Had an unusually good night with H tonight. Even though I suspected I may have LB'd, though thinking about it now, I'm not sure.<p>He showed up early, which threw me off guard. He normally rings and asks me when is a good time to come over. I've always told him he's welcome "whenever". Guess he finally felt comfortable enough to show up without calling first, which is good.<p>He was really excited to show me something new on his lap-top, so he brought that with him. We sat around for about an hour and "played" together. He showed me the database stuff that he does at work, which impressed me a lot (we're both geeks, I guess!). I made sure to thank him for showing it to me and tell him how impressed I was with his knowledge of the subject. My words came from my heart. <p>And since I had a pretty intense therapy session last night, I thought I would share some it with him. I reflected a bit on how much I regret the way I've treated him over the years. I was definitely not in a good place in my life - very depressed, very unable to take responsibility for my own actions and words and generally being a nightmare to deal with. I have realised, since D-day, how much cr*p I've put him through and really felt like I owed him an apology. Well, that apology came out tonight in a flood of tears and guilt. It felt like years of pent-up guilt and regret were pouring out of me. I spoke calmly and just apologised for everything I've done to him and the way I treated him. He sat and listened. I asked him if he could find it in his heart to forgive me. He said yes. He also said that he definitely noticed that I've made some good changes in me and he was pleased about that. I asked him if he trusted those changes and he said, "it's not that I don't trust them, but after so many years of you being a certain way, it's hard for me to not expect the old you to come out". I told him that I totally understand that and promised him the old me was gone. I then told him that I wished there was something I could do to make it up to him, but I know it's not a case of "you've bought me lunch, now I have to buy you lunch". He sort of laughed and agreed. I asked him if it made him uncomfortable when I told him I loved him and he said no. Which is good, because I always tell him I love him when he leaves. <p>We sort of left the conversation at that. I asked him for a hug and thanked him for listening to me. Then off to dinner. We ate, talked, laughed, shared gossip and had a great time. We went to a coffee shop after dinner and talked and laughed some more. He was very relaxed; maybe more so than usual. <p>Got home and watched a bit of TV together. He was very tired and sniffly and so decided to go home. As he walked out the door, he turned around and asked if I wanted a hug. I nodded and he gave me one, which was lovely. Then I probably LB'd and asked if he was still "mixed up". He yes, definitely. I asked (again!) if he would ever feel comfortable spending the night again and he said "yes, I'm sure I will". I told him the offer was there whenever he was ready. No pressure. He smiled at me and left and told me to have a good time tomorrow night. (I'm going out with our mutual friends. He was invited, but OW is coming down to his house this weekend and our friends would probably cut her head off if she stepped foot in the pub. He is very aware of this, as well). <p>All in all, I feel okay. He seemed to be very chilled out and relaxed and happy after our talk. I had tried not to cry, but just couldn't help it. I do know that I feel so much better for being able to apologise, from my heart. I know I can't change the past, but I think it's important that I recognise how destructive I was in our M and to each of us, individually. <p>My question is, is it a LB to show regret for the past? Did I LB by telling him I know and feel guilt for the things I've done and said?<p>Any input would be much appreciated. Bramblerose, my wise sage, where *are* you? <p>Hope everyone is well!
love and hugs to all,
VE<p>[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: venusenvy ]</p>

Hi VE,<p>I think the stuff about the past was OK. But you have to quit asking him about his confusion and the future. Your saying no pressure, only makes it look more like pressure. Dont ask him again to spend the nigt or if he will be comfrotable to spend the night. That is pressure and you have to let it happen as it happens instead of continuing to ask about it OK? No expectaions. <p>I know how hard it is to be patient, how crazy it makes you to wait on their timetable. But its the only way. otherwise you will push him away.

VE,Just my opinion...I have loads of sales experience.. and I think... if you talk about ahppy and good stuff.. and do not even ask him about being confused you will be better off... therefore... you are not REMINDING him.. that he is confused... or confirming it or getting him thinking it, by saying it outload... ask him questions that you know will get positives... like I really had fun tonight, did you, when you know he did... his saying it outload... confirms it in his mind when he hears it outload and thinks about it... even unconsciously... have him sell himself... on you and both of you together by the positives you share... do not express your self doubt.. <p>My H sd... BE CONFIDENT... the insecure me I became after the a was not to his liking, I was always confident in the past.. be confident of his love and that he will return to you... do not let him know you waver... do not say... will you ever spend night again .. let it happen when it does.. seduce him into it.... K? I bet the ow, does not ask him that like he is going to turn her down, nor would you ask that of someone you were trying to win in a dating situation... be you!<p>You are a wonderful, smart , sexy and beautiful woman... now say that to yourself 50 times a day... and say it to him too.. why would he ever leave you... and what op could live up to you the love of his life... now repeat that...<p>Do not feel so low... I hate to hear that... but I have been there.. and I could go there any minute... and cry.. but the better you feel about you and respect yourself.. the better he will feel and the more he will respect you...<p>being unsure of yourself is not at all attractive to a man... sure this is how cheating h's make us loving wives feel...<p>I am not trying to be too tough... not really my style.. but I see you hurting... go out and rent bridget jones diary... it made me laught... I loved it...<p>she knew when a man was treating her bad... and knew she deserved better, and moved on... that is the attitude that attracts///
men!<p>I think we should all be sorry about our part in the marriage that could of been better.. but it is not our faults our h's or ws's did this... adultery is not ok...him being with another woman is not ok...<p>But, you are willing to accept your part in the marriage that allowed the affair to be something that was an option... right.. I have started telling my h this... he thinks this is quite big of me... but I do not accept responsibility for what he has done... NO NO NO.<p>That is his job.<p>I knowe you know this.<p>Anyway. I know how much it hurts.. I am definitely not there and I have lb'ed all over the pla ce.. you haven't done that..<p>I do not think you lb'd at all.. <p>but please take a look at you, and appreciate yourself more.. and do not appear to him as weak or scared or needy.. this is unattractive.. I know you feel this way... and I do it all the time.... I ask my h, are you coming home yet?<p>I know this is not really what I should say... or is it? who knows... but anyway... <p>Act happy, be you, be proud of you, and let him know it.. that is who he fell in love with.. I think he is testing the waters.. but I hate to see your part in your post.. that says I am not the old me anymore... or something like that... I know you are the same persom, be that wonderful person.. but show him you have learned ho w to be a better partner.. but that you need him to do that too.. the marriage would not be where it is, without his contribution to the problems... don't you hate when they don't see that...?<p>My H has so much trouble seeing that it makes me ill...<p>seriously ill. anyway, hugs and prayers to you.. all of your posts i have read make my heart go out to you... I am here on the sidelines cheerleading for you, I believe he will come back... just show him how great you are... with CONFIDENCE!<p>Hugs, RMM,... aka honey

Venus, I love your posts...I really do! So go ahead and post in recovery too! That's how I found you this time!<p>I think you did absolutely wonderfully on your date. I think talking honestly from your heart to him about your changes is a very good thing...and if there are a few tears...well there is no sin in emotion.<p>A heart-felt apology for past actions, especially one freely given is priceless.<p>And maybe the old you isn't completely gone...just in a stage of metamorphis. That's how I felt. Just sort of stripped off some layers (more like nasty old callouses) that had built up over the years.<p>As far as wanting reassurance for the future....maybe give that a rest right now...it is a pressure...or is probably percieved as such.<p>As far as his confusion...eventually he will probably bring that up..then be the listener. Wait for that.<p>When we had gotten to this stage...almost a year ago..we actually did quite well...and the biggest problem is that it did become too comfortable for him. After all, he got the best of both worlds.<p>But, when I did go to plan B...that's when he realized that his confusion had to end...doesn't sound like you are there yet. When your bank drains down, you may want to consider Plan B..totally. But until then..you've got the plan A down to a science!<p>You da woman!
T

Hey Venus ~<p>I had this big long reply typed up, but the system managed to eat it up. And this is the ONE time that I didn't copy it to my clipboard before hitting submit. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <sigh> <p>Bleah.<p>I'll be back to respond tomorrow if I get a chance. Its 1am here, and I neeeeeeeeeeeed sleep.

VE---<p>In Michelle Weiner Davis' book "Divorce Remedy" one of the suggestions (strong suggestions) is for the BS to not try to take stock...<p>That is don't ask the type of questions you are asking...don't say "I love you" all of this puts more pressure on the WS--even though it is not what is intended.<p>As she says, the BS knows you love them...your H knows he is welcome to stay the night...by keeping up the pressure it actually has a reverse effect...<p>I don't know---just one opinion I guess, which is MWD's....if you haven't read her book it may be worthwhile...she is at: www.divorcebusting.com<p>Keep up the good work...<p>E

lora you're absolutely right. I *know* that I shouldn't be asking these things, but sometimes I feel like he's just going along, not even thinking about what he's doing. Which he probably is. I feel like sometimes I need to remind him that I'm still standing here in the wings waiting for an answer or some closure or something. I also feel like if I don't remind him that the offer to spend the night is still open, he will assume it isn't. Guess I need to stop second-guessing him and just be the Plan A Goddess that I am. Thanks for your input, love!<p>restoringmymarriage Thanks for you input, as well. You're right on so many counts and your advice is good - thanks for your thoughts!<p>Twyla Again, more wise words! Thanks! As many pointed out, I need to really zip it when it comes to questions about his confusion and spending the night. I guess my biggest fear is he's just paying me lip-service. Telling me what I want to hear and not being honest with me. Yuk. Plan B is being thought about by me daily. Unfortunately, there are some ugly circumstances which make me think it's not a good idea. I won't go into details, but it could work very much against me, considering I'm living in a country I'm not originally from. 'Nuff said on that one.<p>Bramblerose Don't you just hate when that happens! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] I look forward to your thoughts, my dear. As always!<p>Elad Funnily enough, I've started reading Divorce Remedy. It's a tough one, for me. When I first started it, I skimmed through and thought to myself, "yeah, I'm already doing that...yadda yadda". Then I stopped and figured I should start over with a big pink highlighter and really read what was there. And when I'm done, I should read it again. Cheers!<p>H is back to sending me emails today - asked me if I want a new computer, which is weird because there is nothing wrong with the one I have. (I call them "guilt presents") He also spoke last night about buying me a car. Doesn't really sound like a man who wants a divorce, does it?<p>And I'm definitely taking care of myself. After d-day, I wrote out a few goals for my life. I'm not yet allowed to work in this country, but I'm allowed to study. Trying to get my butt back into school is a huge hurdle I need to overcome (fears suck!). Out of the three major goals I wrote down, I've reached two. I got my drivers license for this country and I've lost nearly 60lbs. Pretty big things, really. Always been scared to death to drive over here and we all know how hard it is to lose weight. Both of those things were easy peasy. Now for the 3rd goal. . . back to school!!!!<p>love,
VE

V,
I laughed out loud when I read about the computer and car. When we were at this point, he offered to buy a house and rent it to me so I could always be there for him...BIG GUILT!<p>Going back to school! How neat! What do you think you'd like to study? After conquering the weight loss and driving, I have a feeling you'll sail throught in a snap! <p>What are your fears about returning to school?
T

Hi Twyla, <p>sorry it took me so long to get back to this! Had a hectic weekend - lots of fun and barely a thought for my weird marriage and WH. Just the way I like it!<p>Anyway, school....I would like to go back and study web design and multi-media. I've been into computers for quite a few years now and am extremely creative so it seems like a logical step for me. I also pick up on things quite quickly and find it's easy to even teach myself certain programmes. The fears lie in my ability (or lack of) to stick to things at the moment. I've always had a hard time "finishing" things and haven't stepped foot in a classroom for many, many years. Just wondering if I could actually stick with it, but I know I won't know until I try. It's scary, but I know I need to do it. <p>Anyway, I think I need to go back and search for some of your posts to get your story. You referred to "when we were at this point" but I'm not sure if that means you're in recovery or what. <p>cheers!
VE