Now, looking back, I realize that one of my x-H's primary ENs was "respect" (a form of admiration). I did my best to respect him, but to be perfectly honest I didn't entirely trust him. It was a mistrust of the kind that I doubted he would always make the best choices for US. I questioned if he was someone that would be there for me in a tough situation. In that aspect, I didn't "trust" him. <p>And because of my lack of trust, I now see, to a degree, I didn't respect him either. I did respect him as a person, but not intimately.<p>I'm now thinking that respect doesn't come without trusting someone. How could you trust someone yet not respect them? Is my thinking straight on this? <p>So for you BS's out there, I know that because of the A your trust of the WS has been breached. So do you still fully respect them?<p>Jo<p>[ March 02, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Great question! Thanks for this topic.<p>I've grappled with this too. In my case my SO only lies about his porn use and he's seeking assistance on all fronts with that problem. He considers his use an addiction because he couldn't stop it even when HE chose to. I respect his efforts to overcome this and make his own choices. <p>I see his lies as a part of the addiction. The lies are still very frustrating, hurtful and upsetting to me. I think I respect him as a man and as a partner. HOWEVER, I don't trust him with regards to the most intimate and personal part of our relationship. I sometimes wonder who the real man is and if I truly love him.<p>I too would like to hear how others who've been betrayed deal with this.

Well, I'll take a stab a this..
I have absolutely no trust for SO, but I do respect him for taking care of my daughter (not his) and his child even when he said he wasn't ready to have kids. He always made sure financially everything was taken care of, unfortunately the money sometimes came from OW. He has said in a way I should be thankful that they gave him the money otherwise somethings we would have gone without (I guess that line goes under most ridiculous things WS has ever said right?) Anyway from 6mths preg till my son was 10mths old I didn't work, and never wanted for anything, so for that I respect him, in that aspect he was being a good man. At least that's how he feels about it, I kinda agree, but never let him think that just because he did, doesn't mean he was entitled to the affairs. He's getting it.

jo, very interesting question, I think yes, while they can be related notions, they are very very different things. This is a wonderful question, one I have thought about in the past, and could write several pages on (in terms of human behaviour), but don't really have the time. But will make some brief comments.<p>Trust is a funny notion, on the one hand you do not (nor should you) ever trust anything but God. Why, cause humans are imperfect, and if you trust completely you trust an imperfect vessel, and therein lies a vulnerability to satans influence. Unconditional trust is essentially the sin of pride, that you are astute enough to assess when to trust and when not to trust....that would require perfection on our part, and that is impossible. The same argument applies to atheists, recognizing no one is astute enough to trust 100%.<p>Respect OTOH, has nothing to do with trust. You respect everyone as one of God's children, you respect their humanity, you do not judge, and how we are to be our brothers keeper is clearly spelled out. (This has nothing to do with behavioural choices, we still react to those who are hurtful in society defensively, lock em up, restrict their choices, shun em, etc.).<p>Marriage is a funny animal, it is situation requiring maximum trust to achieve bonding (IMO), but even there there are limits, cause you do not put the marriage ahead of God, and we are commanded to turn away from our spouse if they try to seperate us from God. This implies if we assess we are in such a circumstance, and our spouse says trust me, we cannot do so. But otherwise yes, you want (and should) trust your spouse the rest of the time, (why I don't fully agree with rules of protection), leaveing yourself vulnerable to injury by them (and why multiple affairs end marriage, you can never trust your spouse, but IMO, even one is enough most of the time). However, you can still respect the spouse for the many good qualities they may have, just accepting that you cannot be married to them, cause they are untrustworthy in a marital way (for you, in this particular pairbond)....but they may be solid as a rock as an employee, or on the batttlefield, or watching the cash register, in many ways.... this is the hardest thing to accept, that you can like, respect, even love (in some ways) a spouse, but recognize you can never trust them in the way required by oneflesh. NOte... you can still be married, you will just not be in-love, so many accept that and just negotiate a contract with their spouse, this is what MB essentially does (and even the Harleys tell you they cannot make anyone be in-love, or gaurantee to rebuild trust). Also trust is not about affairs, infidelity is a sympton of trust not being present in a marriage, it can also take the form of emotional neglect, abuse, etc.<p>[ March 02, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

I have always respected my H's accomplishments--I was there for all of his special flights, for his first flights, last flights, final flights. I was there for every major accomplishment in his career. <p>I respected the way he kept going even tho he messed up royally in both his professional and personal lives. He has a strong work ethic, he worked hard around the house and with the kids. In most cases, he was caring and kind.<p>However, I don't respect how he treated me throughout our marriage--he was downright cruel and vindictive to me in many situations--especially when he was having affairs. He never cared about my emotional well-being. It was heart-wrenching.<p>I don't respect when he would drink and become vulgar and rude. I don't respect the sexual demands he made of me. Many times he humiliated me and the kids.<p>I don't respect how he often treated animals.<p>It is strang...he has a very kind, concerned side. At times I thought I couldn't ask for a better husband. Then at other times he was so cruel. <p>I don't respect that he couldn't control his temper, and he always had to be right.<p>I still love the kind, caring man--but I never want to be around the other side ever again.

While they are different qualities separate they each lose strength. Together, respect and trust create a strong bond that can overcome many obstacles. <p>I respect a position such as a manager at work but if that person is not doing their job, I do not respect or trust them as a person. <p>Make sense?<p>L.

The respect went down the drain along with the trust. The very qualities that inspired my admiration have been replaced by their counterparts:<p>Trustworthy, Honest, God-fearing, Honorable, Dependable, Family-oriented, Strong, Protecting, Straightforward, Intelligent, Articulate<p>have disappeared, and now he is:<p>Untrustworthy, Dishonest, God-blaming, Dishonorable, Self-oriented, Weak, Predatory, Manipulative, Foolish, Nonsensical<p>The man I respected no longer exists. Maybe he only existed in my mind in the first place. Maybe it was all a facade carefully crafted to finally land a girl "good to the bone", as he has referred to me, whom he could trust, who would be faithful and true.<p>The only things I can honestly compliment him on now are his looks, his sexual skills, his sense of humor, his nice voice. But none of these things are what attracted me to him. It was the first list that attracted me to him and enabled me to feel safe and confident about entrusting my life to him by marrying him and entrusting my children's lives to him by having children by him.<p>Mostly I feel sorry for him for being an even greater fool than I. As I once heard someone say, "I guess he couldn't handle the prosperity."<p>[ March 02, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

right now i dont respect him for what he has done to us. i lost that the moment i found out. maybe when he gets the counseling needed to overcome the problems he has with sharing his emotions, and takes full responsibility for his actions and my pain, maybe then and only then will i start to respect him again. i doubt i will ever trust him though.

No, I don't respect my WH anymore, and haven't for awhile, what he let happen to our marriage and our family does not deserve any respect.<p>He failed in his vows and his commitment to our marriage and our family.<p>Less then a month before D day he promised my mother yet again that he would take care of me the rest of my life, on the day that my mother told me that I lost what little respect I had for my WH.<p>Simply because I have no respect, I have not trust! Each would take a long time to rebuild for me. WH doesn't care what it is that I think of him as a person. And has told me this many times.
Dawn [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ March 02, 2002: Message edited by: daybreak ]</p>

I don't know...I respect the person who is my "real" husband...not the one that is in the fog doing things my H would never do. I respect hte man that he can be once again. If he comes home and tries, I believe I will respect that he finally made the right decision, one that was very hard for him. I think if he can see the pain he has caused, that deserves respect...respect is something I feel that you have for someone for what they are or can be...trust is something of yourself the you give someone. We respect the President...(some of us)but do we always trust him? We respect the degree that our doctor has, but do we always trust thir diag...if we did we wouldn't get 2nd opinions...Just a thought.

Hmmm... a very interesting thread. After being blindsided by my H's affair, I don't know if I will ever let myself be vulnerable enough to trust him. He is remorseful and has said all the "right " things, BUT my ability to ever trust another human being has probably been shattered. <p>Respect? Sadly, [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] , No. I respected the man I fell in love with, who served his country, loved his children and put his trust in God. That man does not exist anymore. I cannot respect a man who would throw away his W and 3 sons for the thrill of casual sex with a stranger.<p>We are trying to rebuild our marriage, but I mourn the loss of those feelings: trust and respect. I can forgive him and love him, but we are working on a new relationship, the old one is gone forever... [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

Jo,
That is a really good question.
I've always trusted and respected him professionally..even through the A, there was never a doubt in my mind that he would my first choice for patient referrals.<p>When I think about it, I had lost respect for him as a person before I even knew about the A. He would back down from personal problems (as would I, but not to the same degree)and would also rely on others to cover for him..would overextend himself and then not come through on his committments.<p>Since the A, and recovering together, I have seen strides he's made towards being responsible for his problems...and for stepping up to the plate on our issues instead of hiding his head in the sand. Not an easy task, changing your ways when you're 61. So my respect for him right now is higher than it has ever been. I'm very proud of him.<p>Trust....well our trust in each other has built up tremendously..but I still think he would say "I don't know, or I don't remember" or maybe even lie if he thought it would protect us..or me from any more hurt. I think he grasps the importance of total honesty, but I think he puts more value on not hurting someone. <p>Hmmmm....might be a good discussion.<p>You come up with some real puzzlers.
T

I think that there are 2 different kinds of respect. There is the respect that is earned when one behaves in a certain way, and there is the respect that you automatically offer to all people by not being mean to them. <p>I respect my XH and would not throw a brick through his window or put my muddy feet on his white carpet.<p>I do not have any respect for him because of his behavior. <p>The behavior respect is so intertwined with trust that I can't figure out how to seperate them. I couldn't imagine trusting him as far as I could throw him because of the way he has/does behave. <p>On the other hand, no matter what kind of pig pervert he is I would never stab him with the big knife in my kitchen.... although I might dream about it....<p>Elizabeth

Jo,<p>I don't know if I fully respect her, because she has revealed a terrible weakness that she sometimes cannot control. I don't fully trust her anymore either, but Dr. Harley says that you should never fully trust your spouse anyway.<p>I think, though, I have gained a quiet acceptance. An acceptance that she is a flawed human - just like the rest of us - and that she is willing to recognize those flaws and try to deal with them together.<p>-HD

I've read all these responses and see that many agree that *facets* of "Respect" and "Trust" are closely intertwined. One cannot exists without the other.<p>In examining what my part was in the demise of our marriage, I've come to the conclusion I never got over the mis-trust I harbored from my H's first A, or the first time he left me. A part of me never fully regained trust in him to be the husband I needed, and because of that, my respect (admiration) of him was not what he needed. <p>With all my heart I NEVER in a million years thought he would do THIS again, I trusted he wouldn't. He convinced me he wouldn't by his actions, not words. My trust issues with him were not about infidelity as much as they were about behaving like a mature responsible married adult, making adult decisions and taking responsibility for those decisions. I guess those two types of trust are linked, that immaturity plays a part in infidelity.<p>I'm rambling. I'm just trying to find nuetral ground for me by exploring what my part was in this mess. I know I failed in other areas, but I believe this is the most significant, and caused my H unhappiness thru an unmet need (Admiration / Respect). <p>Thanks for listening, and if anyone else has anything to offer, I'd love to hear it.<p>Jo

So, Jo, are you considering the idea that your lingering mistrust and resulting lack of admiration caused H to seek admiration from OW?

Maybe so, but that makes me wonder. What would you have done differently, considering his need for admiration, and considering that your really did mistrust him? Would you have pretended admiration even though you didn't feel it? Would you have talked more with H about your feelings and his need? Would you have shown more admiration for him in those areas that you did respect him for? Would you have decided that you did not trust/respect him and could not fulfill this particular need. Therefore you should not stay married to him? In retrospect, during the time following H's first A, did he do things that deserved your continued mistrust or was he OK , at least until the second A?<p>Please don't over analyze this. You did your best with a difficult situation. It is possible that you could have done EVERYTHING right, and H would still have made the choices he did because the problem is him, not you.<p>Take care, Estes

Jo and Estes,<p>I've been thinking the same thing, that eventually my loss of admiration for my H will give him an excuse to seek it elsewhere, i.e. another A, especially if he doesn't get real about his responsibility for what he did and get help for his issues.<p>I treat him with respect, but I'm sure that when I look at him, the absence of the light of admiration from my eyes is apparent if he's looking for it. I'm a very transparent person and not good at faking anything. The fact that I've been able to keep my feelings to myself around him is nothing short of amazing to me and that I can be physically intimate with him when I feel a thousand miles away emotionally. I don't know how I do this because I've never been able to before.<p>If he hasn't already, he will probably notice the absence of compliments about character qualities. I think I would just choke on it if I tried.<p>However, I do admire the WS here who have done the hard work of facing themselves and owning what they did, especially trying to get into the mind and heart of the BS to understand and empathize, and then working to gain insight into how they allowed it to happen and how to fix it and learn how to protect their M. I can respect that, so maybe IF my H EVER does that, I might feel the same way toward him. It would at least show a strength of character that I haven't seen in quite some time from him.<p>[ March 04, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>