Okay, so now I find out that H is a regular at the strip clubs. I knew he went a few times about 10 years ago. I thought he had stopped. Found that he took some customers their a few times about 6 years ago. Noticed a debit charge at one of these places in February. I asked if he was going to these places again. He said he hadn't been in YEARS. I produce bank statement and he STILL tries to deny (name of club does not suggest its real function!) Told him I already confirmed it in yellow pages (showclub). Anyway, find out that he has been going regularly w/our neighbor (and who knows who else) for last year. Also, another single friend of his brought a woman to our house one night about 8 months ago. I thought some of her conversation was odd and she was all over his friend. Find out that this woman is a stripper that friend met at one of these clubs. What friend and stripper do is none of my business, my concern is that H and friend are very close and H was most likely there when friend met stripper......who did H meet?<P>What am I dealing w/here? Why the need for these places? Why continue to sneak and go? He would have a FIT if I frequented places like that, how come its okay for him? What gives?<P>Also, I can't reveal my source to him, so I'm trying to think of best way to approach this w/him w/o divulging source. This bugs me too because I don't like secrets. Any thoughts?

Your story sounds very much like mine. My husband has gone over the years many times and has promised to never go again. I just found out that he went a couple of times recently while on a buisness trip. I over heard him telling some friends. I was devastated because I felt like I was taken for a fool again. His attitude is "what the wife dont know wont hurt her" He said he knew how much it bothers me but he is only sympathetic when he gets caught. I dont know what to do anymore. I feel horrible about myself. He says our sex life is great he still thinks Im beautiful and he will never go again. I think he only says what I want to hear. I dont know what to do. He has lied so much and Im afraid to be taken again. I have come very close to leaving but I have 3 sons to consider. I dont know if this should be grounds for divorce but I feel like this marriage is slowly dying. I trully know what you are going thru. You are not alone.

Sometimes its just lack of guts. If his friends are going he may not have the courage to say no he doesn't want to go. You all know how a guys ego can be. Same with the business deal, if good customers wnat to go h maybe stuck if he has no guts to say no.

My husband frequents strip joints too. The girl that he slept with in March was a stripper but was hired to perform at a PBA (Police Union) convention.<P>After I found out about their one night together, she claimed that she was pregnant. We still don't know if she is or not or if it is my husband's. The baby (if there is one) is due in Dec. <P>My husband admitted in counseling that he stills goes. He knew that it bothered me, but was descreet about it.<P>Well I knew all along that he was going. I know that he is the type of guy who doesn't want to look bad in front of his friends. But now I can't stop wondering if he took home any other strippers.<P>I think they should ban those strip joints. Why do woman feel like a man will only like them if they take their clothes off?<P><BR>

Aha! A thread I can relate to in a strong way.<P>My H bartends at a strip club. Yes, indeedy, we've had some problems as a result. I'm an open-minded person, but noooooo, I don't particularly like (AT ALL) him working at a strip club. We've had to make compromises to call a truce on it--I pop in occasionally, and when he goes out after work with co-workers for breakfast or to shoot pool, this does NOT include any strippers. Have I snooped? Sure. Will I again? Absolutely. Do I trust him in what I consider "normal situations?" Unequivocably yes. Do I trust the girls? Hell no, even if they're not physically attracted to my H, and I'll bet many of them are, there's also the free-drink-or-special-favor-factor they think might be offered. Do I find my H's reactions amid the constant nudity acceptable to me? Yes. Does the idea STILL bother me? Yep.<P>The reason he's still there? His tips are great. (He wants to open his own bar someday, thank god it won't be a strip club.)<P>ANYway...not all strip clubs are alike. Some are seedy. Some are classy. Most have bouncers and strict policies that the men are not allowed to touch. The girls are working for tips--it's a job; when their shift is up they go home. Many of the girls are actually lesbians, or bi-sexual, and many have a low opinion of men--take 'em for the money, that's all they're good for. There are the exceptions...I hear about the ones who will screw anybody (pardon the bluntness), and certainly try to. I've had them pointed out, and whew, they're nasty looking. <P>I would suggest you join your H at one of these clubs, whether it's agreed upon in advance or you make an unscheduled appearance. If you DO this, remain pleasant. Feel free to comment as you wish, but I think if any progress whatsoever in understanding each other and communicating is going to be made, you need to remain pleasant. Watch his reactions carefully; listen to all exchanges. It sounds as if your H WILL continue going...find out for yourself what's going on when he does. <P>You probably feel disgusted at the idea, but think of it like an office party he's required to attend that really won't be any fun for you, but would you let him go by himself? You're a couple, and I'm sorry, I DO feel even if a couple retains separate interests, which is healthy, NO interest should include an absolute NON-participation EVER by the spouse. Period.<P>------------------<BR>Laura<P>"I cannot care a little for you. I love you only just enough to love you all the way."~~Rod McKuen<BR>

When I knew he went 10 years ago, he DID make it sound like it was his friends' idea each time. Over the years, I have come to learn what a "people-pleaser" he is, so back then, his friends were probably very influential in his initial decision to join them. However, we've lived in two states since then and his group of friends of course has changed, and he STILL goes. So while, others may want to go, I think HE is initiating a lot of it.<P>I must admit, I was very naive about these places until 5 years ago (don't know why this conversation sticks w/me). We were watching a tv movie or something about these clubs and saw something about a lap(?) dance. I casually asked if he had ever paid for one of those. And he said yes! I was floored! Silly me...I had always envisioned it like "entertainment", girls on stage, men at bar/tables....much distance in between. (And I'm from a MAJOR metropolitan city! ) I suppose I feel a form of betrayal because while he had my consent to attend w/his friends, I thought he would have had more self-control and respect for me. Especially considering how he reacted when he found out that they hired a stripper for my bridal shower! Just because you go to these places doesn't mean you have to buy a personal dance, etc., does it? That ole' blind trust again, huh?<P>So Lucks, you can probably imagine that I would have a hard time joining him on one of these excursions. Besides my own personal objections, H doesn't tell me when he's going....since the lap dance revelation, he no longer has my consent. <P>Coupled w/his multiple affairs, I fiercely resent his participation in this whole scene. I tend to think he justifies it like caron's H, "what she doesn't know...." So much for honesty and trust.

Wow. I'm sorry..."and multiple affairs." I hadn't read your profile until now.<P>Were any of H's affairs with strippers?<P>I still strongly recommend you GO to the strip club, some night your instinct tells you he's going. That is, if you want to really see what's going on. It could be the start of more open communication between you two (probably beginning as an argument, but maybe some good will come of it) or what ends up making your decision to leave.<P>Yes, there are lap dances, there are couch dances, there are "tooter girls" (sort of waitresses that sell test tubes of shots that either the customer OR the tooter girl can drink, usually in a sexy way). There is "perverts' row" (table with chairs that surround the stage). Customers are enticed to buy dances AND drinks for the girls.<P>Men can spend small fortunes in strip clubs. The expenditure itself could wind up being an extreme lovebuster--it was not agreed upon by both in the relationship.<P>I don't mean to exhaust the issue, but it really concerns me for you that your H has this attitude..."what the wife doesn't know." If he goes to clubs, and wouldn't take you with him (even if you DID ask), knows you hate it and continues to do it anyway without curbing or compromising in regard for your feelings...I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. <P>Tackle this problem as soon as you can. Good luck!<P>------------------<BR>Laura<P>"I cannot care a little for you. I love you only just enough to love you all the way."~~Rod McKuen<BR>

Lucks,<BR>Thanks for the inside scoop! Thanks for also understanding my dilemma. No, the affairs were not w/strippers (one co-worker, one met through a pro football player-friend, one a waitress at his gym) As you can also guess, at this point, I don't know WHAT he else he has done w/the strippers.<P>So, considering my situation, I'm not way off base for feeling such dislike for these excursions?<P>This is just one of many issues that he and I need to deal with. But like most any thing else, the conflict-avoider in him will not. He would rather lead me to believe that he does not go...and sneak to get there.<P>You're right, the financial side is a huge LB for me. My mom has mentioned to me about the money spent at these places, but I hadn't given it a second thought because I wasn't aware of the frequency. (Why don't I listen more to my MOM...she was the one who thought all expenses-paid trip to Vegas w/pro football player friend was suspect...I just thought, heck, he has the money to pay and I know H doesn't, so enjoy! Little did I know, MissAnn, was also going along!) Anyway, I have always managed our household finances, but when I worked, we had enough "discretionary" income to cover frivolous spending. Now that I am home, I watch our pennies closely, and we have battled over his irresponsible/unaccountable spending. Some weeks, he would make a $300 ATM withdrawal on Thursday night and have nothing left on Saturday and not be able to account for it. This has happened too frequently to chalk up as just occasional splurging. Things are starting to make some sense now in the financial arena. To think that we have needlessly "battled" over this when he was just "hiding" the truth. <P>What's sad is that this seems so simple to fix...don't go. Instead, he sneaks over there and does who knows what, spends money that creates undue financial hardship and then lies about it.<P>How do I approach him w/my new knowledge of his visits w/o divulging my source, yet knowing he will deny it w/o any proof?<BR>

I wish I had an answer for proving if H still goes to these places while out of town. You see, his company pays for it. Or another client or co-worker puts it on his credit card and its all written off. There is no way for me to find out. My H said if he had to pay for it he would not go. So I guess since its the companies money there are no such things as "morals" He can get away with murder. He could have an affair I would never find out. The only way I found out this time was because he was talking to freinds in our house and I overheard him. He will just cover his tracks better next time. <P>I wish I could give some great advice to you Enlightened. As far as proving he still goes without proof in "black and white" he will deny, deny, deny. When I heard my husband give his freinds his sleezy details about his visit I confronted him an hour later and he said I was hearing things..I didnt know what I was taking about and I was paranoid. So much for proof...<BR>

I can understand everyone's apprehension about exotic dance bars (aka strip clubs) They're probabably the oldest form of pornography. Remember the days before photos and movies? ;-)<BR>In short, its all a fantasy.<BR>The places where strippers date men or have affairs are illegal and unless the owners of the club are stupid they don't want that happening either. We have a Lingerie Shop near us where the girls were doing more than modeling for as much as $400 to give hand jobs and BJs. Shows how stupid some guys are but also how much men look for that type of sex and can't find it in their marriage.<BR>Meanwhile across the street is a classy place that has very strict rules and policies no touching (even for couch dances) And guess which ones the neighbors complain about? The main classy club because the girls are totally nude but no alcohol is served. One person in the town gov. even said it's be better if they served alchol so the men wouldn't go to look just for drinks huh??<BR>Anyway, why do men act differently about women seeing male strippers (go to a show for women and then a show for men -you'll see a big difference in behavior. Plus, I have encountered more instances where women did get involved with the male stripper. That's not too surprising women tend to look for a relationship with sex men sometimes just want to look and have nothing else.<BR>If your husbands are frequenting these clubs and all, they may have a problem. But something else is probably missing in your mariage too. Perhaps, as with me, my wife never flirts, when we had sex she hated the lights on, lingerie, or anything visual. Now she doesn't even want sex.<BR>I confess it the club can be a place to sublimate those feelings and needs I have. The girls laugh and smile something that is becoming rarer these days (just look at the women in the malls they rearely smile anymore!) Also, I knew that I wouldn't or couln't cheat there and the girls wouldn't let me if I tried. I don't know when most of them have time for a life they travel, they work all night for hours and sleep mostly during the day. Then many of them have to fit in school or kids or some kind of life. If someone's having an affair with a stripper she probably is a lousey one! Plus as Lucks says many are lesbians. Or what she left out simply exhibitionists who are looking for a safe way to show off without worry about sex or involvement.<BR>In the end for most men this stuff is fantasy and just a form of pornography. Actually they'll probably go out of business once we have really good 3d holographics.<BR>One last and really controversial point, but has anyone noticed that these places are really the last of the men's clubs. All other men's groups where men can just get away from women are now required by laws to allow womwen equal participation. Compare that to the number of strictly women's clubs or groups. Sure there are girls there but they're not really there if you understand what I mean. <BR>

I understand what you are saying Kam about it being a fantasy but it still hurts because I thought I was his fantasy. I am not inhibited at all in the bedroom. I have stripped for him and I wasnt afraid to take off my clothes. I have done many unmentionable things in the bedroom for him and some are very imbarressing but I did them knowing it would turn him on. I guess I feel kinda used because I gave alot of myself and I dont think it was appreciated. I have fantasies too but I dont go acting on them out of respect for my marriage. I forgave him the first 4 times he was acting out his "fantasy" but now I just cant seem to forgive this one.

Fortunately I don't think my H is into porn. He like natural looking women and hates breast enlargements, etc. Still he has gone to strip bars occasionally. If it was for a bachelor party, I didn't really care although I found it distasteful.<P>Then occasionally when he would go out with the guys, I guess I knew they went there sometimes, but saw it as a guy thing, something that he went along with rather than initiated. I believe that to be true.<P>However, after the affair, I have no tolerence for it. And the first time (6 months post discovery) he went out with some old friends who were in from out of town for a meeting he went to one and even used dollar bills. He made sure I was comfortable about him going out and assured me he would not go near anywhere he thought "she" could possibly be...but I didn't think to say I was uncomfortable with a strip bar. One would think he could figure that much out. Well, they were shooting pool and one friend suggested...and he went like a sheep. At least he didn't lie when I asked where they went. Maybe he didn't think it was a big deal.<P>Well, we had a talk. Instead of imposing my own morals, I pointed out the incongruency of his own morals and going to a strip club. I asked how he would feel if his dad saw him, other men he respected...most of all his daughters. I then pointed out that falling for peer pressure was not being an example...it was playing to the lowest commen denominator. Why sink the the lowest morals in the group...why not be a man of integrity and take a stand? I also said morals are not something you can take a vacation from and he had to decide for himself what kind of character he wanted.<P>I think it worked. Whining or telling how it made me feel would not have worked. He wouldn't have gotten it, or it would not have help up to peer pressure.<P>But for the first time he absolutely agreed not to ever go into one again. And although who really knows, except for this brief affair, he has been a man of his word.<P>I know this could only work because he himself has no great desire (at least I don't think he has) and I spun it enough that he felt more in control of his own decision. <P>Maybe this can help someone a little.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13