I am an old member and I am usually on the recovery board. I have been lurkng around the entire sight for a few weeks and I noticed something. Not that many are actually working with the MB principals to try and work it out. <p> My question is simple, how many of you are actually USING the MB Objectives to try and work on your marriage?? Have you all read the books??<p> I know that WAT, Orchid,Leilani, Zoreb, Topie, and so many more are good examples of using the MB tools and seeing the good or bad results. But I see so many more just in here for a quick fix that have not read a book or an article. <p> I am sorry if I sound harsh that is not my intent. I really just wanted toknow how many are using the tools this site intends for you to help save, or recover your marriage???<p>allie

I've read all the books and everything there is to read on this site along with the newsletter. It's hard to stick to one of the Plan's (A or B) when you have an uncooperative spouse. I stayed with plan A as long as I could and I feel stronger because of it, but it didn't make my marriage stronger. We moved to somewhat of a Plan B in November and are now back in Plan A. <p>I have asked my H to read the books but he shows no interest. I have asked him to do the questionnaires and again, no interest. I have printed things from this site but he glances at them and doesn't comment. <p>I believe you're correct in that people are looking for a quick fix. I also know it's not possible. So I continue with this site and the program as outlined here. I have come to realize that although it may not save my marriage it will save me.

Tiny thanks for the reply. and good luck to you and your H.<p> I, too, have read everything I can get my hands on in here. I also had a receptive H ithe fact that he did read it and he wanted to help us. Through that and a lot of hard work we have magaged to really change our marriage for the better. Most of MB princpals helped us to put a different perspective on our marriage for us. I never had to Plan B, and I did a Plan A before I knew what it was.<p> The book HIS NEEDS/HER NEEDS is still my lifeline even after years of recovery. <p> Thank you again!<p>allie

I've been here for a while now....almost a year and I've come to notice that everyone actually does use the MB techniques.....but we all use it in our own way.<p>Just as our lives are different from each others....our situations are different.
I know that I didn't follow Plan A to the letter....that's because I felt that I couldn't.
I took some concepts from it and added it to what I thought would work for me and my H....since I know him better than anyone.<p>I think that is what I've seen most people doing lately. They aren't blowing off the MB principles....but they are making them work for them in a way that they think they will work.<p>There isn't a quick fix....and I think that all of us know that. But it's also not always entirely possible to follow things by the book....as in Plan A & B. Sometimes we have to modify it to our own situations.

Hi Alexy, yes I've read all of the materials, the books and then some. Though I have a "cooperative" WS, it's also difficult to rebuild (or even want to) when the WS won't admit certain truths about themselves -- addictions for one. I know I'm not looking for a quick fix. Don't believe there's such a thing. <p>What I am looking for here is communication with others; those who are rebuilding and those who are not, more importantly those who are recovering, alone or with their spouse. Sometimes all you need is a gentle nudge from someone who has been through the same ringer and suddenly your whole perspective is altered. That's a good thing!<p>Snow

Does it matter more if you have read the books and such? Or does it matter more what you hope to gain from this site/board?<p>I have look at the MB site and read through a lot. I have not read the books, and my husband and I haven't really tried the stated Plan A or B, but I think that we are doing quite well with our rebuilding. Contact is done with my OM and hubby and I are really working together on communciation and making eachother feel safe and desired in our marriage. I am not hear for a "quick fix", although at times I do post for a quick boost when I am down - as I'm sure many others do. If I'm correct this site is designed for those who want to productively preserve, fix, repair, rebuild, etc. their marriage. Well, that's what I am doing. I am here to get views from those who have been betrayed to help me understand things from my husbands eyes. I am also here to help others understand from a betrayers side. I am not proud of what I have done to my marriage or my family as a result [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] (which is doing pretty good now), but hubby and I are about 7 1/2 months into rebuilding and I find that this is a very good support system for me. I'm sorry if I'm not up there with some of you in reading the books and such, but although I may not follow the same outline, I do believe I am here for the same purpose and am acquiring the same things as many of you. Actually, I was thinking the other day how my husband and I have accomlished several things discussed on the MB site, just not through a Plan A or Plan B. <p>Anyhow, I like it here, and I'm not here to cause trouble or disrupt. I am here to learn, grow and help. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Alexy,
I would whole heartedly agree with these responses. I think that we all take some different things away from this site and the MB material and other sources , too. In a counseling session the other day I found myself hearing some of the same suggestions that MB's give but maybe not in such a structures format. I believe that the recovery and survival of marriages and how to do it are not completely different between individual therapists. Some just approach it in a different manner. I've heard many of the same principles from Dr. Phil on Oprah but they are expressed in another way. This site gives so much support to all of us. That in itself is a great credit to the MB concept. Reading SAA is what got my W and I on this road to recovery( at least I hope.)We are working on "Torn Assunder"
now.
Brw

plan a/b does not work for all situations. Many have to modify the plans to make them work. In my case, I had read three of Harley's books before I even knew of the affair. My wife bought the first, SAA because she liked the stuff in it. I was embarrased to buy because at the time, I thought neither of us was having an affair. As it turns out, she bought it to find out how to get over the OM.<p>When I learned of the actual affair, I did plan a for three weeks. I could not do it any more. It was killing me to know that my wife was living with me as a roommate (sleeping in another room, completely ignoring me) while at the same time, still seeing the OM. I moved to a modified plan b. I asked her to move out but still retained some contact. When I finally decided to go full plan b, she decided she wanted to work on our marriage (the OM was already out of the picture at that time). She continued to live in an apartment for two more weeks before we both agreed that she could move back home. Now I am back to full plan a. Hopefully soon, she will be as well.

I read HNHN between marriages, so I thought I knew how to make it work this time, and I did for a long time do my part--I met his needs. But he was never interested in my needs and in fact would not meet any need he disapproved of or thought was stupid. His deal is that if he doesn't think it's a "legitimate" need, then it's my fault I have it.<p>Then, my needs finally became so great with multiple crises piling up on top of each other that it took everything I had to just survive. I could no longer meet both his needs and mine. Then he became cruel and resentful, and instead of helping me recover and get through my grief, he had his A.<p>Since then I've read most of the things on the site and SAA. And I've pretty much eliminated LBs and my H assures me I'm meeting his ENs. But he's still not meeting mine, beginning with the extraordinary precautions from SAA. So, once again I'm back to trying to survive with little help from him.<p>I've written and asked Dr. Harley if it is just a given that when one spouse becomes incapacitated for some reason that they should just expect their spouse to have an A. With the MB theory it seems like there is no "for better AND for worse", that the "for worse" times are going to result in an A. I still haven't found anything written by the Harleys about illness, injury, grief and other life events that can prevent one spouse from meeting the other's ENs and what, if anything, can be done about it.

Wow it is wonderful to see that so many are actually using what they need in their own way here. I applaud you all. Rebuilding is a hard thing, but if you find our way, the way that works, it can be achieved. You all made wonderful reples, and I am glad you all found a haven of hope.<p>allie

Hi allie!
How are you?! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] YES! My H and I do read MB concepts, Q&As, books, etc. to improve our communication and interaction and problem-solving. There has not been an affair, but when we discovered MB, we were both in a serious withdrawal state of mind over a conflict we were having.<p>It was so refreshing to learn through Harley's article that some disagreements in marriage actually have no solution! You find ways to negotiate a policy of joint agreement to get through the difficulties. Very helpful stuff for us.<p>We have HNHN notebooks and we make MB dates where we go to dinner and take turns reading articles to each other. My H doesn't post, but I share notable posts with him or I ask him questions that others ask to get his perspective. We also encourage other couples we know to embrace the concepts as well. So anyway, my answer to your question is YES! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi Alexy,<p>I'm reading the books and using the site to help me understand. Finding out about my W's A was a devastating blow and I am seeking a quick fix as we all are. I mean by that I want the quickest fix available, which i know takes time. I'm new here and I want to avoid any behaviour that works against my interest. Venting here and getting feedback is extremely valuable. I'm a novice struggling to get to grips woth the concepts and appreciate all the help I am getting.<p>I am sure that without this site, I would have LB'd my way to a much worse position than I am in now - and it's bad enough already.<p>It's interesting to note how closely the experience here tends to mirror my own. Advice from friends is generally geared at limiting my pain in the short term by getting it over and done with, with elements of revenge. That is not what I want. I feel here is where people understand what I want and how best to get it.

HEy BTDT, I am getting along. I am still having emotional issues with the loss of the baby. I need to really snap out of it. I tend to lurk more than post in here these days.<p> The great part is H and I are still going full throttle, still following the MB way, and are actually more happy than wehave ever been.<p> How are you??<p>allie

tutter13 said “Does it matter more if you have read the books and such? Or does it matter more what you hope to gain from this site/board?”<p>Yes, tutter13, it matters very much if you have read the books. This website it meant to supplement the material. They also give a road map and steps to follow to make things work. The books should be available at your local library if you cannot afford the.<p>Remember that Dr. Harley provides this web site at his own expense. The goals of all here should be to recover their marriages using the MB concepts and to reinforce the MB concepts.<p>Lately I have been finding it difficult to help people because they do not have the necessary background to understand what I am talking about. No one here is going to be able to take the time, nor have the background, to teach the MB concepts to every new comer. That’s what the books are for.<p>Tutter13, tell me, you say that you and you H have not done Plan A or Plan B. Have you both completed the emotional needs questionnaire, the personal history questionnaire, and done the love buster work? You see, it is important that the people here follow the same general outline for rebuilding their marriage. That is what the web site it for.<p>A couple does not have to go through a ‘formal’ plan A or plan B to follow the MB concepts. They do need to do the work outlined in MB to follow the concepts.
I’m very glad to hear that you and you H are doing well.

You know what they say, "It takes two." You can read every book ever printed on saving your marriage, apply one principle after another, but if it falls on deaf ears or an unreceptive indivdual...oh well. <p>You can't manipulate, control, or make someone love you when they don't want to. You can plan A until the cows come home, but if the person isn't interested...you are spinning your wheels. I think a lot of people who are on this site want to save their marriage; they wouldn't be here if they didn't. One thing I have noticed though, is some folks assume that if they can save their marriage...so can everyone else who does what they do. I think not. Everyone is different. Some people here are dealing with abuse, substance abuse, mental illness, and a million and one other factors that are contributing to what is happening in their marriage. How about the spouse who has a teenager who has Oppostional Definace Disorder and his or her spouse can't handle it? Maybe that person starts drinking...escaping...how is plan A going to help that couple? <p>It's easy to assume that infidelity is the big cause of a divorce. But it is an unfair assumption. Not everyone is a WS or BS. Lots of marriages go down the tubes between the 10th and 20th year. And it isn't always an affair.<p>Let's face it when you are going through marital trauma, you are not operating on normal. A lot of people do get desparate and are looking for answers, some insight, and even a quick fix if that will work. You can feel the sadness and desparation in their posts...they are trying and frustrated that things are not going the way they anticipated they would.<p>I applaud you if you were able to save your marriage, but don't assume the rest of us didn't follow MB principles or read all the books...even if someone hasn't it doesn't mean they don't want to save their marriage. Reading a book or article isn't the trick. It's two people working together on resolving their differences. <p>"You can lead a horse to water, but can't make him drink." Isn't that the truth.

Well Zorweb - I found your post rather offensive. To me it seems that you are saying it's MB's way or no way. Well, many others here welcome and appreciate me, but I feel rather unwelcomed by your post. Thank you for trying to push me out because I'm not doing it the MB way. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] And quite honestly, I believe this site was intended to rebuild and repair. The MB way is there to help those whom it can help, but the overall idea is the same. So, if we are all here for the same purpose, it shouldn't matter if I've read the damn book or have done the questionaires. It's not a matter of affording them or going to the library, I just haven't read them. And, as for understanding the MB way and those who post to me with respect to it, I have no problem following them at all. So, I'm sorry you seem to feel that I don't belong here, but that is exactly the feel I got from your post. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

tutter,
I'm not here to defend zorweb. She's capable of doing so if she chooses. I'm here to defend what I, and several others, believe to be the purpose of this forum. While we tend to discuss many topics and ideas NOT related to the MB principles, that should be the main focus of this forum. Personal growth is very important, but everyone here should be familiar with, and at least agree and practive most of the MB prinicples.<p>Here's the page from the MB web-site that you should read and agree to before even entering the forum.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
Welcome to the Marriage Builders Discussion Forum!
Before participating in the forum, please follow these guidelines: <p>1. If you are having difficulty resolving a marital conflict, first read Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts.
2. If you have a question after reading the Basic Concepts, look over the Summary of Q&A Columns to see if your question has already been asked.
3. If your question has not been asked in any of the Q&A Columns, or if it was not answered to your satisfaction, then we encourage you to post your question on this Marriage Builders Forum. <p>This forum is open to not only those who have questions, but also to those with comments or suggestions. We recommend that all participants of the discussion forum be familiar with Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts. <p> <hr></blockquote><p>We hope that you will stay around to gain and give support. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Well Faith, that's not the idea I gathered from Zorweb's post. I'm not trying to start something here, I just felt as though I was being told I don't belong. Guess what?!? I did read and am familiar with the basic concepts. I printed off several of the things from this site earlier this week and read them on the bus ride home. However, just because I haven't read the books or done Plan A and B, does not mean I don't belong. I am here for the same purpose as everyone else. I do not disagree with the MB ways and the only time I question anything about them is if I'm not familiar and I have asked where I can find this info to get familiar with it (e.g. the Plan A and B). I have read most of the web site info here, however, I have not read his books and no, I have not done the questinairs. Yet, that doesn't mean I shouldnt' be here. Have I not contributed productively? I know I have gained a lot. You know, Zorweb's post was the only negative toward what I wrote in this thread. Most seemed to agree that sometimes one specific outline doesn't work for everyone. I just felt singled out and as if I were basically being told I don't belong. If that's the case, let me know and I'll leave. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

tutter13,<p>I don't think zorweb meant to single you out and I don't think she meant to make it look like you weren't welcome here.<p>I can however see how you got the feeling that you weren't welcome.<p>I've been here for almost a year now. I didn't read any of the books until someone sent me one...and it's the only one I did read.
I didn't really do a Plan A the MB way....never went to Plan B.
My H and I have never filled out any of the Questionaires.
I applied the MB Principles as I saw fit in my case.....so it wasn't just the MB way.
I was set back by the post myself and sort of felt like she meant that I didn't belong here also......BUT<p>I do belong here.....because I am trying to restore my marrige. That is what this site is about.<p>If you choose to use the MB Principles then all the better for being at this site. I'm sure that even the Harley's can admit that the MB way is NOT the ONLY wayto save a M or relationship. Situations and people are different......what works for one may not work for antoher.<p>I think that this board has changed alot since I became a member......alot of people have joined since then.
With all those people joining comes new ideas...nothing wrong with that. What's wrong with adding new ideas to follow along with those of MB. It doesn't take away from MB....but helps it grow.<p>By the way....I might add.....we all really do use the MB Principles in everyday life....whether we realize it or not.<p>So tutter......please don't feel as though you don't belong here....because if you don't....then I don't.

Thank you so much Miss Priss. I needed that. You are right - we all use the MB principles every day. Thank you again for your post. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]