Even though I beleive that a revenge affair (or any EMA for that matter) is wrong for many reasons, I wonder if there are any WS that got paid back by the BS getting involved in a revenge A.<p>Are there any BS's that eventually became WS's themselves?<p>How did you react when you found out that your 'faithful' spouse did the unthinkable?<p>Joe<p>[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: justanotherjoe ]</p>

And did your S feel remorse for doing it?<p>Joe

I've never done that. But was told by my counselor that most (50-80%) of all BS's become WS at some point. If you check out gloryB there are tons of them there who have been down that road.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by zorweb:
<strong>I've never done that. But was told by my counselor that most (50-80%) of all BS's become WS at some point. If you check out gloryB there are tons of them there who have been down that road.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>You know something zorweb? if that statistic is really true, then I wonder why there aren't more of them on this forum relating their experiences considering that this forum is a much more WS friendly environment than infidelity.com.<p>Joe

There's more of us than you think, Joe.<p>It's just that over the years, people come and go, and at different times they'll be an influx of BS's, then WS's... and after I got here there were quite a few (maybe 10 or so) that were both WS and BS.<p>In my case, I was a BS several times over, and 13 years later became a WS, and (then)H turned around and cheated more, which made me a BS again. <p>I know, confusing.

Joe,<p>There are probably lots of BS that become WS that post here & elsewhere who are just afrsid to admit that they've made the transition from BS to BS/WS.<p>I have more to say (having been through this recently) but not enough time now.<p>Wrong2

Many of the people here have been both. Some are more ready to talk about it then others. <p>I know that my H “SeenTheLight” was a BS in his previous two marriages and the WS in ours. <p>Then there is BINthereDUNthat (Member # 10312 ). She is a wonderful resource for they types of questions you are asking. <p>Let’s see if we can get more for you to talk to.

Thank you new_beginning,wrong2 and zorweb for your replies.<p>It probably is a very painful subject for those that are BS/WS because they have experienced the worst of both sides.<p>I do not mean to be morbidly curious by having those folks rehash those painful times. <p>What I'm looking for is whether the original WS got a reality kick in the head that made them appreciate the suffering they had caused their BS's when they became the BS.<p>I have found out that many WS's don't beleive that their BS's could do the same thing they did, especially to them. How often times have you heard a WS say 'my H/W would never cheat on me'?<p>Joe

Joe,<p>I know that my H thinks that I will never cheat on him. He is right, at least I hope he is. Never say never, because that causes a certainty. <p>There is some interesting input to from is side though. His second wife left him for her OM (he was not the only one, but that affair stuck). She is still with the OM. So STL divorced her, met me and we got married. She acts toward me like I’m now the OW. She gives him a hard time about how could he have moved on so quickly after she left. She is furious that we are married. Even though she is still living with OM, she has been trying to get my H to meet her when he travels. When he has visited our town to visit their children, she tries to get him to leave me at home and go out with her. She feels that I stole her H away from her.<p>Tell my H all the time that her relationship with OM is just a convenience, that she is leaving him as soon as she gets chance (like when my H becomes her sugar daddy again maybe?)<p>By the way, she has no clue of his affairs in our marriage. To this day I believe those were really revenge affairs against her. I just got caught in the middle.<p>Does she realize the hurt she caused him? Is she remorseful of what she did? No way. It was all his fault that she had those affairs.. he was so mean, working his butt off supporting her so she could be a stay at home mom/wife. Yes I know that he was not perfect, none of us are. But theirs was a typical marriage that needed some fine-tuning after too many years of job and kid focus. Nothing that two people could not have worked out with some counseling help. <p>She is just angry at him for having the nerve to move on.<p>On the other hand, he has been very torn up for what he did to our marriage and me. It eats at him.

Joe,<p>I was the BS then became WS less than 9 mos later. But the fact that I was BS really had no bearing on my later actions. And the funny thing is until I came to MB (and for a long time after that) I didn't even realize that my husband had had an affair-even though I knew all about it! I just didn't see it as an affair because they had no sexual relationship. Of course, now I realize it was an emotional affair, even though he refuses to acknowledge it as such. But as I have said before, anytime you plan with someone to leave your family and start a new life together, sex or not, that is an AFFAIR>!<p>I became WS after several months of dh being extremely depressed and withdrawn after a car accident. He didn't want anything to do with me and unfortunately, a friend of ours did. I was just plain stupid, dumb and wrong. Fortunately for me, I never had any grand delusions about being 'in love' and never wanted to mess up my marriage. <p>If one thing had anything to do with the other, it would have to be on a very primal, subconscious level. I really think we (h and I) were two very unhappy people that wanted to fix it but went the completely wrong way about it.

I have to admit that I had a "fling" the first time my husband and I separated 6 years ago due to his cheating. He moved back in the day after he found out. I think it did give him some perspective, but it didn't keep him from cheating on me again (and again). I wouldn't do it again.

Wow, good question Joe. Here is something, I don't know if other BS have had their WS bring this up but... My wife says she is dealing with alot of guilt, shame, remorse. She has more than once said that she just wishes I would go out and "find someone" to "even things out" and relieve some of the guilt. I won't take her up on it and I don't think she would feel the same feelings that we BS's would feel because it would almost be expected. Our feelings have a lot to do with the trust and then intense betrayal that we feel. The only thing that I could do that would make her understand the scope of what I feel is take custody of her children.(Which I had aluded to the night of Discovery) Well that threat just about destroyed her. So I honestly don't think becoming a WS would accomplish anything.

Zorweb,diddallas and Dedex1:<p>Thank you for your replies and insight and I apologize for any painful memories that may have been brought forth.<p>Dskef:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
Wow, good question Joe. Here is something, I don't know if other BS have had their WS bring this up but... My wife says she is dealing with alot of guilt, shame, remorse. She has more than once said that she just wishes I would go out and "find someone" to "even things out" and relieve some of the guilt. I won't take her up on it and I don't think she would feel the same feelings that we BS's would feel because it would almost be expected. Our feelings have a lot to do with the trust and then intense betrayal that we feel. The only thing that I could do that would make her understand the scope of what I feel is take custody of her children.(Which I had aluded to the night of Discovery) Well that threat just about destroyed her. So I honestly don't think becoming a WS would accomplish anything. <hr></blockquote><p>Your situation is very interesting.<p>Prior to her A was your W the kind of person that looked down upon those that committed infidelity? Did her personality have an arrogant streak to it? Did she often state 'I would never be unfaithful'?I ask this because when prideful people take the fall and eat a big piece of humble pie, they tend to go the other extreme. I just wonder if this was the case with your W.<p>I guess the answer so far is that an A would not even come close to giving the WS the kind of shock and pain that the BS because in a way, some of them might be expecting or ,in the case of your W, hoping for a revenge A.<p>Threatening to take custody of the children is something unexpected and potentially devastating for a WS. <p>Another unexpected and potentially devastating experience is when a WS is taken back by BS and lulled into a false sense of security that all is forgotten and forgiven and when he/she least expects it, serving said spouse with divorce papers.<p>Joe<p>[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: justanotherjoe ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by justanotherjoe:
<strong><p>Dskef:<p> <p>Your situation is very interesting.<p>Prior to her A was your W the kind of person that looked down upon those that committed infidelity? Did her personality have an arrogant streak to it? Did she often state 'I would never be unfaithful'?I ask this because when prideful people take the fall and eat a big piece of humble pie, they tend to go the other extreme. I just wonder if this was the case with your W.<p>
Another unexpected and potentially devastating experience is when a WS is taken back by BS and lulled into a false sense of security that all is forgotten and forgiven and when he/she least expects it, serving said spouse with divorce papers.<p>Joe<p>[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: justanotherjoe ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p>As a matter of fact she mentioned that numerous times "I would never cheat on you, you are my best friend and I have too much respect for you". She also said that she was expecting me on Valentines day to tell her I was leaving and taking the kids. And I have never given her any indication that I would except for the night of Discovery. She also mentions that she's afraid that I'm going to do something like that when she least expects it.
Joe you hit the nail on the head again, thank you for your insight.
Darryl

Hi Joe,<p>Guess I fall into the category of BS/WS. After my Ws 2 affairs, I had what you call a revenge affair last year during a week away. It lasted about 2-3 days.<p>How I felt then was very different to how I feel now. The damage my Ws affairs did to our relationship was one thing but we didn't need the additional confusion that my affair caused.<p>I knew very well what an affair does to a marriage but the damage it does to your soul is something I learnt. If I could turn back the clock I'd definitely work harder at keeping myself clean(er).<p>take care,<p>- Freddy

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
As a matter of fact she mentioned that numerous times "I would never cheat on you, you are my best friend and I have too much respect for you". She also said that she was expecting me on Valentines day to tell her I was leaving and taking the kids. And I have never given her any indication that I would except for the night of Discovery. She also mentions that she's afraid that I'm going to do something like that when she least expects it.
Joe you hit the nail on the head again, thank you for your insight.
Darryl
<hr></blockquote><p>Darryl I beleive zorweb said it best when she said never say never. In fact, Willard Harley in one of the MB web pages stated that those that beleive that they would never have an affair are the most vulnerable to have one. And I think your wife is living proof of just that.<p>BTW I still hold the same opinion that I expressed to you in another thread that you started. And that is, that in the end, your wife's remorse and decision to stay with you validates that you are the better man. She is a free individual that has freely chosen to be with you because you are the better man. Remember that because it's true.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
Hi Joe,
Guess I fall into the category of BS/WS. After my Ws 2 affairs, I had what you call a revenge affair last year during a week away. It lasted about 2-3 days.<p>How I felt then was very different to how I feel now. The damage my Ws affairs did to our relationship was one thing but we didn't need the additional confusion that my affair caused.<p>I knew very well what an affair does to a marriage but the damage it does to your soul is something I learnt. If I could turn back the clock I'd definitely work harder at keeping myself clean(er).<p>take care,<p>- Freddy <p><hr></blockquote><p>Before I proceed, I want to thank you for your reply Freddy.<p>Freddy you just reminded me of one of the many reasons why a revenge affair is a bad idea. And that it is because prior to your RA, you had moral authority that your wife lacked and could not fight it. But after your RA she probably felt justified about her own A's, and releived because now she feels her guilty conscience evaporating. All of this making the recovery of the M now more difficult.<p>Best of luck and God bless all of you who replied (and those that didn't too).<p>Joe<p>Joe<p>[ February 25, 2002: Message edited by: justanotherjoe ]</p>

Joe,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>All of this making the recovery of the M now more difficult <hr></blockquote><p>Actually, it made it easier...after my own A I REALLY understood what happens when you're feeling vunerable, when you aren't sure about where you belong or if your partner really wants to be with you and exactly how easy it is to get involved with somebody else. It really isn't difficult.<p>I also understood what it means to make a mistake and be sorry for it and therefore I didn't stand on any moral high ground anymore. I was able to forgive my wife, we were able to work on what was missing in our relationship, and we moved on with our lives.<p>Today, we are happier with each other and more appreciative of each other than we ever were before. It still takes hard work to make our marriage work and we are both still learning what each other needs. But we're being more consistent in our behaviour towards each other and making it easier to love and be loved.<p>good luck,<p>- Freddy<p>[ February 25, 2002: Message edited by: Freddy ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> <hr></blockquote>I knew very well what an affair does to a marriage but the damage it does to your soul is something I learnt. If I could turn back the clock I'd definitely work harder at keeping myself clean(er).<p>Ok I got it so far.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> <hr></blockquote>Actually, it made it easier...after my own A I REALLY understood what happens when you're feeling vunerable, when you aren't sure about where you belong or if your partner really wants to be with you and exactly how easy it is to get involved with somebody else. It really isn't difficult.<p>I also understood what it means to make a mistake and be sorry for it and therefore I didn't stand on any moral high ground anymore. I was able to forgive my wife, we were able to work on what was missing in our relationship, and we moved on with our lives.<p>Today, we are happier with each other and more appreciative of each other than we ever were before. It still takes hard work to make our marriage work and we are both still learning what each other needs. But we're being more consistent in our behaviour towards each other and making it easier to love and be loved.<p>good luck,<p>- Freddy<p><p>Ok Freddy now I'm totally lost [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] Did your A hurt or help?<p>Joe

Okay Joe,I never post on this board but have been a long time reader. I am a BS that became a WS.My H posted on here and by my login name you can tell who he is. <p>
First let me just say that my A had nothing to do with revenge. It also had nothing to do with emotion. Did emotion become involved. Yes.What happened is that my H had an emotional affair which he denied for At least 6 months. We went to counseling for 4 months prior to my 2nd d-day. He lied to me and our counselor. One day I discovered his cell phone bills which he had been hiding and found out he called her on Christmas Eve while getting the toys from outback for our children and New Year's Eve beside the over 60 phone calls for the month. I asked him to leave and he did but was home three days later.After this second discovery I knew he was starting to try. Since they are co-workers but live on different sides of the country there was still contact but I was usually aware of it. That is after I would ask! He was very good at compartmentalizing. If he thought I didn't need to know then he wouldn't tell me. He would avoid confrontation at all costs. <p>
About myself: This A like so many other BS's on this board just rocked my world. I lost over 50 pounds and my anxiety level was at an all time high. I went on medication which helped a great deal.But I could never get some of the emotinal connection I needed from him. Also on my first d-day When I found out I couldn't even let him look at me .I felt like the ugliest person in the world inside and out. I really felt as though my marriage before that point was the best of anyone I knew. I have always had a problem with self-esteem because of my childhood. So when this happened I felt as though I deserved it. After a year of trying to do everything I could to meet his needs there was still something missing. I still felt rejected in many ways and the OW can still come in my life and act as though she is just a friend. He seemed to always protect her even though he denies this.He rather not cause an uproar at work then help me heal.So I met someone who was only interested in sex and started flirting. I wanted someone to desire me. I didn't want to be treated like a doormat anymore.After some more lies surfaced from the past I just didn't care anymore.Yes I took the wrong path.
I told my H immediately because he wanted to be intimate and I wanted him to have the choice if he even wanted to continue in this marriage. I knew what I did was wrong yet it didn't stop me.
In retrospect it did help our marriage there are still some issues but my H and I have reconnected and are doing much better.I think it was the wake up call for my H but that is not why I did it. It was purely selfish on my part.I have very mixed feelings <p>on the subject and I think that anyone who does this is playing with fire. I do feel now though if my H were to cheat again our marriage would be over.<p> I was a faithful spouse for 15 years and other men never entered my mind so never say that this can't happen to you.<p> Also wrong

How can anyone even ask if an affair makes things better? An affair never makes things better on either side! It just shows immaturity and an emotional inability to deal with the relationship and personal issues in a real manner.<p>Yes, I thought I was in love...but I also did what I did because I was an immature idiot with no idea how to deal with issues in any way other than running from them. An affair is RUNNING away, and running away is NEVER the answer!<p>Ack...that probably had nothing to do with the topic being discussed...but I just wanted to get it out [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ February 25, 2002: Message edited by: TowardsTheFuture ]</p>