To be crude, MM, there is a major difference between a friend and a lightbulb - you can UNscrew a lightbulb. <p>You have crossed the line with this woman, and it is a chasm that can never be recrossed. You can never be friends with her now, because of the actions you have already taken, none of which were based on friendship.<p>FYI, the reason our marriage counsellor advised me in front of my H to leave my H immediately,and told my H to his face in my presence that H is an emotional abuser, is NOT because of his EA with XOW, but BECAUSE OF THE 8 MONTH PERIOD IN WHICH H "JUST WANTED TO BE FRIENDS WITH XOW." Because H WOULD not end his "friendship". It ended when XOW phoned him and dropped him.<p>The counsellor refused to see us again.That's how seriously he took it that my H wanted to be friends with his XOW, even though there was never any sexual contact whatsoever, even though H never held and kissed her, never stroked her hair, never held her hand. Even though XOW had been out of our lives for a year by the time my depression and physical breakdown drove H into counselling with me.<p>Please direct your W to this board. She's going to need all the help and support she can get in the near future, seeing you refuse to protect her from your self.<p>If you really do love your W and want to protect her, call the Harleys and ask them this same question directly - can you be friends with your OW? <p>Rationalize = Rational Lies.

2 questions MM<p>1) did you know President Clinton did not have sexual intercourse with Monica Lewinsky? it was an inappropriate relationship as you admitted this "friendship" "use to be".<p>2) How are you going to make what you have done wrong (in the passed) right?

I know juststartingover, same thing happened to us. In fact if MM could look outside of himself and into the pain and suffering that has made this board so busy he would see his reality is just like all the others.<p>I wonder if this man has kids. <p>To tell my kids (ages 7 and 8) daddy is moving out 3 times in one year because of this "friendship" how do you ever repair the damage done to kids? to see their eyes tear up and them cry on my shoulder day after day as I just hold them and say "i know it hurts". My son actually asked "why does daddy keep making the same mistake if it hurts us so much"

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mmseekingadvice:
<strong>My question is not to justify the past, but to ask about the future. If all the touching stops, what is wrong with being friends?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well, how about using your own words to answer your question:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>The only problem I could forsee is if this woman does open her heart to me...</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Sounds like a great basis for a friendship [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] . <p>My last question to you will be this: would you find it acceptable for your W to have a male friend whom she has, ahem, stroked in the past, professed her love for him, and wrote him love notes? Especially if she convinces you that there are no worries, because her male friend's heart is a rock?? I find it hard to believe that that would work you, but what do I know... My ex had a married male friend at work, and they did fun things together, and then he gave her jewelry, but it was all "cool" because they were just friends... "Somehow" they ended up in bed, and now there is one family broken up (mine) and one other in the process... Four children altogether growing up in dysfunctional families because of this "friendship"... Before you continue this friendship, ask yourself if you're willing to lose your marriage over it, or else you'll end up like my ex who is still scratching her head saying "I don't understand how this happened". In a word, "duh"...<p>Good luck with this friendship, you'll need it (the luck, not the friendship).<p>AGG

Wake up and smell the sweet roses!<p>You wrote under your "wrong" thread the following:<p>"I would like to hear from a woman who guarded her heart and then finally gave in. To me it seems clear that this woman is not emotionally involved with me."<p> [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] Hello! I think I stated this to you in a previous post of mine. I guarded my heart and I never in a million years expected I would ever cheat, but I did! [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] You've stepped over that line and you can't go back. Trying, and I say TRYING, to be just friends won't work. There is nothing wrong with being friends with someone of the opposite sex, but it just isn't emotionally possible after you've crossed that line. I don't care how much you try to convince yourself it is. You are blinded my friend, and are not listening to anything anyone is saying. All you keep doing is crying that your question isn't being answered. Well, read the darn resposnes to your posts - the answer is right there in front of you a hundred times. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>So, one more time I will ask you this - if you love your wife and claim to protect her, why, for one milisecond, would you even consider opening up the possiblity of potentially putting her through all the pain you have, I'm certain, read about at this site? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] You are being selfish, to say the least. <p>Now that I have given what you want (to hear from a woman who has guarded her heart), and have tried to explain that it is wrong for the simple possibility that you cannot predict that you will not ever "lead with your heart" again with regards to her, I hope you can understand why it is wrong. If not, ask yourself what I have in the paragraph above - therein lies all your answers! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>In any event, I am done with this whole issue. You don't care to learn, or hear what others have to say. You are just here to argue your point. Well, point is, it's just not right - not if you love your wife the way you say you do.

OK, one last point... Is this your wife posting, by chance? If not, one day it will be...<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=016001

mmseekingadvice...<p>or mmseekingvalidation?<p>Yes, you can be friends w/ OW<p>...but you will be doing so at great risk to your self-esteem, your marriage and your wife's heart...<p>but you will do what you do. You will either be someone who can learn from those who have BEEN THERE... or you will have to be one who learns by the hard knocks of life.<p>I ask you to pray and let God lead you... <p>...there is NO place in a marriage for a third person. You WILL and HAVE already created a WALL between you and your wife... I am sure there are already things which you have told your FRIEND that you have NOT told your wife... <p>why don't you go to another board and seek your validation there... I'm sure there are those out there who would poopoo us and say "Sure, you can be friends. Your feelings are important. You shouldn't deny yourself the chance at a new love. You can help yourself. Feelings just are. It's not your fault. Your wife is just not meeting some need and this person is. You deserve that. What's more important you or your marriage? YOU, of course." <p>What is more important mm? your friendship or your marriage?<p>That is the question.<p>Cali<p> [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi, invite your wife to read this post. Then come back and tell us where you stand and where you see this relationship.

Maybe my posts have made this friendship seem more than it is. At least what it is now in the present, not the past.<p>The woman talks with me once a day -- not loving talk, but just regular talks. If we were in an office we would talk more frequently.<p>How is that an EA, and how is that coming between my wife and I?

[img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ASK YOUR WIFE! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

To tell you the truth, I've skimmed over much of this thread, but am responding to the last post by mm.I think you can answer your own question if you think about it. If it isn't a threat to your marriage I don't think you would have come to this forum to begin with. If you are completely comfortable and open with your wife about this relationship, then you don't need the viewpoints of the members of this forum, however, something drew you here....what was it?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mmseekingadvice:
<strong>
How is that an EA, and how is that coming between my wife and I?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I'll repeat what I asked before:<p>would you find it acceptable for your W to have a male friend whom she has, ahem, stroked in the past, professed her love for him, and wrote him love notes? Especially if she convinces you that there are no worries, because her male friend's heart is a rock??<p>Well?<p>Also, hand holding, kissing, and hair stroking are waaaaaaaaaaay beyond EA, buddy, and you know it...

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mmseekingadvice:
<strong><p>How is that an EA, and how is that coming between my wife and I?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
You're spending time thinking about her, your relationship with her and your past with her. You really need to wonder why this is becoming an issue? Another woman is at the forefront of your thoughts, another woman has the power to seduce you(you already said your staying just friends is predicated on her not making a move on you). Just a couple of weeks ago you gave this woman a v-day card. A day reserved for the expressing of love between romantic partners.
Are you really this blind or are you truly in love with this woman and trying to dig out any positive response to justify staying close to her...after all she just may come around eh?
My ex's A started just like this, just friends, I knew about her. Of course I didn't know about the kisses and hugs and secret talks, just like your wife. As far as I knew they were just friends...until of course she relented and gave him oral sex one night. The woman who was engaed and such a strong Christian she would never in a million years do something like that.
Come on, be honest with us all. You do want this girl, if you didn't you wouldn't be so bloody scared of losing this friendship. You sound like a man trying to hold onto his lover not his friend.

double post [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: Nduli2 ]</p>

I came to this board because as I was pulling away from the emotional feelings towards my friend I wondered how others did that. How long did it take to get over the ache in heart, etc.<p>I have found that now that I have some distance, I like this woman as a friend, not as the lover i once thought I wanted.<p>I know that no one believes this, but I am NOT interested in sex with her. I have a good sex life at home. And if sex was the issue, I could have sex with a woman who has approached me with an affair. <p>Of course my wife does not know about the past. But then there are many things that everyone on this board does not share with their spouse -- wether it is something they have talked about with their brother, same-sex friend, or anyone.<p>No ones life is an open book. Anyone who says that's so is a liar. Even if you talk openly there are thoughts we all have that we keep to ourselves. So I dont believe I am hurting my wife by not telling her how I once felt towards this woman.<p>Someone else mentioned that this woman had the power to seduce me. If that was the case, she would have done so when I was coming on full strength telling her that I loved her, all those things.<p>And she gave me a Valantie Card. And then I gave her one the next day before I left town.<p>I could see if this was an old girlfriend who I had a relationship with. But that is not the case.

I haven't written to you before, but I've been reading...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mmseekingadvice:
<strong>No ones life is an open book. Anyone who says that's so is a liar. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Are you calliing me a liar? Because let me tell you, MY LIFE IS AN OPEN BOOK! My H knows EVERYTHING ABOUT ME. So does everyone here. In the over 6000 posts I've made (both as new_beginning and Nyneve) I have spilled my guts.<p>Be careful MM. Secrets kill a marriage.

After careful consideration, I've decided that MM is right, and there is nothing wrong with this situation...<p>My only suggestion would be that you point your wife towards this site when she finds out about your "friendship", so she can get some help...<p>Good luck... I'm done posting on this topic (should have never started... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>AGG

Dear New Beginning:
He knows everything? I doubt it. We all harbor thoughts that would shock people. Come on. You share most everything, but there is a part of you, a part of everyone that will always remain a secret.<p>If not, where is the mystery that comes from getting to know someone.<p>I agree that some secrets are worse than others, but we all have secrets

Actually in my relationship things are an open book, I know things about my SO that no one else does and that could have ended our relationship before it began. I told him all about my past and my marriage. So, call me a liar if you like but I believe a relationship should be based on total honesty.
Seriously, if this OW came onto you, you would turn her down? In the heat of the moment you would do that despite saying you love her?
Tell your wife everything, you owe it to her, you already have been unfaithful.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mmseekingadvice:
<strong>Dear New Beginning:
He knows everything? I doubt it. We all harbor thoughts that would shock people. Come on. You share most everything, but there is a part of you, a part of everyone that will always remain a secret.<p></strong><hr></blockquote><p>He sure does. He knows about my childhood, my sexual abuse, my past problems with substances as a teen, my family issues, my divorce and what proceeded it, my sexual desires...all of them, my likes, my dislikes, my fantasies, my goals, everything and in return I get the same. Not everyone is dishonest with the people they love. Love to me is trust and if I don't trust you I can't love you.