the OP is a threat to the marriage and should be treated as thus...when I go to weddings (besides eating bad chicken, good cookies and the dirty dancing)..I am witnessing to God...that what these two people are saying to our society is meaningful and to be treasured....I am instructed to let no man put asunder....that is my role in other peoples marriage....I am responsible not to put myself in a position of spending energy and time my spouse deserves...or for interfering with others marriages...<p>I said those vows.. ...I would fight for what they stand for...for what they teach my children...and for what I said to God...and I have no problem telling that to some god-awful-misguided-twit of a tramp [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] just kidding!!!<p>
peace to you and your home
ARK

I called the OW in my personal drama after I found an email from her to my WH telling him that she loved him,etc. She actually lied to me telling me that they rarely spoke and were just acquaintances. Can you believe that? My call slowed things down for a week or two but didn't stop anything. At that point, it was too late. My WH even said, "If you were going to call her, it should have been a long time ago."

Clearview, thanks for raising this issue. I think this is an excellent debate, with good arguments on both sides.<p>I personally have never made any attempt to contact the OM or "mark territory". My feeling is that my W is the one who pledged her lifelong faithfulness to me, not the OM. He's never promised my anything. The problem in my M is that W has sought fulfillment elsewhere. Unless I want to follow her everywhere, she will have opportunities to cheat. She will always encounter men who would be more than willing to meet her emotional needs, with no regard for the hurt it would cause me. If I succeeded in driving away a potential OM (which I think is unlikely), she would just find another. I see no permanent solution other than finding a way to make my W content in the M.<p>That being said, I obviously haven't had success with my approaches. I'm also learning, and reading threads like this one gives me food for thought.<p>BP

Hi Clear,
I think you know that I never confronted the OW and that was the right decision for me.<p>But I think some posters have brought up good points like our spouses thinking we don't care.
And I am well aware that I can't watch my husband 24/7 and have to trust him. But when we are out together I make sure I do things like putting my arm in his or giving him a kiss -- these are things we should be doing anyway! And if he's talking to someone I don't know, I now walk up to them and say "Hi, I'm JJ, Mr.JJ's wife". I don't look at it as "marking terriority" but more like being "proactive". And I think Mr.JJ likes it...
it lets him know I do care and builds his ego. <p>Good topic Clear!<p>Hugs, JJ

Hello* Dear Clear,<p>Mr. Pepper's affair began as a phone call to our home. She is known to both of us. She and her H were at our wedding. So, when she called, and tearfully asked to speak to Mr. Pepper, I gave the phone to him and left the room to give him privacy. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] Later, I asked ,"What did ___ want? She sounded upset." He told me she was having problems with husband "Bob" and needed to talk. I told Mr. Pepper I thought it was not a good idea to let her vent to him about her marriage problems, and that she should talk to her girlfriends. I let it drop. Mr. Pepper took my silence to mean indiference toward HIM. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] And .... the rest is history!<p>Now, recovered, I know a few things. And, so does Mr. Pepper! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] he is an AA sponser, and he knows he will never have a female sponsee ..... and he knows that if a female shows interest in sharing secrets with him .... it is time to "exit stage left". I can stand by his side and slip a loving arm around him, as reassurance to him that I am "there" for him, and also, to indicate to any female with amorous ideas that there is no room for her within this marriage. It's called "putting up fences" around a marriage.<p>I think it's a good idea to keep a watchful eye, not just on the wandering partner ...but also on ourselves.<p>I know you don't have kids Clear, but this is (in a way) like the following situation:<p>A stranger at the park is innocently watching my young child play a little ways away from where I am sitting. If that person approaches my child, I will make it my business to meander to my child and by some action or word convey that I am with this child and I am watching. Sort of like that. Prevention .... even in the absense of clearly evil intentions.<p>Clear, I do think there is a difference in the dating exclusively relationship and the holy bonds of matrimony when it comes to prevention. In the dating situation, such as yours, it is probably not the dater's place to put up that fence around the dating relationship untill there is an engagement ring and a wedding date. Dating is supposed to be your time to figure out what that person is all about, their values, etc .... and that can and should be done by observing what the other person does over a long period of time.<p>Pepper