i have been thinking lately about this and need some honest answers and opinions-and i really dont want to hear the in time thing. have the trust issues really gotten better for you or do you just chose to believe and ignore those nagging feelings? i dont truely feel as if i will ever trust again and will always have these feelings. and if i do how do i live like that? i use to always say" i could not be with him if i couldnt trust him." im not sure i can? any opinions or thoughts????

But time is a VERY big part of it. NOT all of it, but big. Here's how it works. <p>First, there needs to be some verbal agreement of honesty. <p>Ask him! "Do you understand that I don't trust you?" "Will you commit to rebuilding trust by being honest with me every day of your life, for the rest of your life?" He is responsible for the loss of trust. You BOTH are responsible for fixing it. I know that doesn't make any sense to you now, but it will. When my W cheated on me and our counselor told me that I was 1/2 responsible for fixing it, I thought she was nuts. "She screwed it up, she has to fix it!" I thought. I was wrong.<p>Second, start testing the waters. You will have to risk to trust. Start with a little risk. If he's honest, you'll be able to risk a little more. Then if he's honest, you can risk more, and so on.<p>So, as you see, this process does take time. But if someone's telling you, "it just takes time," BULL!!! Yes it takes time, but not just time. Y'all have some work to do!<p>One last comment. This is the sh*tty part. In order to take that first little risk, some part of you has to trust him just a little. I can't tell you where or how to find that trust, except suggesting that you try God. If you don't believe in him, try wine. But note that studies have shown far greater success with God. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

I know you don't want to hear this, but at first, it DID take time to trust my H again. And to be honest with you, that trust will never be at 100% again. But according to Dr. Harley, that's a GOOD thing. We should never blindly trust our spouse. Look where it got us when we did that before?<p>For me, yes, the trust has come back. Yes, I do still have those 'nagging' feelings inside sometimes, but when they arise, I talk to my H about them. He has shown me by his actions that he is becoming trustworthy again. And if I have a problem and am doubting him, then he'll do what he can to prove he can be trusted.<p>It is also true that for some situations, I have to make the conscious decision to trust him. It's a matter of thinking about something else, and not worrying about 'what if?". THAT is hard to do. But practice makes it easier. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>IMO, if you find you cannot get past the trust issue with your H, then it is your decision as to whether or not you want to continue in your recovery. But just as you implemented the Harley principles to your M to give it the best chance it could have to recover, you must also give your M a chance TO recover. And I'm sorry to say it again, but it does take time. Every person's situation is unique, so you have to figure out just how much 'time' you are willing to give it.<p>Karen

dear wld and topie- thank you for responding- i am giving it time, and i do force myself to trust everytime he leaves my site. i guess some of the problem is he works such long hours. he runs a car dealership. he's gone from 7:30 in the morning and not home till at least 10 at night. and thats a normal day not a late one. the comment i have made about trust comes from the hours we spend apart- i always said for the amount of time we are apart he could have another wife and kids for all i know! boy did that bite me in the a$$!!!! its just little things-like today i noticed a cologne i never saw before, or the other day a sweater i never saw. i mentioned the sweater and he said his mom gave it for xmas. the stupid things bother me. now i wonder about the cologne. im tired of being suspicious and asking. i feel like im stuck. well i am stuck and i need him to do more for recovery,but i guess hes not ready. he hasnt started counseling and has never openly shown remorse or hurt for what he has done. i found a old thread on what my ws did to rebuild trust and was thinking of letting him read it. see he thinks he is doing everything. but hes not, not in my eyes, or heart. i feel as if he cant openly feel bad for this-how can we truely recover. so much more but this is getting long.

Nikko,<p>Trust CAN be rebuilt if your WS works VERY HARD on reproving himself. I don't see how it could ever work otherwise. <p>Even so, you will probably NEVER EVER completely trust him again and that is something you have to be willing to settle for in the bargain. That is part and parcel of the decision to stay with a WS and work on your marriage. <p>But, if he does try you can get to a point where you live in peace again. For me, it was worth it and I feel very content in my marriage, however, I do not ever blindly trust him - I verify.

dear melody-that is what im talking about. the trade off. i know i will never be able to trust 100% again, i guess i shouldnt have in the first place, but the wondering about the little things is enough on its own to make you nuts. im afraid of the trade off and if its worth it. thanks for being honest.

Your H has to EARN your trust back. You BOTH need to work at this TOGETHER. He's obviously not doing enough to fulfil your EN's right now... but can you see the changes since you first started your recovery? <p>As you know, the little things add up over time. You have to sit back every now and then and look back to actually SEE what good changes have occurred. And if you can't see anything, then you need to do some better planning with your H.<p>Karen

topie- see thats part of the problem-he just took over this dealership and is putting all his time in there. he made this decision when we were "emotionally separated" without my consideration. i understand the added pressures and such, but its the same old thing-everything takes precedence over me. i keep wondering when im gonna finally come first. if ever? he does acknowledge he knows hes not meeting my en's to a great degree-he is doing better though. i just want a life where i feel i matter. i do to myself, i know that - please dont lecture me on that. i mean to the person i love. he needs counseling to deal with not dealing with his emotions and is stalling. i dont think he realizes the clock is ticking. what i mean is if he doesnt help himself-im not gonna do it for him or stay for this to happen again.

Well, then whenever you can address these issues to your H in a non-LBing way (as much as possible anyways), then do so. Try the letter writing approach if necessary. But you MUST talk to your H about this.<p>Ideally, you and he will be able to find ways to fulfil each others' EN's, and POJA.<p>But either way, you need to have a serious talk with your H and work together to get through this. (but you already know that, right? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ).<p>Karen

i know thats what i need to do-but how do you do it with someone who is emotionally closed off. i know this and know he needs help and i guess i dont want to push something he isnt ready for. i guess im stalling and so is he. in a few days we are going to florida-how bad would it be to bring this up there?? no kids just him and me at a 5 star spa and resort. i know he has other plans, i mean other than talking about all this. he really wants to spend time together. enjoying each other. i guess ill sleep on it. hes home now so im gonna go talk to him-not that i dont want to talk to you guys-i just havent talked to him all day and im tired. thanks-ill check back tomorrow.

Nikko,<p>I'm pretty much in the same boat, and I have talked to my H about it. I have told him more than once since D-day that after violating my trust so severely and because I refuse to go to the lengths I did before to find out the truth, that I will assume he is having an A unless HE puts forth the effort to prove to me that he is not (starting with Harley's extraordinary precautions from SAA).<p>I have tried so hard to get through to him that this need will NOT go away, that it will be there until HE meets it. Finally, Jan. 22 I told him that if he doesn't do what I need for him to do to help me recover from his A, then I will work on my own personal recovery outside of the M, and I asked him to leave. He refused to leave and agreed to work on recovery. He has made some efforts since then, did very well for about 4 days, then slacked off. He still does not follow the extraordinary precautions.<p>So, I don't know what to do either, but I feel that I have done what I need to do. I've told him in no uncertain terms that the M will not survive without him being accountable and dealing with the A to make sure it doesn't happen again.<p>Someone here on the boards said that their MC suggested lie detector tests for both spouses every 6 months to help rebuild trust on both sides. I think that is an excellent idea, and I would have no problem with it, but I bet my H would if I proposed it. I'd gladly scrimp to save up the $ for it. <p>I don't know why it is so hard for some WS to see that the M is at death's door and needs drastic measures to rebuild it. At this point, I just feel like a spectator watching someone walking off a cliff no matter how loud I shout for him to turn back.<p>Focusing on the little things helps a little. I noticed today that he took the 2nd of the 4 Relationship Rescue tapes to work with him, so at least he's continuing to listen to Dr. Phil. Maybe he'll hear Dr. Phil.<p>I would leave all the A issues at home when you go on your trip together. Make that time a respite from it for both of you. Give him the time of his life so he'll want more and maybe seek to spend more time like that with you back at home.<p>[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

It's been a little over 13 months for me. My trust for WW has improved drastically. Yes there are still occasional "nagging doubts", but they are not frequent.<p>I'm sure her behavior has had a large part in this. Once she left the job where OM was working (A had ended for about 4 months) it became VERY obvious to me that she was REALLY returning to the relationship, that her feelings and comittment were returning and she also began to be afraid of seeing him again.

dear conqueror-sorry to hear your in the same boat. i understand what your saying,the problem is he is having the time of his life. i never got mad, screamed, yelled,or did anything remotely close to lb'ing. he is having all his needs met,not just the top 5 and i am working my a$$ off in doing it. all the while keeping a house, taking care and raising two sons, and working. when the heck is it gonna be about me? sometimes i feel as if i should have thrown a fit or gone hysterical or something just to make him sorry. i know i cant make him sorry, but you know what i mean. i feel as if he thinks im gonna just accept this and somehow just magically just make it go away. i have told him what i need-but im still waiting. i guess im questioning my staying in this marriage. when we met i did not want anyone in my life. i just got divorced and told him flat out dont fall in love with me. i feel as if he went out of his way to make me love and trust again all for this? i guess im getting angry- im just not sure what im gonna do?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong>Nikko,<p>Trust CAN be rebuilt if your WS works VERY HARD on reproving himself. I don't see how it could ever work otherwise. <p>Even so, you will probably NEVER EVER completely trust him again and that is something you have to be willing to settle for in the bargain. That is part and parcel of the decision to stay with a WS and work on your marriage. <p>But, if he does try you can get to a point where you live in peace again. For me, it was worth it and I feel very content in my marriage, however, I do not ever blindly trust him - I verify.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>My sentiments exactly. Time and my H's actions helped me. He totally stopped all behaviors that went on during the A which helped a lot.I will never blindly trust him again, but I would never put myself in the position to blindly trust anyone ever again.

thanks everyone for all the input-i just am not sure i can hold on to us much longer. im having a bad day-can you tell? it just all seems so unjust to me right now. im so confused, im gonna take some time and think about it-in the beginning i gave our marriage a deadline- May- and if he didnt make changes or try to improve by then i would have some hard decisions to make. im just not sure i can hang in till may. my love bank is non-existant right now. i dont want to start hating him-not that at moments i dont allready- but i get past those moments now. im afraid that permanent damage is being done to my emotions that he will never get back from me. i have some big decisions now. plus im tired of all the STUFF going on on these boards lately. i have enough pain in my life without getting more inflicted by opening the wrong posts and being thrown for a loop. i just want my sanity and security back.....not all the conflict. any other sugg. please feel free to reply-this will probably be the only post i open.

well I kinda look at this whole thing differently than many (big surprise huh)...I do think trust and how you feel about it is important, nor do I think it is just about time (although time is a factor, just not lots of it). I think trust is another one of those mysterious components we use to assess the safety of a marriage. And if we don't feel like we trust in the right way, it is probably our "other" (non-cognitive) self telling us this marriage is not whwre I want to be. I don't think trust is an issue when you are in-love with someone, whether recovering from an affair, or a million other trust busting issues. What I do see is people forcing themselves to accept the marriages they have as the best they can do, and burying things like trust very deep. This is the whole methodology of settling for what you have (and who you have), instead of backing off some (not being married, just being friends, and co-parents), accepting lack of feeling safe, accepting neglectful behaviours, accepting abusive/dependenctcy behaviours, etc. etc.... the more issues, the harder it is to put away those nagging doubts... Those nagging doubts may be just normal aftermath, and leave with time, or they may be telling you things you need to listen too...every marriage is not healthy, or should be saved, the trick is figuring out what kind each of ours is, and what to do about it....but I do think trust is a biggy, and needs to be closely assessed, their is little reason to remain in a marriage without trust.

It took me about 2 years to really feel better after my H's affair. At that time he told me it was EA only, now I've found out it was definitely PA. They both lied about it for 6 years to cover their butts and protect themselves. <p>The lying will make it harder this time to trust. I guess I basically trust him, but still have moments where I'm sure he's going to leave again...for her or somebody else. She told him they could be together 'In another time, another place.' Isn't that sweet? She was only married 6 mos at the time. Sick.<p>It's hard but for me he has to earn back the trust and wait as time really does help. But it's sure hard waiting!

nikko - A bit of a twist on what others have said.<p>You have lost your innocence. It will never be regained.<p>From this site: Link
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Lack of trust does not make spouses paranoid and miserable, it makes their marriages safe. <hr></blockquote><p>I will never trust my wife again in the same manner that I did. I don't think that is a bad thing. If I had been a little less trusting in the first place (I knew they were seeing each other - but I thought as friends), then maybe much of this could have been avoided.

i dont think i have 2 months in me let alone 2 yrs. the difference with all this is your ws tried to make you comfortable nd secure i guess. mine really doesnt. he is home as much as possible yet when he is here the only conversation is about the day. and its always how bad his day was or what happened to him , i just wish i could make him understand i need to talk about the problems and feelings. i will say again.. he is emotionally retarted-counselors words- and i know it. that whats so difficult. i feel as if i push, he will just close off more. it just kills me that he opened up at least to some degree with her. i think i hate that more than anything. he is stalling with the counseling issues-he hasnt made new appt. yet because of money, yet went out yesterday and spent a couple hundred on god knows what. i know he is avoiding and i know i cant force him to face his past or emotional hang-ups, but what do i do in the mean time? if i push, isnt that love busting? he knows he isnt meeting my needs and he thinks he has a valid exc. for the life of me i dont get it other than its about him again-his pressure at work and such. well im doing it with all my stuff and i have to say im dealing with way more sh** than he is. i just dont get it other than im not facing the truth- he doesnt want to change and thinks i will accept this as a marriage??? i feel as if im sinking. oh yeah-the topper to the wonderfull day is his mom and sister are coming for dinner-no one knows. btw-the sis is a 3 time ow with a child. cant you picture me being gracious and serving them a gourmet meal in the frame of mind im in????? my life sucks!

just got back from taking son to school. i think im gonna take a nap now, maybe ill fell better when i wake up. if youve followed this i have one more question. is it time to think about a plan B? i dont know how to wake him up otherwise? any thoughts and help would be appreciated. off for my nap. bye