Well, <p>My H is getting closer to moving out. I think he has found an apt. We have discussed finances. I was really very calm. We have discussed what he can take from the house. Again, I was very calm, and told him to basically take whatever he needs. I have agreed to keep his dog here for now. <p>My question is, as I have every intention of maintaining Plan A, how often do I let him come over. He said he would come over once a week to wash the dog and clean up the yard. His family lives in other countries and he wants to come over and use the phone here occasionaly to call them. (He plans on having his cell phone only, no other phone service)<p>He asked about visitation for our son, I said every other weekend and one night a week. He asked if he could maybe take him for lunch or something on the weekends he does not have him. My initial reaction was no. But I think this was wrong. I do not want to punish our son, who loves his daddy more than anything in the world and is going to be completly crushed by this.<p>But my H is the one choosing to leave this house. I know he is not leaving our son, he is leaving me, but is'nt the limited contact with our boy a consequence (sp?) of his actions. And I do not want to be manipulative in this, I do not want to use our son to get my H to come home. If he does come home it has to be because he wants me, and the whole family package, but he has to want me and be willing to make me his #1 priority and be willing to protect my feelings...<p>Aaagh. I just don't know what to do.<p>Needing

Needing,<p>Normal visitation is 1st, 3rd and 5th weekends from Friday evening until Sunday evening and a few hours Wednesday evening. Pretty much standard from what I can tell.<p>That said, I've been divorced 4 years (daughter was 8 at the time)and I have always encouraged her to spend as much time as possible with her father. She used to spend almost every weekend with him (never Wednesday because he works then)and until the time she started showing out because she is poorly supervised there, she was allowed to go whenever she wanted, school schedule permitting.<p>Don't punish your son or your husband. It's very important for kids to be able to have a good relationship with both parents, even if the parents can't stay together. Your son will admire and respect this attitude.

Another question....on move out day, do I take our son away from the house so he doesn't have to see his daddy leaving...or do we stay here so H can see the pain in his son's face. I just don't know. I do NOT want to hurt our son any more that this will anyway, but I don't want to have to be the only one to deal with our son's pain either. I think H has some real responsibility in facing up to what he is doing to this incredible, happy little kid. <p>Any advise???<p>Needing

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>on move out day, do I take our son away from the house so he doesn't have to see his daddy leaving...or do we stay here so H can see the pain in his son's face. <hr></blockquote><p>Needing, I still feel that overtone of vengeance in your post. You CANNOT make any part of your h leaving about your son. It has nothing to do with him. My advice is to let him stay home, see his dad and explain to him that Daddy is going to live in his own apartment for a while but that he will be visiting often and can call whenever he wants. If you take him away that day, what are you going to tell him when he comes home and dad is gone? The fairies came and got him? No, sorry. I think you need to upfront and totally honest about it. Tell him that Dad is leaving because you are unhappy right now but that you are going to stay friends and try to work things out---of course, allowing for how much your son's age will let him understand.

And needing, it doesn't matter what you do. Your husband is only going to see what he wants to see. Many times people walk around wearing 'blinders' so they don't have to deal with the unpleasantness that their actions result in. But you cannot force him to own up to his actions and their consequences. He has to come to that on his own. And, frankly, we both know that sometimes they never do.

Needing ~ you have to put your son's needs before your desire to force consequences on your H.<p>What do you think is better for your son?<p>In my situation, I allowed my H to see our children at any time. He choose to come by once a week for the most part, but our home was open to him all the time. My kids had their own phone and own ICQ account and email account with which to contact him by - even when I was plan Bing him.<p>I helped my H move out while the kids were at school so they didn't have to be there. And while we talked about what was happening, I always encouraged them to love their dad and talk to him as much as they wanted.<p>Kids ALWAYS come first, even in plan A.

Point taken dd, I think your right. I will let H know that as long as we don't have plans, if he wants to see son it's OK. I know that their relationship is very important.<p>Thanks,
Needing

BrambleRose<p>[you have to put your son's needs before your desire to force consequences on your H.
What do you think is better for your son?]<p>I'm am struggling with this very issue, could you maybe go over to the Preg/Child board and see my post, I think you may be able to help. TIA.<p>Bridgette

OMG, this is all just to hard. I don't want any of this to happen. That's why I am having such a hard time. I want desperatly to protect my son. This is going to confuse him no matter what. He is only 4.<p>dd, I get what your saying about how to explain that daddy was just taken away by the fairies, and BR I get your point about him not having to see it. I just don't know what is going to be best for him. <p>And maybe there is a tone of, well, I don't want to call it vengeance, but yes anger that my H is making us deal with this. This should not be happening and I can take whatever he dishes out. I'm an adult and I understand and can "not take it personally". But our son is only 4, I don't know how to expain it to him. And I am a little angry that I will be the one to deal with our son's questions and tears. This is not my doing and I have to handle the consequences as far as S goes. What do I say when he asks when is daddy coming home so we can play fire ball (their specail made up game) <p>I can take my pain and deal with it. I can't deal nearly as well with seeing my son in pain. His little face crumples up into tears and all I want in the world is to fix it for him.

I agree that you should allow S and H as much time together as possible. Don't let your S suffer any more than he has to because of this. Its hard to separate the two issues, but you really need to keep the your relationship with H separated from S and H's relationship.<p>I am in a similar situation as you are, except that W forced me out of the house with a restraining order. We also have a separation agreement that is very specific when I have visitation. Fortunatly, W and I have been able to keep our personal differences apart from our relationship with our kids and I can take them whenever I want. I just have to be careful not to allow W to use me as a convenient babysitter.<p>I also come over to the house a lot, not to do laundry or anything, but to visit with W and the kids. Personally, I would allow your H to come over to visit, but don't let him do laundry and other personal stuff at the house. He moved out, he should be taking care of that stuff elsewhere.
Just my two-bits worth.

Needing, I know just how you feel. It wasn't my sorry xh who had to deal with daughter's tears when she found out he had betrayed her trust on a certain issue. He just moved blithely on with his life. <p>I would tell my 4 yr old that daddy is moving...I doubt he is ready for the why. Try to make it sound like a big adventure to him. Tell him he can go 'camp' at Dad's next week and get him excited about what to pack, etc. I know it breaks your heart but sometimes you gotta be tough. When he asks if Dad's coming back, tell him the truth. Not right now. <p>I'm sorry for your hurt (and mine and everybody else's on this board)but you have to hold it together for the son.. you can cry afterwhile.

lhs,<p>I am glad your W is now letting you come over to see the kids when you and they want. I really do think it's important. It's just a hard pill for me to swallow right now. I love my H and want our family to be whole. For me, for my son and for my H. Sometimes the hurt of it all just gets to be to much and I want to push him away.<p>dd,<p>Good Advise, thanks. I know we are all in such pain and at different stages of grief or hope. It always amazes me how many are willing to reach out through their own pain and offer a (cyber) shoulder to cry on. <p>I know that I want to stay in Plan A. I know it will be easier to show my H the consistency of the changes I am making if he comes around, even if his reason is to see our S.<p>I will do my best to be open and kind. I do not know if I can be supportive since I hate this decision. My H does know that I love him, but he also knows that I hate his actions. I have told him before and I will tell him again, I love you, but I do not like what you are doing. You are a good person who has made some bad choices. Haven't we all!!! Oh, and I only say this when he says something like "I just know you hate me" or "If you don't hate me know you will soon, how can you not".<p>He is really such a good caring and loving man. I just wish I could get through to him. <p>Thanks all for the advise and support. <p>Needing

needing,<p>hope you don't mind me popping in here, it's just that I have been through this. I have three kids, older than yours.<p>please don't let your son see your husband move his stuff out. do prepare him that things will be missing. <p>i hate it when the person leaving says they're not leaving the kids, only you...i'll tell you, it's been almost two years for me and my kids have never bought that one...they have been left and they darn well know it, but maybe your son is young enough to not feel this way.<p>just answer his questions on his level. don't let him see you get real upset. expect him to act up at school. explain things to his teachers before the fact so they'll be prepared. he may revert to "baby" behaviour...if so, let him, it'll pass. pray with him. don't bad mouth dad. (i did this and regret it a lot). let him see dad on regular visitation schedule, it will be good for you son to have some control of this, plus it will show your husband how it will feel if you do divorce. <p>i'll stop now, just be prepared, it's tough and you'll feel like you can't go on another day. you will feel like the whole world is on your shoulders, but also you will be so proud of yourself for doing it...for being the strong, wonderful mom that you need to be. you are the lucky one here, the one that gets to eat dinner with your son almost every night, tuck him in, see him all sleepy in the mornings. you can do it

AZ Allison,<p>Of course I don't mind you popping in. Thank You. Your response actually made me cry. I know that I am the lucky one. And when I really think about it, oh, it's just so hard. I do feel like my H is abondoning both of us, I really do, in my heart. In my head I keep telling myself that he is just leaving me. And, I know my H does not see it this way and I know that there is no worth in arguing it with him. And I never want my S to feel his dad left him.<p>I have already thought about talking to his teacher, it's just such a hard thing for me to admit to people. We have him in a very nice private school here and it seems like all of his classmates parents are together. I know it's unusual, but we always see both of the parents at school functions and b-day parties. (Of course my H and I attend those things together as well, so it really doesn't say much)<p>I wiull take everything you said to heart. BTW, are you in Arizona, I'm guessing by your name. I'm in Phoenix.<p>Thanks,
Needing

hi again needing,<p>you sound like such a good mother. i know it's hard knowing what is right. believe it or not the area i live in seems to have a really low divorce rate too, i can't think of any of my sons friends parents that are divorced (he's 14) and just a few of my daughters (she's 15)<p>i do live in Phoenix...Peoria actually, but i work downtown, at the capitol<p>it does'nt get much harder than where you are at right now. i am (and i hope this does'nt make you more scared) divorced now and while it is hard, it's better than not knowing...know what i mean?<p>i don't have a tag line but i'll do one for now.<p>BS
3 teens: 19, 15, 14
d-day 5-2000
h moved out 6-2000
divorced 2-2002<p>i just wish we could help the kids through all of this somehow...still looking for ways to heal them

Hi az allison,<p>Gee, we are actually pretty close, I'm in Deer Valley, almost Glendale, but not quite. Originally from Seattle, so my guys are in your town right now for Spring Training. <p>Thanks again for the thoughts. I'm hanging in there, he's not gone yet and I am praying for a miracle. It's weird how we can get along so well, until he brings up our relationship. He is the one who always brings it up. I try to stay calm, but he is very bitter right now. The other time we don't get along is if I try to get close to him, physically, emotionally...whatever, he freaks out and says its "too late".<p>So, I still pray for a miracle. I love him and I know somewhere in there he still loves me.<p>Take Care,<p>Needing