wednesday is my one tv day...ed, west wing, law and order....ed had kind of an unsettling twist, was about being the ow, and was sympathetic....she (molly, who is overweight, and can never get a good relationship going) was falling in love with jim (and he her) seemed a nice guy etc. etc. but later in the show ed accidently found out he was married (molly didn't know either), Ed, made it clear he tells molly and does it now, so Jim does, molly is devastated, feels stupid (why she never wondered he didn't take her to his house, always had to call him only on cell phone, etc,)....Jim tells her he is so sorry, she runs off....later he tells ed, look I know you all think I am a jerk, but I really love molly (ed gives the yeah right look), my wife and I are estranged (wife is trouble), we should have ended it (and implies now he will, after ed asks what are you going to do), and he will get molly back....I thought when ed asked, he was going to say I will go tell my wife the truth, and work on that one way or another.....not that he is going to dump her for molly....oh well....Needless to say the w got no airtime, so who knows what her deal was....and fine, she could have been trouble, and Jim could have been justified in leaveing..... but I feel the show dropped the ball in how jim was going to resolve this common human problem (turn away form ow, and resolve life first, rather than turn to ow, and leave wife first).... The writers did expend a little diaglog on how demonstrating how an EA develops, so that was good, but the episode left one with the feeling it is ok to make friends, then date someone and not tell em you are married up front, that kinda bugged me....and his response to the discovery and implication is ok cause he loves molly kinda bugged me too. Yes people find themselves in these circumstances, but you do choose how to deal with them.

This is what I meant when I posted on Regretting's thread about how many infidelity triggers abound.<p>It might be a simple comedy show on TV or overhearing an innocent conversation... next thing you know the BS is having a down day when things may have been going pretty good. *sigh*<p>Oh well... It's not what happens to us, it's how we deal with it, right? Hang tough & keep the faith!

And BTW, NO! I was not watching ED last night! I was watching the GRAMMY's and the emcee was terrible!!! At one point the crowd was clapping and he made a joke that he thought they were clapping for him, but he realized that a band was setting up to perform. THAT was the only funny thing he said! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

I watched Ed too, in a different room. They sort of put it that it is OK to date while being married. It is OK to have an affair, and not tell anyone. Then tell your wife afterwards, seems to be my story too. I gathered Jim is going to dump his wife and get Molly back. Ed seemed to think this was okay too. The TV programs are going to h*ll.<p>And Ed and his girlfriend having the bedroom scene, and she left in the morning. Shows that you can have sex, but in the morning the other person might be gone. So it was like, have your fun when you can get it. Like the other thread, "If offered will they accept?" Here is a classic TV show that says, YES!!! If married no strings, if single no strings, just to what feels good!!! Disgusting!!!!!<p>I agree that Jim's wife should of had a few minutes on TV, show the pain and suffering she felt, show the distrust, the betrayal, etc. Tell her side of the story. To me, I think Jim is a habitual liar! WS - syndrome do what they want, when they want, at no cost to hurting anyone, and it feels so good, so do it!<p>[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: thinker ]</p>

snl,<p>I don't watch Ed, but am a big fan of Law & Order.
Scares me a little that you watch it too!!! <p>I think the episode you described is a perfect example of human behavior. A person/spouse is unhappy in their marriage or life in general. Instead of finding the root cause of that unhappiness, dealing with it and taking steps to resolve it (one way or another), they look for another source of happiness (OP), keeping their spouse on a shelf as a "safety net". Once they find that supposed source of happiness, they keep both (BS and OP) hanging in the balance until the scales tip on way or another. Unfair to everyone involved, but easier than working on the marriage or ending it WITHOUT having someone waiting in the wings. Just my take on it. <p>sad dad<p>[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: sad dad ]</p>

why do you watch L&O sad dad, I am curious, then I will tell you why I watch it. Scarey huh, yep the differences between bs and ws start fading away when you delve in their lives amd realize both are just people, and pretty much are the same in many ways....anyways, I think for the most part under similar circumstance I would be acting like you in your life, near as I can tell emotionally and psychologically...curious what your keirsey temperament might be.<p>www.kiersey.com<p>[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]<p>[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by sad_n_lonely:
[QB]curious what your keirsey temperament might be.<p>www.kiersey.com
QB]<hr></blockquote>'<p>
Do you put much faith in those tests? Everytime I take one, I come up with a completely different result and the questions seem so vague and subjective. Some are very hard to answer because they give an either/or when NEITHER would be my truest answer. That makes it almost impossible to come up with any thing resembling an accurate result.<p>I just took the Keirsey Temperment test and the results are so far from my personality that anyone who knows me would die laughing. And I assure you if I took it over again, the results would be different from the first go around because of the subjectivity, vagueness of the questions.

I watched parts of it and I saw the scene where Jim is telling Ed about his marriage. My reaction was to look over at my husband and say
"That's a crock of [censored]. When a person leaves a bad marriage for someone with whom they are having an affair they're looking at having the exact same problems with that person down the road. They need to resolve the issues that created problems in their marriage before they move on." My husband who has had no exposure to MB or affair issues agreed with me wholeheartedly.<p>I thought they did a very poor job of portraying an affair situation. The implication was that since Jim's marriage was bad (his perspective) that it would be the best thing for him to dump his wife and continue his relationship with Molly. He had led poor Molly on and now it was his obligation to leave his wife and try to make it up to her somehow.<p>Funny, I never would have thought about it twice before discovering this web site. I bet most people watching thought it was just fine.

Meloday Lane - The Harleys don't believe in the temperment tests. Like the Harleys said, they are so different. In one of the threads a guy does give these tests for a profession and he disagrees with SNL. Your answers will be different from one day to another. It depends on your mood, what your week has been like, the outside experiences. There is no clear cut one person, always that person, people change all the time. Heck you have a H who just ignores you and doesn't respect you for weeks. Take the test and it would be different than when you took it after your honeymoon. Take the test when you are 10, take the test when you are 20, take the test when you are 30, etc. all will be different. A lot has to do with the life experiences you have had. This was noted to me! After I found about the sexual affair of my H, 6 months after he told me it was only an EA. My answers were different. <p>Personality, is not all DNA. The books say, a lot of it is how you lived your life, the atmosphere around you, the experiences you had, mentors in your life, etc. SNL seems to believe by these tests. Another problem in our marriage.<p>Sweet Jane - I have to disagree with you, I think quite a few people would think it was poorly done! That is why Jim's wife should of had time to express herself on the TV program. Maybe next segment she will!<p>[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: thinker ]</p>

snl,<p>I've always had a fascination with the law because it's not so black & white. There's alot of grey area. DA's have to make deals to get convictions that must really test their moral and ethical standards. Defense attorney's have to battle their conscience and do their best get their clients acquitted, even if they're guilty.
The internal struggle must be hard to live with. I could never be a lawyer. I couldn't handle knowing that by doing my job, I got a murderer or rapist freed or that because of a legal loophole I couldn't get a conviction. <p>What I like most about L&O is that it's about the crime and the law. It doesn't get into the personal lives of the characters, and unlike Perry Mason, the good guy doesn't always win. I like that. Life isn't always right or fair.<p>I'll have to check out the "keirsey" temperment.<p>sad dad

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by thinker:
<strong>Your answers will be different from one day to another. It depends on your mood, what your week has been like, the outside experiences. [ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: thinker ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I agree, thinker! I think my HOROSCOPE is more accurate than these Keirsey tests!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by sad dad:
<strong><p>I'll have to check out the "keirsey" temperment.<p>sad dad</strong><hr></blockquote><p>sad dad,<p>What is your horoscope sign and I will run your horoscope report? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Hey thinker, what is snl's birthdate?

melody, keirsey is just a tool, not an answer, but it is another piece of the puzzle, humans are not all the same, we differ physically, intellectually, emotionally, pyschologically, in recognizable ways, and we make decisions and choices based on those differences. Physical differences seem obvious, but that is not even so, suppose you vary in your cardiac capacity, that means someone could be a better athlete (in certain sports) than others, and knowing that would make you decide accordingly....ditto other differences.... Psychological differences are labeled temperament, and again they do matter, they matter in your interests, your employment, and your relationships. There is no dispute over this, it is intuitively true (we know this, cause we all live it, and we all know people who are perfectly fine decent human beings, that we cannot stand to interact with on a personal level, much less be married too, no matter how expert they were at applying MB principles). The argument is over our understanding of temperament, it is still in a very early stage of efficacy, but is improving. The keirseys have taken this feild and moved it another notch forward (as does the developement of all human knowledge), as well as done some population studies.... there goal is two-fold, to refine the model and produce consistent results in determining temperament, and to study the interactions of temperament, and apply this knowledge in our choices. <p>For example, we have a um.... general concept that opposites attract, that is true actually, and the those who study the biochemisty of human behaviour have found the same....that is NOT the same as saying opposites should marry. The kierseys investigated (and they explain their methodology for one to evaluate) the relationship between temperament and successful relationships, they found the key ingredient is how the different temperaments process information, and that this identifiable with great accuracy...they also found that marriages with people who are opposites do not do as well as those who are similar, which makes sense, they are less likely to be on the same page....but I won't try to report all this here, get their book (it is in the bookstores) and decide for yourself what's what.<p>I do think many things factor into fit, culture for example, intelligence for another....but the biggest factor is the psychologies of the two individuals, this is fixed, and will fit on a scale, the higher the fit the more likelihood of being in-love (which is simply the lable for people who fit really well, but is often abused as a label by people who only think they fit, and can't understand why the marriage is so dysfunctional), and the greater likelihood of success... I do think one should do the work to ascertain their own psychology, and how to recognize others, the better you do this, the more accurately you can predict the nature of interactions with them...and the easier time you will have of pierceing the mask people wear, especially if they are trying to have a relationship with you.....it is sad, but understandable, how often people marry, and right away realize they made a huge mistake...as they find out who is behind the mask.<p>The kierseys don't tell anyone who to marry, they just tell you what you can expect in your interactions and attempt at intimacy with various temperament types, but they do a lot more too, talk about this stuff in parenting, also employment.... and as we get better at psychologcially profiling people, we can apply this stuff and enrich our lives....if you are a certain temperament, it makes no sense to spend your time/emotional resources dating folks with low likelihood of success, yep you might miss the one in a million odd fit that would work great, but more likely you will find a more compatible mate if you apply the standards and date accordingly.<p>As for you, hard to comment without knowing the tests you took, are you taking the full test? And one should take it several times, and maybe other versions to get a good picture....and you may be sabotagueing the tests, which says more about you then the tests... also, they are rough tests, they shoot for 16 variations, but a pattern should emerge, you should be grouping around a few of the variations, not be all over the map. People poo poo psychology, but it is a very real characteristic of who we are.....humans are very predictable if you get far enough into their heads, and as we can do that, then track the different interactions (marriage, employment, etc.) and can build a knowledge base people can apply in their lives.

Melody Lane - SNL birthday is 9-16-50, mine is 6-27-50. Don't believe in horoscopes, just doing this for fun! There is no fun here. As far as temperment, you can see for yourself who believes what! Waiting for your horscope!<p>In meantime would be nice if things got done here.

Thanks thinker! Here is the link to SNL's horoscope:
http://rep.astrology.com/free/3059/2999/1.html<p>Here is your horoscope:<p>http://rep.astrology.com/free/3059/3103/1.html<p>Love Match between Virgo and Cancer:<p>
Virgo and Cancer
When Cancer and Virgo make a love match, a strong, down-to-earth relationship with staying power is the happy result. This is a relationship with great potential to get better and better over the passing years. Both Cancer and Virgo are goal-oriented and disciplined. They are sincere and devoted to one another and share a strong sense of purpose. No lightweight love here: These two were not really built for flings! Cancer and Virgo deeply admire one another: Virgo respects Cancer's quiet strength and dedication while Cancer appreciates Virgo's keen adaptability and intelligence. <p>These lovers may get off to a slow start, but over time, bonds will only grow stronger. The Cancer-Virgo love match prides itself on common sense and strong principles over fluff and inconsequential or fleeting connections. They enjoy the material comforts of life, but they will only feel good about their bounty if it has come as a result of honest hard work. There could be tiffs if Virgo becomes too critical for Cancer's easily bruised feelings; Cancer needs to understand that it's just Virgo's nature to point out what they observe, that it's not a personal attack. A Virgo may bristle at their Cancer mate's stubborn streak, but it's a trait that a patient and understanding love partner like Virgo could come to appreciate. Also, Virgo's urge to serve suits Cancer's affectionate, nurturing nature well. <p>The Moon (Emotion) rules Cancer, and Mercury (Communication) rules Virgo. Though they're very different planets, they're both near the Sun and therefore always in one another's neighborhoods. The Moon is a mothering influence; it's about cultivation and fostering growth, which are both central concerns for Cancer. Mercury is all about communication, and it's an androgynous energy -- Virgo will adapt and take on the form that it chooses, the guise that best serves a situation. Virgo takes an intellectual approach to life (especially compared to the emotional Cancer), but still manages to be perceptive and intuitive enough to figure others out if they choose. Good thing for the Crab, then, that a Virgo mate can get a feel for devotion and domestic fulfillment if that's what their Cancer lover desires. These two won't argue about fulfilling one another's needs. They'll work at it and relish the rewards of their conscientiousness.<p>[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]<p>[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</p>

SNL,<p>I really don't mean to be flip about these tests but the thing I don't get is this: why would I need to take a test to know my traits? I already know my traits better than anyone. Especially a subjective, generalized test that knows nothing about me. I just have never seen the logic or purpose behind this kind of stuff. <p>It's sort of like folks who go to psychics and get all excited when the psychic makes a RARE hit and tells them that they have 3 children. Didn't they already KNOW they had 3 children??? What is the point of paying someone to tell you what you already know? Especially when you already know so much MORE about that? <p>So excuse me if I seem flip about this, I just never saw the point of reading horoscopes or taking tests to be told - usually very INACCURATELY - what my traits are. I already KNOW what my traits are!

Back to "Ed" for a moment. My H seemed to get kind of squirmy when that storyline developed as it is pretty much his story with the deceiving the OW about his marital status, and he was able to talk her into continuing the A after she was furious with him when she found out he was married. I wonder if he'll be watching "Ed" next week to see if Molly capitulates as his OW did.<p>It must have had some effect on him though because last night he made love to me like there was no tomorrow and afterwards was very tender and told me he loved me, said pretty intensely like he wanted me to believe him.<p>Still don't though. Have no clue what love is anymore and don't want to know. Don't want anything to do with it anymore. Feel like I discovered it doesn't exist and like H is trying to get me to believe in Santa Claus or The Tooth Fairy.

Shucks!!!
I thought you mean´t MR. ED

I loved mr ed...a horse is a horse of course, of course unless of course the horse is the famous Mr ed....say that 5 times real fast. i think I got it right, probably not though.

A horse is a horse of course of course
And noone can talk to a horse of course
That is of course Unless the horse is the famous Mr Ed<p>Go right to the source and ask the horse
He'll give you the answer that you endorse
He's always on a steady course
Talk to Mr Ed