OK---<p>More than year past d-day and in our second separation....first one lasted five months, current one is nearly two months old, following a five month false recovery that really went nowhere.<p>My W (WS) still says she doesn't know how to get her feelings back...no passion...no commitment...no interest in working on the M right now. <p>I am quite sure there is no contact w/OM, but she just can't get back to a place that we can work on this marriage and move forward...she is trying to focus on her (that's what she says)<p>So my question is simple....<p>Given all that why shouldn't I find someone who will meet my ENs?<p>WW can't be the only fish in the sea, right?<p>I could use some companionship, affection and yes, dammit, SF....<p>So why not??? <p>After all, that's what she did to me when she claims her ENs weren't being met....<p>I am fairly intelligent, half-way OK to look at it, in good shape physically, have a good sense of humor and I am sure could be attractive to the right person. <p>So, why not????<p>Sometimes this just makes me so damn, mad....<p>Sorry for the vent....<p>E

Did you read the Dear Abby letters on Resilient's thread? (Page 6) End one relationship before moving on to another... it's to protect you, your wife, and the potential OP from a lot of pain. <p>I KNOW how you feel. My D is pending... just waiting on the judge's signature... but I'm technically still married, and emotionally not ready for another relationship. H has been gone for 9 months. You bet my EN's are starving!!! <p>Stay busy. Exercise. Hang out with same-sex friends.<p>THere may come a time for a new, fulfilling relationship. It'll wait... finish this chapter first - one way or another... K? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

One very simple reason Elad - you are married and married people don't date others. Unless that is, you want to cross the great divide and become a WS

Elad... if you have to ask the question... you already know the answer.<p>Lots of platonic hugs to you.<p>... I wonder though... if you are ready to end relationship w/ wife 'cause it's time for you to move on... what would she do?<p>Cali

Elad,
I know how you feel, been there, served the D papers, found an OM...and then, 2 years after H's PA began, our 7th separation...H wanted the marriage. And, despite feeling like it had been time for me to try to move on, I also feel dishonorable, because I didn't wait for the divorce to be final.<p>If you still have love and any hope for your marriage, dating is very counter-productive to your goals...and wrong.<p>If you want out of the marriage, get out of the marriage, then date. You won't suffer loss of integrity & honor to go along with all the BS issues.

Thanks guys...<p>I am not really thinking of dating...but this has me so frustrated I just needed to vent.<p>I am married...I don't plan to break those vows...<p>It really is just one more BS crying out about their needs not being met... <p>In my case pretty much all my ENs being ignored for way more than a year...<p>I know we are all there or have been there...but every once in a while you just need to let it out...ya know? Of course you do....<p>Better to let it out here than looking to try to start a relationship that can only go bad for one reason or another...and end up having yet one more person hurt due to all of this...<p>Thanks again...<p>E

Anytime E!!! You're only voicing the cries of MANY of us, that perhaps don't have the guts to do it! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Thanks!

Hi Elad im right with you on all you are saying,
its 20 months since D Day, and i long to be loved and hugged and made love to.
And have someone make me feel worthwhile and look at me with love in his eyes, sigh.
Its soooo hard to live this life, but while there is any love in my heart for my H i have to put up with this cold existance.
Maybe soon we will get what we pray for lets hope so.
Take care.
liz

Hi E, I am with you... we all deserve love.. let GOD and JESUS be there for you now... have you ever listened to christian contemporary music!? Boy is it uplifitng... I have been listening to alot of it... and it talks about leaning on the lord., coming to him with your pains, troubles... he will lvoe you and be there for you in all times. and he never goes away ... grow your spiritual relationship with GOd right now... it can do wonders for you.<p>I even learned a new method of prayer at my church, episcopal... it is where you talk to God in your prayer, and actually hear him talking back... it is kinds of meditative... we sat and relazed and took deep breaths... and then imagined ourselves walking down a beach path out to the beach wshere there was a fire buring... and imagined ourselves sitting across the fire... from JESUS... it was quit an exercise... I reallyl imagined my conversation... and I really went to GOd with my pain and hurt and told him of it... he told me he would take care of me... <p>A minute ago I could not remember the name of this type of prayer, but now I do...it is called contemplative prayer... I know thisis not the same as a love relationship between H and wife... but it is quite a good thing for all of us and can bring great peace to grow our relationship with the Lord.<p>Prayers to you, I hope this is something YOu might try...if you are not religious I hope I have not offended...I did not even hardly ever go to church for years... and I have returned with this pain in my life..it is a source of great new friends, fun and a family at church that is there to be kind and extend an open hand to me and my children..it has been a joy..<p>I hope that might be helpful to you.<p>HONEY

sounds a lot like our situation was. My H spoke up many times about how he also had needs, but I was so angry and resentful I would tell him that it was his turn to go without...now he could see how I felt for so long. Of course, it was waaaay different. When my needs weren't being met it was mainly because I didnt' know how they needed to be met. Anyway, it did take us quite a while...but we finally got there. I hope something changes for you soon. Take care.

Hi ELad,<p>I hear ya over here LOUD and CLEAR! <p>Think of it this way, you could if you wanted to, but you won't because you chose not to ... because it's wrong. <p>ELad, I think you should try the 180 Divorce Busting stuff on your W. Do things the opposite of what she's use to, but at the same time ... NO LBs.<p>Here's some ideas for the new 180 ELad:<p>

• Buy a new cologne
• Dress different
• Be gone for an entire day (with friends) doing something you love to do ....
• Try some new restaurants and make sure you tell your W about the new foods you're enjoying
• Have plans when she is sure you'll be available
• Don't P/U the phone when she calls
• Go on outtings to cool places and conveniently leave the brochures/flyers in your car when she rides in it

<p>Whatcha think???<p>Jo<p>[ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

I get feeling like that too. for me, it's been almost 3 years!!!Geeeeeeeze thats a long time. Add to that a few more inwithdrawal & my EN's are READY to be filled.<p>But I have a choice. I choose to do the right thing in my mind. I say an attorney friend of mine today & He wanted to know who I was doing it with since WH was doing it with (2 OW). That's just like an attorney.<p>Somehow, that no matter what happens, I will reap the rewards if I hold fast.<p>I had a friend with an alcoholic husband who decied to have an exit affair. I see the pain she is going through. Her OM did leave his wife & kids & they are dating now. In my opinion she didn't solve her real issues, and that if she doesn't work on them, that they will follow her into her next relationship. So, even though i am in tremendous pain, I still chose this road<p>Stay strong!!!

E let's suppose that you decide enough is enough and search for a woman to fulfill your EN's while still married. Chances are that the same thing that happened to your W will happen to you and then you'll have two people 'in the fog' and the marriage would be on life-support. How can the M be saved now that both spouses are gone? It's practically impossible.<p>Let's continue with this little scenario.<p>OK let's say that after you now become a WS yourself, you tell your W, who is now in the withdrawl period trying to do the right thing for you, her, and your M, that now YOU are in love with an OW. How do you think she'll take the news? In all likelihood she'll be devastated and if you have any human empathy left, you will feel terrible yourself for causing this pain to her.<p>Betraying your W, even though she betrayed you first, will take away from you any moral certainty that you will not do the same thing in another future M.<p>EMA's are all based on lies and deceit (WS's also lie and deceive themselves in an A), do you want to start going down a road where the truth will be a thing of the past?<p>One last thing.<p>Even if you divorce, it will be awhile before any woman can fulfill your EN's. First you have to find one, and then you have to start courting her to show her you are a great potential husband. If you decide to start telling the truth to her about your former M, what will her impression of you be once you tell her that you also betrayed your FW by cheating on her? I'm affraid not a very good one. She'll be asking herself if you won't do the same thing to her if she married you, especially if there is a period where she may find herself unable to meet some of your EN's (i.e. pregnancy, before and after, or sickness). She may conclude that you can not be trusted and thus decide to end the relationship. A great potential W is no more.<p>See why it doesn't pay to be a WS?<p>Joe

You ROCK, JaJ!

Elad,<p>I'm going through this very same thing right now. As we speak.<p>The other day, whilst reading in my favourite coffee shop, an extremely (and I do mean *extremely*) attractive guy sat down next to me and struck up a conversation. We ended up chatting for 4 hours! My EN for conversation was being met and then some. The coffee shop finally closed and I gathered my things to go home. He asked me if I wanted to then join him down at a pub to meet up with some of his co-workers for a charity event. <p>I said yes and went. Weird, but fun. I let him know, very early on in the conversation that I was married and then let it slip that we were separated. We had a great time and I met a lot of new people, which was great. At the end of the evening, I could have very easily taken this guy home with me. I CHOSE not to. Bottom line is, I'm married and my heart belongs to my H. Doesn't matter how lovely, gorgeous, funny and exciting this guy was/is. I am married and dedicated to my H. <p>Temptation was there, and I survived it. At the very least, I've made a new friend and if he wants to take things further, then I will have "the discussion" with him and let him know exactly where I stand. I know that I can determine where this friendship goes. <p>But I'll tell you what, I haven't felt so attractive and wanted in a very long time. It's all about keeping my feet in on the ground, though. I know where my heart and soul is and it isn't with the first drop-dead gorgeous guy who pays attention to me. <p>'Nuff said, really!<p>love,
VE

Venus--don't fool yourself you can direct a friendship with this guy. You already wrote a "fog" statement ie "I let it slip we were separated". This is not a slip, it is a deliberate invitation. I'm sure back in 1/00 I wrote a post almost exactly like yours about my new friend and my ability to draw the line. It is great when someone meets those unmet needs, but after being devastated by a WS, anybody can seem nice. And some people actually ARE very nice.<p>You don't realize how vulnerable you are...until you've gone too far.<p>Married people shouldn't date, married women shouldn't meet strange men in a pub, no matter how hunky.

Elad and Venusenvy,<p>
I can surely understand where the both of you are coming from. You’ve gotten good input from others here so I will try to only add to what they said, not repeat.<p>It’s been discussed here many times and is pertinent to this thread: Most BS’s end of having secondary/revenge affairs. Do you really want to be a statistic?<p>One of the most important reasons for not getting involved in a relationships until some time (at least a year) after you are divorced is that it will, more then likely be a transitional relationship. This type of relationship serves to help a person overcome the hurt of a previous relationship. But once you are doing better, the new person will not longer fit with you. Your needs will be different. So, by definition a transitional relationship is using another person to help you heal. Do you really want to use another person? <p>Take a look at by signature block. STL’s (my h) affairs where all transitional affairs. He was involved with women who helped him over the hump from his previous marriage. In reality I was just one more of those transitional relationships. I always say that he had affairs with 10 women. Well guess what, I was number 11. How do you think that makes me feel? The only difference is that he married me and not the others. But even after we were engaged and married he continued his relationships with the others. It was a form of self-medication for him. SNL, Just Learning and I had and interesting (IMHO) exchange in the middle of Kim101’s thread this week about this. <p>In the end, I was not the only one hurt by his behavior. The OW’en were. And he was too. This behavior may have helped STL get over his ex-w. But now he is dealing the shame and self recrimination of having hurt everyone around him.<p>Venusenvy, if my H ever did what you did I would leave him, period. At this point, after all that has gone on in our marriage that would be it. Actually, after all I’ve been through in my marriages.. all of the infidelity. I’d leave any man who met a woman at a coffee shop, talked to her for 4 hours, and then went to a pub with her. Why? Because STL now knows that it is unacceptable behavior and if I’m ever involved with another man he will know it too. (He’d have to do a few MB weekends and seminars with me before I ever married another man.)<p>Yes I know that your H is having an affair and treating you badly. But he would either feel that you were on the slippery path to cheating on him, or he would use it to justify his further bad behavior. I know it made you feel good, desirable, etc. That’s exactly the point of affairs. Be very careful with yourself and your heart. You are very vulnerable right now. If this man is worth having a relationship with, then he will not have one with a married woman even if she is separated. If he is willing to be involved with a married woman, is this really the type of man you want?<p>Those good feelings are a fix, nothing more.

Thanks again all...<p>I think this post touched a nerve for many....those of us who have had our needs ignored for a long time and need to have our self-esteem boosted....and those who see the dangers and pitfalls of allowing that to happen in the situation we find ourselves in.<p>I am not seriously thinking of getting involved with another woman for a lot of reasons.<p>1. I am still married
2. I still love my wife
3. I still want to do everything I can to move our relationship forward together. Another relationship would end that prospect
4. It would not be fair to any other woman to get in a relationship with me in the emotional state I am in now.<p>But for all of us love-starved BSs, it sure would be nice to know that someone found us appealing and attractive.<p>VE---I think that's what happend to you...but listen to zorweb...she makes a lot of sense...and she is right.<p>Jo---I am aware of the 180s MWD describes and some of that is taking place....but the honest to goodness truth is that I am not sure the 180s have much of an effect when there is so little interest from the WS....and that's where I am right now. To the point that we see each other for dinner once a week...spending about an hour or two together and that's it. Perhaps that has gotten me to the state I was in to begin this thread.<p>Thank you all for your responses...I didn't think my vent would spawn so much interest but like I said...I think it hit a nerve... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I will continue to do what I have been doing...and even though there are no needs being met I will still try my damndest to get this to work...<p>The funny (OK not funny ha-ha, but funny peculiar) thing is that my W still tells me I am a wonderful man and that she still loves me...<p>I guess that can't be all bad, right?<p>I guess I will strive to be wonderfuller! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thanks again...<p>E

Elad, apologies if I seemed to have taken over your thread. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] It wasn't my intention but I'm glad I posted what I did, as the new perspective on all this is great!<p>Lor and Zorweb, you are both absolutely right. And I thank you for your honesty. <p>I was out at the same coffee shop today with a dear friend of mine, when the "hunk" came in. The three of us chatted and he asked for my phone number. I said no. <p>Went out tonight with my dear friend and guess who shows up? You guessed it. Hunk. He asked if I wanted to dance (no). Asked if I wanted a drink (no). Then flat out said, "I really like you. You're beautiful and I think we connect. Would you like to come home with me?" I kid you not, those were his exact words. <p>Amazing how, when faced with the reality of the situation, my heart and head worked together to give him an honest answer and one that I'm totally comfortable with. NO. I told him I was a married woman, dedicated to my marriage and very much in love with my husband. And then I left.<p>So now I'm home. Alone. And despite the fact that my husband isn't here and is in the arms of his OW, I know I did the best thing for me. And I will continue to do the best thing for me. My heart, head and soul belong to my M.<p>Funny that I logged on when I got home and found the posts from you all! THANK YOU! <p>I did the right thing and I did what felt right, for me and my M. 'Nuff said, really.<p>love,
VE

venusenvy <p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Nuff said...