My wife's intentions are clear - she wants out. But she's unable to go until we sell up and split the proceeds( and the family ). From my view it would be really neat if she changed her mind before that damage was done.<p>While she's still in the house she's not getting full access to OM and cannot begin to miss me. So here's the conflict - is it realistic to win her back while she's still under our roof or am I sabotaging the overall plan by not forcing her to see the full pain of her plan?<p>Any thoughts?

Paul,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>is it realistic to win her back while she's still under our roof <hr></blockquote><p>ABSOLUTELY IT IS. While your W is under the same roof as you, you have every chance to Plan A your heart out and your W has every chance to see the changes that you are making in you. She won't believe them, she won't even appreciate them now but she will see them.<p>As far as the affair is concerned, you can't control her actions. You have to let that take it's natural course. But at some time the OM will start to LB, the affair will start to loose its intensity and that's when you need to be there.<p>So, I wouldn't sell a damn thing. Let her make all the noises, don't give up anything and make it as damn difficult for the OM as you can. Work out what his weaknesses are and then develop a strategy to help him LB every time you can.<p>I use the name Freddy here at MB because when I was a boy the neighbors dog used to run into our garden for his morning crap. It drove my dad wild. So, last year, during my Ws A, I used every chance to crap on the OMs patch as I could. The dogs name was Freddy and it always put me in the right frame of mind.
<p>- Freddy

Thanks Freddy - that's very interesting.<p>Can you give me a few examples? I annoy OM by talking to his wife( I've even spoken to his mother and SIL ) but I've been advised to cut out the snooping and interference. I think I've found out all I need to know now anyway. But I like the idea of annoying him anonymously.

Paul - I agree with Freddy and I grin everytime I here the story behind his name - I remember it from his first telling.<p>But, I caution you about messing around with OM's world, even anonymously. I imagine there might be some things you can and should do to disrupt paradise - like informing his W - but please be wary of doing ANYTHING that could be construed as harrassment. It'll feel satisfying, but will likely just make things worse.<p>I believe we BSs should look for delayed gratification if we have a primal need to see OPs suffer. It will come to them and is likely already in progress. We don't need to help it along.<p>Time is on your side. Plan A your butt off, but don't assist in the disolution of your family and property. You cannot pull her back, but you can suck her back. Understand the difference?<p>WAT

From my perspective...an EX-WAW...I think your absolute best plan would be to put into action the changes you know need to take place for the marriage to exist. My H would talk talk talk about it all, but DID nothing. Had I seen him DOING things differently and not just talking about what he WOULD do...I think I might not have walked out so quickly. She has to be impressed by the new you, and she has to believe you will continue to be that way if she stays. I didn't trust my H's promises of change, and I certainly didn't trust they would last. We're 3 months into our reconcilliation and so far so good!<p>I walked away because my H didn't listen to one damn thing I said about the things that were hurting me...and he had the total "she'll get over it" attitude. I did get over it, and I didn't need him when I did. Then it made me all the MORE angry that now all of a sudden he'll make the changes...NOW he'll listen. Well SCREW HIM was my attitude. It took a total change in BOTH of our attitudes...it took space and time to see what we really brought to each others lives...it took almost losing the most important thing to both of us...our family. It took a lot of time and work and heartache. But, it's definatly worth it!<p>Good luck to you!

Thanks Hope,<p>If you were looking for change in your H did you let him know or just let him believe you were on your way whatever. My wife is not me giving any signs that she interested in me at all, unless I'm missing them. What signs did you give?<p>And Freddy, can you respond to above?<p>thanks everybody.

bump

In that aspect I guess our situation was very different. I was very verbal about the things that I liked from the start...and whenever we fought or I was upset...I always let him know why. Before I left I wrote him 3 long letters...and we talked about it each time. He even knew I had feelings for the OM. He just wouldn't get mad or motivated to do anything. Because he wouldn't "fight" or stand up and be bold and a "man" by the standards that society has set I felt like either he was just a big wimp or he really just didn't care about me enough to do anything. That wasn't the case though. He just didn't have the "training" in game playing that I did. It took me the space of being on my own to really appreciate what he actually brought to my life, and it took looking around a little at other relationships and potential relationships for me to see what qualities he possessed that might be difficult to find in another person. I think many walkaway wives like things about their partner, but hope to find someone else who has those qualities and X amount more...and someone who will appreciate them for what they have to offer. I know I didn't feel appreciated at all....but then I also know that my expectations had grown a bit unrealistic, also. We can't expect our partner to follow us around in complete idolation for goodness sake.<p>If your wife isn't interested in you at all it could mean many things. One, like you said, you could be missing the signs...it's very difficult to "read between the lines" effectively when you are in an emotional state. I often expected my H to GET A CLUE from things I'd done or said...but it doesn't work that way. Two, it could mean that she's simply done. Or Three, it could mean that she's so afraid of getting hurt again and getting false hope that she's built up a nice big wall to protect herself. If that's the case then even she won't realize it.<p>Not sure if that helps at all. If you have any more questions feel free to ask. Good luck!

Paul, even though this might be construed as beign inmaturish (and it probably is). One thing that comes to mind as far as crapping on the OM's life is that if he is married, start sending his W flowers and love notes signed 'secret admirer'. He'll probably **** on his pants that some other guy is trying to 'steal' his woman. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>One thing I learned about cheaters, male and female, is that even though they are very good at dishing it, they are not very good at taking it. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Joe

Thanks Hope,<p>you're really helping me. My W is in a stinking mood with me at the moment, door slamming, snatching, impolite etc. all in front of the children. Am I being foolish to think this is a positive sign. If we're really through surely she would just be as pleasant as possible until the separation. I wish she was as straightforward as you seem to be but she always has communicated in sulks and tantrums when she was upset about something. Any thoughts from a woman's perspective?<p>Joe,
I like your idea. He already knows that I talk to his wife and I know he behaves badly with her like my wife is with me. I think you read it correctly - he can give pain but can't take it.

First off, on Joe's idea. I love it from the perspective of what it would do to the WH....but consider what it might do to his already vulnerable wife. Just be careful is all I'm saying. And yes, you are right...we can't dish it out like we take it. I was green with jealousy when I found out my H was dating, and actually I found him in a chat room after we seperated (and before we decided to try ONE MORE ONE MORE time) and I was REALLLLLY upset. I dished it out plenty...but no, I couldn't take it. BUT...to me that just proved that the love wasn't truly gone, just that there was too much bullheaded resentment and anger in the way to see it.<p>and YES it is a good sign that she's acting badly...she's under stress and evidently harboring feelings yet! Unfortunatly those come out in ugly ways when you're trying to get out. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to give out websites here, but if you go to www.divorceasfriends.com he has some valuable information there. One of the things he says is that if the feelings are truly dead then there would be no anger and resentment. Most of his information is available on the website...but I purchased his cd's to listen to since I'm in front of the computer too much already (I'm a computer tech). Anyway, I've got to head out to work. Good luck!!