Every time we are getting close to some form of recovery something else happens. I was doing laundry and found evidence that my H was pleasuring himself, alone, in the family room while watching porno on TV.<p>I was sickened. I totally don't understand this and it hurts me. I feel so hurt by this. Since we've been married his sex drive has been less than mine and I have tried to talk to him about it. Now to find out he would rather have self pleasure with his movies than be with me has me totally devastated. I don't know what to do. I told him and he said he knows it was wrong and he can't explain it. That answer isn't good enough for me. He says he can't explain the cards, gifts, phone calls, gifts etc that so obviously point to an A and now he can't explain this. I hate that answer and I can't accept it anymore. <p>I'm falling apart really. I don't know what I can do when it seems he doesn't want me at all. Maybe it's time to face the fact that this man isn't happy married to me.

Hmm...<p>Tiny - I know how devastating the porn stuff is. Hurts like hell, doesn't it?<p>I think you facing the wrong fact though! You don't know if he is happy or not married to you. You can't get inside his head, and so you really don't have a fact to face on that level.<p>But, what you can do is accept that THIS is who your H is. He is not the man you want him to be, instead, he is who he is. That is the reality you can face and accept. Acceptance doesn't mean you have to like it, or even put up with it, it just means that you face reality and start making decisions based on reality, rather than what you want to be real.<p>So, the question at hand is....Tiny, what do YOU need in a relationship? Is your H a man that can or will give you that? If not, what are you going to choose to do about it?

Thanks BrambleRose. I know you're right - I just don't know what to do about it. It's like those little dolls, the one where you open one and inside is another and then another and so on. I feel like that's what's happening to me and I feel like this man I have been with for 13 years is someone I don't know at all. I know that the man I fell in love with is somewhere inside. I just don't know if I will ever find him again. <p>Our youngest daughter is home sick today and it's been a battle to fight back the tears and sadness for her sake. She loves him so much. She thinks he walks on water and she will never understand that he is the cause of my hurt and pain. Sometimes - actually most times - I feel like maybe I should be the one to go. I am nothing but dead weight in his life and the lives of my children. There is so much that I can't do now because of my sickness and all of this hurting is only making me worse. He can't possibly love me. He can't possibly care because this is not about love or caring. It's about what is good for him and the hell with how I feel.<p>I know I need to get myself together and make a decision. I just wish it could be different. I just wish I could have been what he wanted. And I wish he would have been able to love me.

Tiny ~
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>She thinks he walks on water and she will never understand that he is the cause of my hurt and pain.<hr></blockquote><p>Your daughter will understand one day with some maturity - just not now. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I feel like maybe I should be the one to go. I am nothing but dead weight in his life and the lives of my children.<hr></blockquote><p>Tiny are you on anti-depressants? If not, I think you might want to talk to your doctor, and do it soon please. This is just not reality-based thinking. This is your hurt, your fear, your anger and your battered self-esteem talking.<p>I don't know ANY child who can do without his or her mother. I doubt your children see you as a dead weight - however, if you are depressed, and it sounds like you are, you probably are not much fun to be around. You can't fix your H - but you can fix YOU. And maybe right now the YOU that needs fixing is your mothering side, instead of your spouse side.<p>So take a break from being a BS, and focus on being the best MOM you can be.<p>As for how your H sees you...I fall into that trap myself. What you need to realize that although you are 50% responsible for your marriage, you are NOT responsible for his A, which means frankly, that your H's A is more about what is wrong with HIM, rather than what is wrong with you!<p>I am finally beginning to understand that my H's use of porn in the past was more about his inability to deal with intimacy, rather than his rejection of me. But its hard to see it like that especially when it is regarding something so very hurtful.<p>I think you need to do something nice for you!<p>(((hugs)))

My H has a problem with porn addiction and masterbation as well. It is something we need to discuss more, but he was able to open up to me at the start of our recovery. He admitted to me that he has pleased himself once a day (at least) since he was a teen. By him talking about it, he also realized that there is a sexual addiction issue there.<p>There is nothing you can do to make your H see that he has a problem. As BR said, you need to work on YOU. Medication just might be what you need right now to get you out of your slump. And according to Dr. Harley, true recovery cannot occur if there are addictions involved (like OW, alcohol, sex, etc), unless they are realized and dealt with.<p>Perhaps you may want to look up sexual addiction on a search engine and read up on it? I can't remember the names of the sites I visited, but I do remember one of them had a yes / no questionnaire which could give the addict an idea of how MUCH of an addict they were. My H didn't do the test, but I answered the questions to the best of my ability. It helped me see how so much of what was happening in my M was my H's problems, not mine.<p>Karen

Thanks for the replies. I know I sound like some whiny depressed child. I am on medication for depression among other things. Although I know that I am not responsible for my H's actions it's hard to live with the knowledge of the things he has done, especially when he refuses to acknowledge any of it.<p>As far as the affair, he says he never had one. When asked to explain the cards, gifts etc. he says "I don't know". When confronted about the porn issue he claims it was "just something that happened". And in it all I say what about me? Do you understand how this makes me feel? He says yes he understands but he has no answers.<p>Honestly I believe my H is suffering from depression but any mention of that is met with anger and laughter. I spoke to our doctor about it and he agrees with me but my H still won't accept it. <p>As far as sex addiction - I don't think that's the problem but I'm no expert and so I will take your advice and check into it. <p>Again thanks. I hate feeling so lost.

Hi TinyDancer,<p>I'd like to present you with what I hope will be a slightly different slant on your post.<p>You wrote: &#8220;I was doing laundry and found evidence that my H was pleasuring himself, alone, in the family room while watching porno on TV. I was sickened. I totally don't understand this and it hurts me. I feel so hurt by this. Since we've been married his sex drive has been less than mine and I have tried to talk to him about it. Now to find out he would rather have self pleasure with his movies than be with me has me totally devastated.&#8221;<p>My question is: Why? Why take this personally? Even if he told you point blank that he was doing this because he prefers it to being with you, why take it personally? Why hitch your self-image, your own self-opinion, your own opinion of yourself and your worth as a person, the way you view yourself, to how he treats you or react and responds to you?! <p>He is a very bad mirror for you right now. He may be a bad mirror for you, period.<p>And why be so serious and distressed by it? Why not find a way to laugh about it or make a bit of a joke of it. My point here is that there are a plethora of ways to respond to his onanistic behavior, so why zero in on the way that focuses on you and what his self-gratification says about you? Why not try injecting some humor into it? Why not try to find the humor in it? If it were me, I might try by kindly placing a vat of Vaseline and a box Kleenex or Handi-wipes (whatever men use) on the coffee table in the room for his convenience. <p>The possibilities are endless. Both in terms of viewing it (facing the facts) and how you decide to respond to it.<p>You also wrote: &#8220;Maybe it's time to face the fact that this man isn't happy married to me.&#8221;<p>Honestly, I think it&#8217;s time to face the fact that he&#8217;s not happy with himself and to stop taking his unhappiness so personally. Take yourself out of the equation for right now. &#8211; And by that I&#8217;m not talking about a separation. What I mean, simply, is that perhaps you might want to begin to stop viewing your husband and his actions and reactions in relation to you or in terms of what they signify about you. Certainly that is something that is difficult to do because, after all, you are in a marriage with him, and also because, likely, it is habit; but, habit need not be destiny, and, truthfully, everything he does or fails to do need not be taken personally or view as a indication of your worth and value as a person.<p>And, more to the point, the question for you is are you happy with yourself and your place in life. And if not, then what can you do to cultivate a better and more durable sense of peace with yourself? How can you unhitch your self-image from his actions and behaviors and develop a sturdier and more autonomous sense of self?<p>TinyDancer, you also wrote: &#8220;When confronted about the porn issue he claims it was &#8216;just something that happened.&#8217; And in it all I say what about me? Do you understand how this makes me feel? He says yes he understands but he has no answers.&#8221;<p>He has no answers because he is in pain OR he is just that narcissistically self-absorbed and selfish. Yes, he understands how it makes you feel in the sense that he has some vague inkling that you don&#8217;t approve of what he&#8217;s doing, but that knowledge of your hurt (it&#8217;s not hurt to him, it&#8217;s discomfort or disapproval) and disapproval are outweighed by the release he gets from porn or the pain he has that he&#8217;s trying to hide from momentarily by masturbating.<p>TinyDancer, in addition to your Marriage Builder work, have you looked into &#8220;Relationship Rescue&#8221; by Dr. Phil, or &#8220;Passionate Marriage&#8221; by David Schnarch, Ph.D.? (Or even &#8220;The Five Love Languages&#8221; by Gary Chapman or &#8220;The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work&#8221; by John Gottman, Ph.D.) <p>Schnarch&#8217;s book, especially, may be of benefit for you. In it he speaks a lot about learning to self-validate. He also addresses sexual &#8220;dysfunction&#8221; from the perspective of differentiation & fusion. Schnarch&#8217;s book is a definite must-read if you are trying to grow your marriage out trouble or emotional gridlock.<p>Take Care,<p>Paruil

Yeah, TinyD,
I agree with Paruil that your H does NOT have the power to dictate to you your self worth. Only YOU can measure that.<p>I feel your pain of feeling powerless to convince someone to love you or win them over with your love. His dishonesty and unwillingness to communicate his true feelings and reasons behind his actions sounds like it must be so frustrating for you. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You don't sound whiney, just purely frustrated. After what you've gone through, it seems to me that you are entitled.<p>However, you are NOT entitled to be beating up on yourself or thinking you are not worthy of his love or anyone's for that matter. He's just too blind to realize what he has in you, the mother of the kids he so cherishes. He doesn't seem to realize that if it weren't for you, he would not even have those kids... How ungrateful of a person is THAT???<p>The FACT is, it's no wonder his sex drive has (supposedly) been less than yours--NOW YOU KNOW why!!!!!!<p>[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

Hi Tiny Dancer,<p> First of all, please don't feel this way about yourself. Did you see Phil McGraw on Oprah? I found it really , really helpful.<p>First , if you have caught him doing things , you have to think through how and what you will do if he continues on the cheating path. Phil claims that you CAN'T always trust others but you need to TRUST yourself, that you can deal with things and be oK . That means get rid of the thinking that you are dead weight, you have been lied to , you SHOULD be untrustful.<p>Also, on the issue of pornography, he pretty much says it's NOT ok and an intrusion into the marriage. It takes the place of what a person should be getting from their spouse. If you go to Oprah's website, there is alot from Dr. Phil on this subject. I think alot of people think porn is ok, but if it's bothering YOU it's not OK. LU