Hey guys,<p>I have just watched a show wherein a BS so poignantly expressed the feelings she had being betrayed. It involved her husband of 41 years, and having found out at his funeral that her husband was having an affair by the OW showing up at the funeral.<p>Her description moved me. She implied that all she had was her 41 years - and that the OW robbed her of all those years of happiness in one afternoon. She said her life was wasted and that the OW was responsible for theft and had committed a crime against her. This BS in this movie was on a jury (the trial involved another BS who shot and killed her husband for his affair). <p>I have had many friends say to me that the OM is not at fault here, that it is all on my wife's behaviour and dishonesty. However, I can't get past the anger I feel for him. He knew about me from jump, he walked past pictures of me into our bed!!! He continues to function normally after having robbed me of the years I thought were mine - well it leaves me wanting harm to befall him, hoping for it sometimes, thinking of it. I know turning the other cheek is a mainstay of many of you - but I also know an eye for an eye comes from the same philosophy. <p>My question to BS's is: have you ever confronted a OM or OW? Has anyone sunk low enough to hurt the OM or OW? Has anyone taken any action against this human waste and if so, how did you feel after? I am not asking for advise on whether I should do something or not, I will not. He's not worth the effort. I would just like to hear about experience in this area, as it hasn't really been touched before - at least not recently.<p>I have been accused of having too much "pride" in this issue - that thinking about hurting him is about rebuilding my manliness. I thought hard on this and I feel that it is not about pride or manliness - it's about a need for justice - a need to see a person pay for an action that has caused me years of suffering and loss.<p>Anyone?

you didn't say whether the om was married or not also (making your wife the ow, and the same criteria applies to her)....but I am a ws, and the om (we were both married), I have no idea of course what the om in your life was like (people vary a great deal, bs and ws alike), I have thought about this alot, my role in the owh life, and what that means exactly to him (the owh had the potential for violence), and how this all plays out in the real world (none of us (bs or ws)are propery, owned by our spouses, and are free to make whatever relationships decisions we feel we need to make, there are repercussions and consequences of course, one of which you are asking about...I think everyone knows that.<p>You asked for experiences of violence, I have none, never seen or heard from the owh....but if you want to ask anything else re being an om, feel free, if not I will delete this. There was a poster about 6 months ago who confronted the om and threatened him (may even have punched him, but nothing serious)...caught him in the backyard sneaking over to see his w. Nothing came of it, but om backed off (he was also threatened with exposure in the community).<p>In general I see no real problem with confronting the op (om or ow), it is a source of information...but there are hazards, and they should be evaluated...as for wreaking violence mano o mano, I think you are kidding yourself...you do wanna establish male supremacy, let me ask you something, if you could do the violence thing and had the choice of 2 outcomes, but only can pick one....what would it be.<p>1. He is indeed punished, and you are vindicated, but the affair may continue.<p>2. He is intimidated and the affair ends (even if wife wants it to continue).<p>I assume you would choose #2. That is a dominance outcome.<p>I do think violence on om can be justified, but only if he is a predator, and your wife is in danger....and assuming the risks are acceptable (assault charges, or escalation of violence from om)...<p>[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

Good topic Harley.<p>I too have thought about this but never thought about posting it her. I confronted the OM twice over the phone. both times I was the agressor (naturally). It felt good to do so, calmly and nonhistarically. However, the 1st time (when I fisrt found out) had no or very little effect and later realized he and my wife talked and even laughed about it. The 2nd time (about 2 months later as I was trying to notify his wife of the affair) drove my wife to moving out and to her parents (this was previously discussed by us). So it did feel good, but had negative outcomes as well.<p>I agree that it is not necessarily a pride thing or macho thing. I think it is about vindication, an eye for an eye. He and my wife had the affair, I love my wife and able to try to work this out, I dont love this guy and want him "punished". this can be done other ways than physical, as I am sure you realize. Your own control my be frustrating enough for the OM and wife for at least some vindication<p>Panaju

The question posed is not only a question of violence, but of any actions towards OP. Could mean an argument, a heated conversation, a "dirty trick" played on them to harm things they endeveour in life - essentially anything done to negatively affect them.<p>In my case the OM was not in a relationship, but he knew my wife was my love. He knew of me but not knew me personally - and he continues to try and initiate contact with her. (last confirmed attempt at contact was a few days ago.)<p>I have phoned him once in a heated moment (1 day after dday) and threatened to kill him. He SMS'd me back sayin he is a peaceful man and stay out of his life. Funny, the little [censored] had no problem getting involved in and ruining my life. <p>You truly believe that I am acting out male pattern macho stuff? You don't feel there is any merit to wanting justice, for wanting him to suffer as he has made me suffer? I wonder if healing myself would happen faster knowing HE is suffering.<p>As for your question I would definitely answer number 2. I would want him intimidated away from her. This would mean that even if I left her I would want fear in his bones about ever seeing her again. Kind of killing two birds with one stone in that she would not have him even in the event of my leaving, and he would be too cowardly to try. And believe me when I say I am capable of that kind of intimidation.<p>In this case she swears that there has been no contact since the letter, but she doesn't know I have a "mole" in his circle of friends. I know when he inexplicably knows about things my wife and I have been doing since the affair, I know that he does talk about calling her using someone elses phone (so I won't see the number). I have heard that he talked about her phoning him from her office - but as yet I can't confirm that. She will not admit to it, and I have decided not to press further on that issue. If my wife is using the time away from me to contact him I will find out without a doubt. The microscope is on them both much more than they realize. <p>Anyway, the reason I say that is because I do feel he is acting in a predatory way - that even if and when she insisted on him not contacting her - even for his safety - he is spitting in my face to try. In situations wherein I find out he is trying to contact her or speaking about her I have a hard time remaining distant and peaceful - the voice in my head says it would be the right thing to do to confront him. The reason I haven't yet is that I know my propensity for violence and know I could hurt him alot with relative ease.<p>I am struggling with the knowledge of having been robbed, manipulated and laughed at by a person not 1/10th the man I am. It irritates me more than actually angers me, he is such a peon I can't even believe my wife would stoop that low. That having been said, it still feels like for me and any other BS I have read about - justice should be served somehow, in some way. What do you think?

bumping for attention [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

I have been reading here for the last 5 months or so but have never posted. <p>Sorry no one knows my story yet.
I will rectify that shortly now that i have posted.<p>But this post is just too close to the hundreds of thoughts I have had not to reply to.<p>Allthough I have never seen the "invisible man" close enough yet to really know what he looks like I do know what will happen if and WHEN I do. <p>I WILL gently prevoke him, And he will have 2 choices....<p>1. Cower away without saying a word.
2. Prevoke me back. <p>I will be happy with either one.<p>A duel at 20 paces would be the best but I think as men we have lost that right.

Ok, harley, looks like you want some more feedback. Yes the om in your life sounds like a predator, and in some screwey way I think it does make a difference he is single, there is something about both people in an affair being married that makes it a level playing field (but that is another philosophic issue). So being single and a predator, maybe a bus will run over him, and cosmic justice served. The predator stuff is tough, people are free adults in this country, and if your wife is encouraging him, then you little status, being married to someone does not make you their parent etc. BUT if she is trying to break away and he is not respecting her, that is strike 1, if as well he is bragging in such a way to others that is predator strike 2 (he should be agonizing over this, not bragging about it)... strike 3? Well, your gut instinct I suppose, you talked to him.<p>In my case had I been contacted and threatened in the same way, I would have responded that I understood his feelings, but that he does not own his w... I would have done him the courtesy of some insight into my understanding of the difficult place we all found ourself (if he asked), and I would have suggested he needs to work with his wife toward a resolution, and I need to work with my w for same, but that the nature of any contact between me and his w was up to her and I....however, by the time it got past the good friends stage, and we knew we were in emotional/physical trouble, we had allready concluded we had to stop and resolve our lives first, and we are. Been 1 year since I saw her, and almost 8 months since I talked with her... <p> btw had he threatened me, I would have ignored him too, and probably made a police report (in case I disappeared one day), and been a little cautious, but no man worthy of being a man is going to let another intimidate him. Human beings are not property, and if your spouse (women threaten to kill ow sometimes too) is violating your marriage by interacting with someone else, you either leave them, or try to make it work, you cannot kill the op...and that sort of is the same thing about violence to em too. In fact anybody who would seriously hurt the op (unless they were a predator and was a real defensive thing) is unworthy of being married IMO, they have revealed they think they can own their spouses choices....marriage is voluntary and a spouse can walk away anytime they choose too, one of the chances we take in marriage.<p>Back to you, yeah, I see some mixture, some man to man chest thumping, some protection, and some plain vanilla vengeance. But that is understandable, and if you are a guy used to backing up yourself with your physical presence, can be tough to be here. But as you have gotten older, I suspect you have realized violence (for intimidation) is a dangerous place to go, and not particularly psychologically healthy for you... is a poor problem resolution mechanism (whether you win or lose). Vengeance, well we all know that is the road to hell, satan would love for you to get enraged and kick his [censored], and what better way than to put you in this spot. I do see some defensive concern too, and some justification, and IMO that is where you should try to focus, how to bring pressure to bear that gets him away from your wife, to protect her NOT YOU, but is tought to pull off, be careful and thoughtful how you go about it, and physical intimidation is the trickiest tool of all, but it has its place.... trouble is it is a bluff, or if you follow through, you run very high risks of really screwing up your life (and if you have kids, violance is not an option, you put them at risk too, losing you to jail or whatever, and/or being in the middle of something crazy).<p>harley...The question posed is not only a question of violence, but of any actions towards OP. Could mean an argument, a heated conversation, a "dirty trick" played on them to harm things they endeveour in life - essentially anything done to negatively affect them.<p>snl..I know, but same applies to whatever you do re motivations....and revenge is the most dangerous of all reasons...to YOU, you will suffer the most, and become someone you should despise. It is the worst kind of possessive, jealous, selfish type of response. But a heated conversation, and revealing your feelings to someone, is ok IMO....although often less satisfying than we imagine...it is ok to want someone to know how they have impacted you, that is not the same as wanting to punish someone for how they impacted you...punishment is meted out by the state, God, and life itself...it is not a place an individual should go too.<p>harley...I have phoned him once in a heated moment (1 day after dday) and threatened to kill him. He SMS'd me back sayin he is a peaceful man and stay out of his life. Funny, the little [censored] had no problem getting involved in and ruining my life. <p>snl....I know this is rough, and feeling violated is part of the pathology (for the bs) of an affair. And I won't bore you with a long treatsie re this, but just say.... this is what people do, they interact with each other, it would be nice if marriage were some kind of automatic protection, but it's not, can't be, and shouldn't be anyways (not a cage)...so he didn't "do" anything to you, this is the result of many things, including your contribution to the failed marriage (affairs are simply symptons of failed marriages), you started down this path when you married your wife, the wheels were set in motion long ago. However, if he deliberately targeted your wife, and has no honorable intentions (meaning the interaction was about the same emotional things marriage is about..bonding etc.), then he is a predator for sure.... but your wife still responded, it is not about ruining your life, that is victim talk, and the fact of the matter is predators exist, and in large numbers...but the good news is, a predator should be fairly easily revealed, and the affair permanently ended, is much harder when real feelings are involved...so focus on stuff that reveals him for what he is (and no, do not try to educate your w, this requires creativity)...if can get the affair ended, then the real work begins with your w, and why she allowed this to happen.<p>harley...You truly believe that I am acting out male pattern macho stuff? <p>snl...some, just read your posts, and how you characterize the om.<p>harley...You don't feel there is any merit to wanting justice, for wanting him to suffer as he has made me suffer? <p>snl...No merit, is not your place to mete out justice. But if justice comes, and you throw a happy dance, don't think anyone will begrudge ya that.<p>harley...I wonder if healing myself would happen faster knowing HE is suffering.<p>snl..If it would, you have far more serious problems than your wifes affair. Is normal to feel this way, but it should scare you too, hate is a deadly poison, that consumes the holder, not the target, of the hate.<p>harley...As for your question I would definitely answer number 2. I would want him intimidated away from her. This would mean that even if I left her I would want fear in his bones about ever seeing her again. Kind of killing two birds with one stone in that she would not have him even in the event of my leaving, and he would be too cowardly to try. And believe me when I say I am capable of that kind of intimidation.<p>snl...I believe you capable, but let me ask you a question about love....you claim to love your wife, is that for her? Or because of what she adds to your life? (two very different things). If you do love her, and for whatever crazy, inexplicable reason, she choose this other guy (whether a good choice or not) would you let her go and wish her the best? What you said above is a jealous response, if I can't have her he can't either...that is precisely the reason spouses murder their spouse (and/or lover), if I can't have her, no one can....BANG.....think real hard about that harley, you don't really want that kind of reasoning to motivate you.<p>In this case she swears that there has been no contact since the letter, but she doesn't know I have a "mole" in his circle of friends. I know when he inexplicably knows about things my wife and I have been doing since the affair, I know that he does talk about calling her using someone elses phone (so I won't see the number). I have heard that he talked about her phoning him from her office - but as yet I can't confirm that. She will not admit to it, and I have decided not to press further on that issue. If my wife is using the time away from me to contact him I will find out without a doubt. The microscope is on them both much more than they realize. <p>harley...The reason I haven't yet is that I know my propensity for violence and know I could hurt him alot with relative ease.<p>snl...That is a good decision, if you don't have enough implulse control to avoid spontaneous violence, stay away. Btw, that makes you manipulatible as well, would not be the first time a man was subtley goaded into an irrational (and illeagle) act of violence, and found himself restoring his marriage from a jail cell, very hard to do, harleys don't even have a chapter for it, ya know? You know harely, if nothing else good comes out of this, it is an opportunity to get your prospensity for violence under permanent control, and turn the propensity off, and replace it with decisive behaviour.<p>harley....I am struggling with the knowledge of having been robbed, manipulated and laughed at by a person not 1/10th the man I am. <p>snl.... Macho? (do I really need to explain that this was pure dominance?). Nothing wad actually done to you, we are not talking about property, but if anyone is to blame it is your w, she freely chose her actions (I assume she wasn't drugged or some such). And why do you car what someone 1/10 of you does, so what if he laughs? The truth is plain for all to see, but if it does bother you, you need to work some in the self-esteem dept (affairs do reveal that need pretty clearly).<p>harley...It irritates me more than actually angers me, he is such a peon I can't even believe my wife would stoop that low. <p>snl...But she did, just accept it, and decide what to do about it, life is like that guy, crap happens, it is what we do with it that seperates the men from the boys.<p>harley...That having been said, it still feels like for me and any other BS I have read about - justice should be served somehow, in some way. What do you think? <p>snl...Now there is a deep question....I have addressed it above...... but let me say this, you are talking to someone (me) who has no doubt God exists, and that I will stand before him one day, as will we all, and justice will be served methinks.<p>As for secular justice, sure should be served, but not vengefully, or by you. Lots of justice occurs.... people lose jobs, get std's, have jealous spouses hurt/kill them (a sorta natural consequence of humans going crazy), and suffer poor relations with others cause of their poor skills, loss of money can occur, lots of things. Can even end up in court, etc..... <p>Harley you are focused WAY TOO MUCH on these things, read this site, figure out who you are, who your wife is, whether you really want this marriage, and apply the tools in the proper manner, and what will be will be.... you CANNOT make anything happen, control anyone but yourself, and I think that is your biggest problem right now, accepting that....but you will. Just being here, and posting pretty much validates you have what it takes....good luck, and whatever happens you will be a better you, and have a better life, you don't believe that now, but you will come to understand it, just try to keep you dumb actions to a minimum [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] post here for support, ideas, and kicks in the butt, and soldier on.<p>[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

I'm the wife, and I did knock that sorry homewrecking sack of shi+ down when I saw her... on the floor flat... sorry but I have heard load s of stories of others who have to...<p>Never been in a fight in my life... and as a very feminine girl, woman... I never imagined myself in this predicament... the anger I feel for her is so intense and horrid it is unimaginable..<p>I did not plan this encounter.. my h and his ow walked into a bar.. that I had gone to ck out ... after my children told me they took them there... to eat... bar food, whle the two played darts and drnak beer... woohoo!<p>I had to see where my kids went... and had a sitter one night,.. and went.. this was all 2 weeks after I found out, my h moved out and sd he though t he loved her... for the last 17 yrs.. he and I had been involved, and for 10 of those married... OK?<p>He was the love of my life, and the father of my childrem and my H.<p>Well, when I saw her... i dfid not even think... I knocked her flat , pulled... her hair out and whatever else I could do until pulled off of her...
'
unfortunatllye... or perhaps fortuntatley... I would of hurt her a lot more had people not been there to pull me off.. she had not a chance...<p>I have heard of lots of people doing this.. in fact there are lots of heat of passion crimes... <p>your crime if reported.. and it likely will be.. my "attack" was reported, I had to go to court... and eventually it was dismissed.. my h was involved, and refuse d to let his part get out of it... and I have now offenseive touching against my h... I did not even try to involve him in this scene.. he jumped into it....???<p>SO, anyway... it is better not to do it... it did feel good... and I am glad it in some ways I got to pull her nasty hair out... but then again, I am very sorry... and regretful.. this is not me... did she deserve it, yes. does the law recognize this, yes..<p>people get off for murder in heat of passion crimes... in no way do I recommend commiting any crime or attack against op... but I still have soo much anger towards this person..<p>When I drive through the neighborhood, she still lives in, where my h lives... I am afraid I will see her car...as I would have the urge to run her... down... <p>I am being very frank... and I have no intention of doing anything else to this piece of crap that came into my life... and hurt so many people... bu5t I will harbor hate for her.. until I can somehow relaese it, it is very difficult to do this....<p>just wanted yout o know you are not the only one....with intense anger for OP... I can't shake it... and i Have talked to other women with it... and men too... me usually show it a bit more than women... but we women have some real anger too!<p>RMM

Harley,<p>
In my previous marriage I confronted one of the OW’en. She of course said that they were ‘just friends’. Basically lied and make up a story. I know she was lying because I’d called her first pretending to be someone else. Was friendly to her and was able to get her to talk with me… it’s amazing what a person will tell someone they don’t know if that person is friendly and gets their confidence. I never spoke to the other OW’en about the affairs. I knew a couple of them. One was the mother of a close friend of our son’s. But I ignored the OW’en as they had nothing at all to do with my marriage or me. If one of them ever tries to talk to me about the affairs I’ll give her hell. But I will not go out of my way, or lower myself to their game. They are scum, period. My beef was with my H and the way he treated me.<p>I did contact all of my H’s OW’en, spoke/chatted with them for hours. That was how I got a lot of the info about the affairs. <p>There was one who threaded to hurt me… claimed to be a witch. After my H sent her the no-contact letter sent me an email threatening to hurt me with her witchcraft. She thought that I wrote the no contact letter and was playing games with her. She was also angry because despite the fact that she promised me to not talk to my H again, she was IM’ing him all the time. The problem was that it was me, not him, on the receiving end of her IM’s. I’m not afraid of witchcraft but I am afraid of psychotic people. In response to her attack, I sent her a short sweet email. I did not blame her for their affair because she did not know he was married… I told her as much and told her that her anger really concerned me because it was an irrational response to things we had discussed. I was as sweet to her was possible. The fact that I returned her vile threats with compassion and understanding infuriated her. It was her choice to respond this way, as that is not how my email meant. She responded with an uglier and more threatening email. I realize now that I should have sent her emails to AOL’s abuse moderator. <p>Basically they all told me that they would stop all contact with him. He did not do anything to contact them. Yet they were IM’ing and emailing him wanting to still be ‘friends’. I did let each of them know that I was privy to their little games and that they had lied to me. After that I dropped it. When they were involved in their affairs with my H, they did not know that he was married. But once I contacted them and they knew, once they had promised me no contact, their actions were wrong. I let them know how I felt about it.<p>There two who are married/engaged? I am going to let their H/fiancé know that they are trolling the Internet for cyber relationships. They are still doing it today almost a year later. How do I know? Because I got online with them under an assumed name, pretending to be a guy. They are disgusting women. So with them I will do what I believe to be morally right. Let their SO know what is going on.<p>But most of all, these women have nothing to do with me. It is not a rivalry between them and me. So beyond what I describe above I will do nothing. I certainly will not stoop to try to hurt them physically or in any other way. It would only serve to pull me down.<p>SNL is right, do not focus on the OM. Focus on you and your wife. He made no vows to you. The best revenge you can have is to let him know that he does not exist. That he is meaningless.

If I told you of my dreams I could be jailed.<p>I called one OW, their A had just began, and I explained to her that although H had told her stories to the contrary, he was in fact married, and did in fact live in the home and sleep in the marriage bed. I told her that she was wrong to continue anything with him, and she gave me a huge line of bs about how it would never happen again, she was angry with him for lying la la la. They were together for months after that.<p>I was in the very city she lived, and made arrangements to meet her that evening with the intention of beating the crap out of her, but having never been in a fight myself, and considering she was just 23 in good fighting condition, and not knowing why I thought this was in any way a good idea... OK, I chickened out.<p>I still dream of having some final revenge because although she quickly dissapeared when H had a bad accident, she is the root cause of my marriage having ended in divorce a few short weeks ago.<p>Even to send her a note to say she was welcome to the [censored] now that he is free.<p>Those will stay dreams. I am the better person. I will not stoop to her level. I blame him more than her.<p>Elizabeth

Harley,<p> The feelings you have are very normal. There used to be a fellow on here(MB) that had followed through on his emotions. He actually killed the OM. <p> This fellow(I can't remember his username now)posted one time about how much he regretted what he had done. Not only did he do real jail time for the killing, but, he was haunted by dreams of ending the life of another human. <p> It was tragic that it took the actual losing of a life to put some perspective in this guy, about the affair. In the end he realized what really mattered for him. <p> As I recall, this guy had put his life back in order. Was married, happily again. But is haunted to this day by his actions.<p> I think everyone who lives with betrayal must battle the demon of wanting to harm the OP. It is a battle you must win Harley. There are too many innocents in the background who don't deserve something like that. <p> I wanted to kill OM #1 in the worst way. Even made promises to do just that if the guy ever came down my street. But I overcame that feeling. He drives right by my house at least once a week. OM #2 was threatened by me. But the only thing I did for him was to tell his future wife what he had done. I came real close(about 6 inches)to running over OM #3, but he gets the pass as well.<p> LOL, hell man I would have to kill half the damn town it seems. Not really of course. Just know that the feelings you have are normal. You must put that in perspective and let it go.<p> jd<p>[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: jdmac1 ]</p>

I too would be in prison, and very much on death row if I had carried out my bloodlust revenge fantasies on OM and xW.<p>I happen to work for company that has some of the nastiest chemical substances known to man. I have total access to said chemical substances and the security is so lax that a terrorist would have a field day. It would be soooo easy for me to have gotten those chemicals out of the plant.<p>For the OM I had planned to use HydroFluoric acid to bathe him from head to toe. For those that don't know what HF acid does, let me say that it is the most insidious chemical we work with because unlike a corrosive acid like sulfuric or nitric, hydrofluoric is not felt at all by the person exposed to it and thus treatment often comes to late to save the life of the person. Hydrofluoric acid seeps down thru the skin and muscle tissues until it gets to the bone tissue where it proceeds to literally 'cristallize' the bone. I know of one case in years past where a chemical supply delivery driver got accidentally bathed with HF and died in less than 24 hours. I beleive there was an episode of E.R. where that was the topic. A very slow and horrible death indeed.<p>As for my xW, I would have used sufuric acid on her face so that she would have been so horribly disfigured, that no man would have ever approached her again. I remember also that in a southeast asian country, the wives of certain prominent men were using this same tactic agains the OW just recently.<p>But thank God Almighty that they remained fantasies that had a very short life span, because now I get ill just thinking that I even contemplated them.<p>Excuse me will I go puke.<p>Joe

Falling Down, hang in there bro and post if you can. I am the typical "don't talk about it and it will go away" kind o guy, but this site has saved me lots of times in my dark hours. These people have true insight that WILL help you through this - the worst thing that could happen. I am there for you too mano, believe it. And BTW that whole provocation thing is something that I never thought of. Nicely put. <p>SNL WOW if u r not in the proffesion of helping others u should consider it seriously. Your response has spoken volumes to what my heart was questioning, and I can see that you have great insight in these matters.<p>I shouldn't have suggested I have a propensity to violence - I am actually very peaceful. I do know how to be effective in a violent way, but never would use it as an answer to a problem. Just within the revelation of my W 2 affairs I think I have shown that I can control anger - as no one has been hurt yet, and I can honestly say no one will. <p>I have been in martial arts many years and understand that violence is acceptable only in a defensive capacity. My feelings of violence toward him are just knee jerk male responses to having been thrust in the middle of hell. I knew I would not hurt him the first day I found out, even as I phoned him. He is not really worth anything to me, certainly not enough to jeapordise my life, my karma or position with God. <p>The reason I posted this thread is because of the movie I saw. It was a true story wherein an old lady of 70 years of age admitted to her fellow jurors that she would kill her husband if she had found out about his A before the old coot had died. It triggered all kinds of philisophical arguments in my head; like "why is it only me suffering? WHy does he get the cake?" "What have other people actually done to their WS and OP?" <p>Where he is concerned I am sure some large machine will run him down in the future, or maybe he will get a mean case of Ebola. In a perfect world he will be the first case of Prolonged Spontaneous Combustion. Or better yet, maybe he will learn from this mistake and become a good person and live long and happy. The only concern I still have is in this "predatory" sense - but I have yet to see it escalate to a point where I would intervene. What I have heard about so far seems more like steam burning off a dead train.<p>Would I let her go and wish her well with him? HELL NO!!! I love my wife because she loves me, because she is there for me as I am for her. I love her in a symbiotic way, in a manner condusive to us growing together and from each other. If she wanted to leave me for him she is not worth my love and in my book not deserving of the respect I would give anyone else on the street. Call it a defence mechanism I have developed. She will have rewritten the equation that made us and thus there would be a different result. That is the difference between me and this belief of turning the other cheek. <p>I cannot ascribe to the notion that letting go as friends and wishing WS well as a person whom wronged you so badly is any benefit to anything or anyone. It enables their destructive behaviour to continue - hurting themselves and those they touch. It keeps your own pain close to you as you pine away at old pictures, momentos - wonderring, wishing. The end result of you expressing love to someone whom doesn't love you back is a pointless time consuming and silly exersize. I am sorry for being so blunt but in some cases I have read about on this site, I wish they would come to this conclusion as well for their own benefit. I have red posts that are obviously door mat cases, and feel so horrible for these women and men. <p>As for my WW, I believe she has come to the point of self discovery, and is willing and able to move on and grow. My only thoughts now are; can I love her enough to try again? I am trying, but there still is so much pain, so many issues. I am fighting though SNL, and I appreciate this dialogue. I hope things are working out for you - you definitely have the emotional tools at your disposal.

Well, I am going to speak for my H as there was some justice served in our case. On D-day, xOM forced my hand, and I told my H about the A when xOM came over for just that reason. When I told my H, H told xOM to leave. xOM just stood there, waiting, I assume, for my H to kick me out of the house! Well, it didn't happen, and H ended up threatening xOM if he didn't leave. xOM threw the first punch, and to keep from getting further injured, H "bear-hugged" xOM. I tried to break it up, and got hit in the head my xOM for my efforts! I finally got a neighbor to break it up.<p>Well, in the military, they are very strict about assault and adultry! Since my H called the MP's about the assault, and the adultry was revealed as a result, it went to xOM's command to deal with.<p>xOM was definately the predatory type, as he had known about my "get back at H" A, and kept trying to talk to me. When I told him I didn't want to see or talk to him ever again, he started the harassment! Threatening to tell H all about that other A! Well, that really scared me, not that he wanted to tell H, but that he was so desperate to keep up the contact with me! H does know about everything now, so it wouldn't have mattered anyway.<p>Now, for the justice part, in the Navy, their "court" is called a Captain's Mast. This is the second level stuff is taken to, one below court martial! Well, being a witness to the assault, I was requested to show up at this "hearing"! xOM didn't deny the adultry, but was claiming self defense! I was honest, said that H did threaten xOM, but that xOM threw the first punch. xOM was essentially knocked down 2 ranks(he had just made the next rank and wasn't getting paid for it yet), and his medical hold was completed, and he was kicked out. Even though it says discharged for medical, he only got the pay for the lower rank, and therefore, was hurt in the second most part of his pants, if you know what I mean. <p>So, we saw justice, and we know what it's like to be "stalked"! Was it worth it, I think that it was great to see him punished, and I have been dealt my own, as I ended up pregnant. We never have told xOM, and H is raising Abbi as his own D. Needless to say, I learned my lesson, and know my own signs of when those needs are not being met, and what to do at that point. I don't ever want to go through what I put myself and other's through 2 years ago!<p>Hope this made cense, as I was typing between getting Abbi and myself ready for church! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Tigger

I don't think fantasies of violence are those belonging to the domain of men only. I have had many fantasies of running over the OW w/ my Subburban, leaving her flat as a pancake. Or stabbing her with a fork, repeatedly. I still hate her and although I know that for my own health, I must be able one day to release that anger, so far I am unable to. I think perhaps that it is because although the A is over and we are in recovery, we are still feeling the terrible affects of his involvement w/ her. He is in rehab at this moment, she was the one to supply him with his first hit, she brought it to him and so helped him destroy his professional career. He may lose his license to practice because of this. So, yes I blame her a great deal, but with the realization that he must accept his share of the blame as well. However, we are reaping ALL of the consequences for this, she dropped him like a hot potato when he got in trouble and has just gone on with her life, no guilt, no consequences at all. In fact, she is better off now than she ever has been in her life, with the great paying job that my H got for her. That just really sucks. <p>I would like some justice, there is no doubt about that, but I don't think I will get it. Perhaps some day down the line, she will get some deadly disease from sleeping around so much like she does. I have actually been around her after the PA went to EA, but controlled myself beautifully. I was very much the lady, and found out later from her coworker that she was petrified and got very upset from me being around. She got off lightly! I think I will go now and fantasize about creative ways that she will get whats coming to her....

Well, what can I say.. not much.. but a whole damn lot in response to hurting the OP or having the same feelings that you have. I'm not going to tell you to follow your feelings or not to follow your feelings, because at the time of your forthcoming incident, it is going to be the heat of passion and you will do what ever your INSTINCT follows. Some people are fight driven, some people are flight driven. <p>If your fighting for something you believe in, an ideal, a belief, a stance then I truley don't believe your 'less of person' or NOT worthy to be married to.<p>This country is based on defending and fighting for ideals and beliefs and everyone of those ideals was worthy of the fight. Not one of our forefathers did 'not' deserve to stand up for what they believed in at the sake of losing ones marriage.<p>Property? I believe that we are indeed each others property. When two BECOME one you can't unmix it. You are responsible for each other. I don't believe that you have the 'right' to leave because you now are getting your wick wet somewhere else or are being proped open like 7-11 and now you think that you don't 'fit' anymore.<p>I look at it this way. Two became one. And anyone who sticks his wick into the half of you that calls herself your wife, DOES deserve to approach their final destination.

I confronted all of the OW... especially OW#1. It's been over 1 yr now since D-day, and I STILL have a vast amount of anger inside of me, which is directed at her. When xmas rolled around, I thought I was doing okay... until someone walked down my street who looked like OW#1 - the surge of anger came rushing through me. I was pissed! It made me see that I'm not yet over it, and God help her if I should run into her in public, because I WILL pummel her to the ground.<p>Now, as far as 'hurting' the OP, I was a party in that with OW#1. There was a bit of a stink on here when I first shared it in a post.<p>An internet friend of mine, who also knew OW#1, told me how OW and her H were wanting to adopt a child (I already knew that b/c of our now former friendship - but apparently plans were in the works). This new friend of mine worked with someone who happened to be friends with OW#1's adoption caseworker. (following this? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ). Anyways... I had done a LOT of snooping, and had a LOT of emails between OW#1 and my H. I forwarded them to this friend, who in turn gave them to her friend, who then gave them to the worker. This was back in March or April of 2001.<p>During our early recovery phase (the first month or so), H and I were talking this crap out. I told him what I had done about those emails, and he informed me that OW#1's adoption case had been closed (for now) because of them.<p>I was ECSTATIC!!! OOOHhhh... to have been a fly on her wall when she got that news! Apparently, her H suggested they sue me for deframation (sp?) of character, but that never happened. Too bad. Her H (although I confronted him on the A) didn't believe it to be true (sorry sap). If they had chosen to take me to court, then it would have all come out on the record books that there was an A.<p>Yes, it felt great finding out that some revenge (in the safety and concern for an innocent child) was bestowed upon OW#1. But it still wasn't good enough for me. Part of me thinks that what I would need to let it go completely, would be for her to admit to her wrongdoing, and tell me she's sorry. But that ain't gonna happen. <p>That brings me back to... God help her if we see each other in public sometime. <p>Karen

No, I never hurt her but I sure did want to. My fantasy was to walk into the office where they both worked, march over to her desk and SLAP her. That's it. <p>I wished a lot on her. Like, I wished for her to die.<p>The reason I didn't act on any of my feelings or thoughts was because I didn't want to get on her totally SCUMMY level. I just couldn't sink that low because I'm SO FAR ABOVE HER in every way.<p>That's it for me.<p>Love,
BurningBright
[img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

There is a fine line between the sane and the insane. We all have horrible, vengeful thoughts. The insane cross the line to act on them.

Dear Harley,
I know the pain that you feel. In my case, I don't hate the ow. I think that she is a slut that does not care who she hurts in life, in fact she went out of her way to hurt my family, but it was my husband who had the commitment to me. It was he that hurt me, if you think about it, the thing that hurts is that he chose her over me. I knew that she was after my husband, and in fact warned him way before it ever happened to stay away, that she had a reason for being so "nice" to him. I know that I do not like her at all, but there are so many women (and men) like her out there, we can't hate them all. Some people just have no sense of right or wrong and don't care about anyone but themselves. (I know it sounds like I still have bad feelings towards my husband for what he did, but I've actually moved past that and love him very much, although I think that he was very wrong to hurt me and my children so much.) I'll probably never get over the pain of his affair, but I would never go out of my way to hurt the ow. (Although I have pounded her face in my nightmares!!) [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
mt
m 19 years
bs age 37
ws age 43
2 children
ages 14&18<p>[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: mt ]</p>