Just wondering if you could tell us what incites an OW to stay with a married man even when they see that the man is making no move to leave his wife. No condemnation here - I was a WS - just curiosity.

Her post that popped up again today is from June 2001... it's old. She usually posts on gloryb. And she discusses exactly your question.

• In it for sex only?
• Don't WANT commitment of marriage?
• WS's are master manipulators--able to convince two (or more) people of their words?
• Don't want the man to leave his wife cuz they enjoy their own freedom? Financial freedom? Social freedom? No POJA needed in ANYTHING! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]
• Likes things the way they are?
• Gets money from him with little effort.
• Has no compassion nor regard for the spouse.

<p>WHO KNOWS????????? Everybody has different reasons. Some OPs say that they hold onto hope that WS will leave eventually...<p>Maybe a better question is why would WS's who have it all at home go looking for more outside of their marriage? GREED????? Most WS's never even leave, as you noted...<p>Hmmm... Harley doesn't have anything documented (that I could find) on why OPs stay, but he DOES have an article on why married women LEAVE! Check it out...<p>Why Women Leave Men<p>[ February 26, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

J-C, how are you doing?
I've searched for an update, but don't see one. What happened after you told your husband? Did he cut back on his TV watching? Did he respond to your confession with anything other than what you said earlier?<p>Just wondering about ya...my offer to talk via email is still open if you want it.

...another possible reason for remaining an OP... <p>OP believes they are adding value to the WS's life that no-one else can possibly add. OP believes that they are "rescuing" the WS from a miserable life.<p>??? who knows....

Well I can only speak for myself. BTDT listed a lot of the reason why I stayed for so long (nearly 10 years)<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BINthereDUNthat:
<strong>

• In it for sex only?
• Don't WANT commitment of marriage?
• WS's are master manipulators--able to convince two (or more) people of their words?
• Don't want the man to leave his wife cuz they enjoy their own freedom? Financial freedom? Social freedom? No POJA needed in ANYTHING! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]
• Likes things the way they are?
• Gets money from him with little effort.
• Has no compassion nor regard for the spouse.

</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Here are a few more:

• I got to live the life that I wanted.
• We rarely fought.
• I didn't need to sleep around, I had a steady on-call sex patrner
• He was my friend and made me feel safe
• I felt that it was a mutually beneficial arrangement
• In time his W never crossed my mind
• I thought that our EMA helped his married. It reduced his stress level
• We were together so long that I referred to my self as his "other wife". So I was committed without having to REALLY be committed
• I loved him
• We actually discussed the fact that he wasn't leaving his W. It really wasn't necessary in our case
• I didn't want marriage and didn't have to worry about it being a question with him
• He made it worth my while - financially
• Honest to God, for a LONG, LONG time I was just having fun.

<p>I felt like we weren't hurting anyone and it worked for us. (Until it didn't anymore)<p>================<p>As president and co-founder of the "NY Other Woman's Club" (no joke) I have OFTEN heard TOW say "he tells me all of the time that he loves me and needs both of us". That one's VERY popular!<p>[ February 26, 2002: Message edited by: Katie Scarlett ]</p>

The best thing to do would be to go to the General forum at gloryb and ask me directly. I'm the only one who can answer a question directed specifically to me. It isn't appropriate for me to answer here as that is not the purpose of this board, and I don't think it would be helpful for those that post here.<p>I will say that every affair is different. There is no one-size-fits-all answer to your question. I can only give my answer.<p>JAL

Sometimes it's the thrill of the chase;
it is a fantasy world;
lack of self respect and self esteem.<p>Just a few I can think of...

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by JAL:
<strong>The best thing to do would be to go to the General forum at gloryb and ask me directly. I'm the only one who can answer a question directed specifically to me. It isn't appropriate for me to answer here as that is not the purpose of this
board, and I don't think it would be helpful for those that post here.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hi JAL,
First of all, pardon me for jumping in on your personal thread here. For some strange reason I didn't realize you were still just a lurkin'! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] *sigh*<p>In any case, I believe the one who posted the thread is really the judge of what would be most helpful to them or not. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just seems to me that if someone asked you a question here, then evidently they thought your answer would help them understand more about you and your thinking. Just my observation...<p>Katie Scarlett:
Interesting additions that lead me to another question for you! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Are you SURE you stayed because of love? What I mean is, when you love someone you want what is best for them, right? And, at some point, you decided that it was best that he worked on his marriage. So are you sure you didn't break up with him because of love moreso than stayed because of love?

BTDT,
Hmmm. I stayed for a long time because I really really loved him and thought that I was best for him. He was crazed and stressed in his marriage. He was legally seperated at one point and I was his "stress reducer". Additionally, for a long time he was "on the verge of divorce." WHATEVER!<p>It was 9 years into the relationship that we decided that working on his marriage was what was best. Before then his keeping me happy worked quite well for both of us.<p>I helped to relieve the anxiety that he was feeling at home. Offered love, support and complete enablement (turns out he's an alcoholic and drug addict-who knew! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] ) .<p>He loved and supported me and financed my dreams. (Not just with money, but with intellectual capital, equiptment and software.) As a hobby I write, he does film production so I hada lot of doors opened for me.<p>[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Katie Scarlett ]</p>

Someone (waving to 'em [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ) tipped me off that there was a question for me here. I think that you have a point, but I have also learned that there are many people here who (a) have no interested in hearing from an OP under any circustances unless they are no longer in the affair, and they have a right to feel that way, it's their board, (b) people here are in alot of pain and hearing my story (or any OP's story, for that matter) can be a trigger for them that is even more painful, and (c) people who have had extremely negative experiences with the OP in their lives or who, for whatever reason, feel the need to demonize the OP tend to generalize and respond to OP who post as if you were THEIR OP.<p>The way I look at it, Gloryb exists and there are many BS who post there. From what I've observed, dissension and disagreement are welcome, just not flaming. Questions from WS are also answered. But, a BS who goes there knows what they will be reading, and therefore can be prepared. It isn't just dumped on them on their own board.<p>As to questions about my situation, if anyone has read the book "The Pilot's Wife" by Anita Shreve (it was an Oprah selection), it is very telling about all sides of the triangle in split self affairs/triangles and probably the closest I've ever come to reading something at actually portrayed the dynamics of my own situation. MM just finished it and agreed.<p>JAL

JAL,<p>Since you are still lurking here maybe you can answer a few more questions.<p>You don't go more than a couple of days before posting a thread about your MM's wife. I think someone on the TOW once ask why you worry so much about her if you so certain of your relationship with MM. Why do need to constantly talk about her and ridicule her in your posts?<p>What do you think your MM will do if you decided that you now want to marry him? Will he file for divorce since he's been separated for so long that it should be quite quick? Or would he think twice because it will cause him a lot of money?<p>You appear to be a big beauty expert since you have posted many times on the TOW that have a few tummy tucks, lifts and breast jobs. If you had none of these operations done, do you think your MM will still look at you the same way?<p>If your MM was to lose his wealth and position today, and will not be able to take you on anymore trips or buy you expensive gifts, what would you do?<p>This is not a flame but really want to see what your very honest answers would be.

This rather reminds me of when someone says "No offense, but..." and proceeds to say something offensive! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] In other words, it's rather difficult to conceal the "flame factor" in this post. But, since you said you didn't mean to flame, I'll answer as honestly as I can.<p>First, I am very certain, as certain as one can be, that MM will not go back to his wife and, so long as we continue to have a positive relationship (i.e. keeping an eye on each other's "love banks" to use your vernacular), we will remain together. I'm very tuned in to his needs and he in to mine. That doesn't mean it's the easiest situation in the world; it's not. Just as there are plenty of BS who still struggle with issues related to an affair, especially a l/t affair, for quite some time, our triangle is not always so comfortable for me. And, a triangle it is. However, the positives far outweight the negatives. And, that's the same choice BS make, too, right? As I've said before, the TOW board is my "box" to help me deal with the situation. Then, the rest of the time, it's not bugging me. It doesn't begin to consume my life. Lately, too, I've made some big leaps with the help of Worh Both Hats especially and also Just A Wifey among others, and now it is bothering me even less. Also, I don't know that I was ridiculing her so much as venting, and IS what the board is there for, right? but, again, in the last several weeks, I've been able to leave that behind quite sucessfully and realize why it bothered me and why I was doing it. It had to do with me, not her. And look, no one is EVER 100% secure, not you, not me, not him. Love is always a risk. But, I'm OK with mine. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If I gave MM an absolute ultimatum, yes, he would marry me, no matter what. I don't think he could bear to lose me. He has said to me on more than one occasion "if I need to get divorced, I'll get divorced, period." But, I would never do that. Who wants a relationship based on that? Demands and ultimatums? Lots of negative energy there. And, I don't feel the need for it. I have several more years before I will even consider cohabiting, let alone marrying, because I need to finish raising my kids. You need to understand that we spend as much time together, if not more, than many married couples. We have dinner together every night, we travel together, etc. Frankly, the jury's still out for me on whether I'll ever want to remarry. By the way, SW HAS given MM ultimatums, Lots of 'em, many times. They didn't work. <p>I had to laugh about your cosmetic surgery question! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] If you only KNEW! My gosh, MM was SO OPPOSED to those things, ESPECIALLY the surgery! The man thinks I look gorgeous with no make-up, the day before my period when my weight's up 10 lbs, whatever! I had to beg him to allow me to do it! I did it for ME. He actually liked my breasts better before, but he is very happy that I am happy. He still would have never consented if it hadn't happened that my surgeon is a friend of his whose opinion he values and convinced him that it was safe and that women really are much happier when they feel good about their appearance. My profession is a very visible one, and it makes me feel better about ME. He could care less. When he and I first met, I used to wear alot of make-up and had expensively died blonde hair. He hated it. Wanted the real me. Now, my hair's its own color and I wear only mascara and lip gloss. He loves it. What I do in that department is definitely not about him.<p>Regarding our lifestyle, yes, it's fabulous, I'll be the first to admit. One thing MM absolutely loves is spoiling me. Know why? I am so very, very grateful to him for all he does (truly, I am), I adore him, and I let him know all the time. I still always say thank you to him when he takes me to dinner, write him notes after trips telling him how wonderful it was, call him my "favorite date" etc. In short, I make spoiling me feel very good to him. And making him feel good is one of my favorite things in life! Now, the first year that I knew him, I was madly in love with him, but I had NO idea that he had the kind of wealth he has. I come from middle class background myself and just assumed he did, too, and was a successful business man, as he is very, very low-key. I certainly had no idea he had much to spare. I didn't see his house. I didn't discuss his lifestyle with his wife. During that year, I left my H was was struggling, literally, to feed my kids, working all the time. I didn't ask him for help. It didn't occur to me to. He helped me find a place to live because my credit was shot, but all the $$$ for it came from me. I started out that year thinking of him as a dear and dependable friend, but by the end of that first year, we were much more involved, in love, and gradualy, he began to help me. Often, I resisted and he insisted. But, eventually, it seemed very natural. He became a part of our family. And he loved me deeply and couldn't bear to see me or my little children suffer. I think one of the reason he was able to trust me and fell in love with me is that he knew I didn't know how well off he was. With his wife (and I am not bashing here, just stating a problem in their marriage), there was always an expectation of him to provide a certain lifestyle, etc. and he felt her love to be conditional. <p>I treasure him so. He has given me such a precious gift, my self esteem and a belief in me, and understanding of myself. No matter what happened financially, I wouldn't leave him. Besides, I CAN and DO work and am good at what I do. And, even if he left me, he'd leave me a far better person than he found me. <p>Hope this answers your questions.<p>JAL

JAL,<p>Just two things and they are not questions but an observation.<p>You view your post re the W as venting but if the same was posted by her about you, I am sure you would view them as bashing. Every one of your posts re her or situation about her are full of belittling statements - how she dress, how she acts, what she says. I think you would feel better about yourself if you would simply pretend she doesn't exist. You really comes across as insecure and petty when you talk about her.<p>Secondly, financail advantages or not, if MM really value YOU, he should have divorce his wife, without you giving him an any deadlines or requests. That would be a real show of respect for you(as per my H - the WS)<p>Anyways, that's all, I don't want to take up any more time of this board with this conversation.

What you need to feel valued may not be the same as what I need. Some people might say they couldn't feel valued in a marriage where infidelity has occurred, no matter what. Others might differ. I feel valued, very much so. That's what counts.<p>I think you'll agree there's no shortage of OP bashing here and no excuses made for it. It is, after all, a board for BS. I don't see myself as bashing her or belittling her, but I do use the board as a way to work through some of my own issues, and they are MY issues. If she wanted to post here, she, too, could vent away.<p>I'm happy to continue over there if there is an interest.<p>Have a nice day.<p>JAL