I don't for one minute think that you are to blame for my having an affair but I do know that although I made the choice, you presented me with the ammunition I use to defend it.
Where were you when I needed you? What was more important than me, your wife, the one you promised to always love and cherish? How do you justify your blatant neglect of me and our children? How do you justify the fact that your wants, your needs or lack thereof took precedence over what a marriage is about?
Yes I was the one who strayed. Yes it was I who became the infidel. It was I who opened my marriage, my life, my heart, my body to another man. You didn't even notice. You were busy doing your own thing and didn't see or feel me pulling slowly away.
I came back to my marriage, back to you. Not because you wanted me, quite the contrary. You didn't want me. You didn't even notice I was gone. I came back because of my children, our children. I came because of me.
And I suffer, silently, daily, nightly. Yes I suffer because you made the choice that nothing was more important than what you want, what you need. How long, do you suppose, it will be before I head down that path again? And do you even wonder if I will come back this time? Do you care one bit that another man took your place, if even only for a short while? Somehow I don't think it matters to you. I often wonder, did you ever love me?

Does your H know how you feel?

Yes he certainly does. I handed him this letter last night & I told him of my affair last month.

Was the letter your H's first indication of how you have been feeling? Or have you attempted some communication over time that he has simply rejected?

Hi J-C...
How did he react when he read it? If I remember, after you told him the first time he went back to watching TV...was this any different.<p>I've wondered how you were doing lately..Hope this wakes him up. How do you feel about it? Do you think this will help?

boomer hi, I'll preface this with a little story. My H has a terrible fear of rats, mice, gerbils anything like that. It stems back to his brother and sister hiding a mouse in his pillow case when he was 7 years old. He hates rats, despises them.
Last night I handed him this letter. Sat and watched him read it. Then watched as he walked to the den where the kids were watching Fear Factor, where he sat down and became totally engrossed in watching while rats were dumped onto people's heads. I knew I lost him. This is a battle I can't win and I'm no longer going to try. Thanks for your concern though.

J-C,<p>I think I understand your feelings of rejection, as I've lived them myself. Within a couple months of my wedding I became aware that I was no longer a priority in my H's life. Once he had me, he didn't waste very much time romancing me or doing any of the things *I* needed to feel loved. I would tell him specifically what I needed from him, and he would tell me why that was ridiculous and why I shouldn't need it. After all, he married me, didn't he?<p>I've had to take a back seat to nearly everything in his life for the entire M. Then, after 10 years of this, HE has an A. I spent the whole M protecting it from ME having an A because I felt so unloved and so rejected and knew how vulnerable I was should a man even pay me a simple compliment.<p>Then, after D-day, it quickly became apparent that my H just wanted the old M back and didn't want to end contact with OW, so that meant that the only difference for me was that he just added another thing ahead of me on his priority list.<p>Finally in January I told him that either he kept me and our M in the number 1 position in his life, or I wanted out. I was not going to endure everything I always had PLUS an A on top of it. Period. He now claims he wants what I want, and he actually has made some changes to keep me at the top of the list. Whether he'll do everything I need or not and whether it will last over the long-term remains to be seen.<p>I share all that because I identify with so much of what you wrote, but I think I may also perceive what may be happening in your H's head, especially when I combine the things my H shared with me about why he withheld from me and neglected me all those years and my feelings as a BS.<p>My H also felt rejected by me, and that's probably true in your H's case, especially in light of the A. It ends up becoming a vicious cycle where each of you closes up more and more. Maybe he feels like you don't love him and never did and he has given up and doesn't want to hope it can get any better. You sound that way, too, but you also sound frustrated about it.<p>The hardest thing for me to do was to try to meet my H's needs after the A. He had NEVER met my needs. I'd always had to make do on my own or do without. But when it gets to this impasse stage, that is the only hope. Someone has to break the logjam. And I know how unfair it feels when you feel you have been trying for so many years. It went against everything in me to work on meeting his needs, to CONTINUE to put his needs ahead of mine. It really SUCKED! I hated it. Sometimes still do.<p>But over these months, he has changed. It's not a lot and it's not nearly enough yet, but it's more than I've ever seen before. He opened up and told me why he withheld affection from me and why he would always shut me out. He is SCARED. I'm willing to bet your H is, too. He avoided intimacy through our entire M because if he let me in, I could hurt him more than he's ever been hurt before. Your H may be similarly guarding himself, but maybe inside he is yearning for you, to be close to you, to feel that love you both had at one time.<p>If you're feeling the same way deep inside, it may help to spend some time in contemplation about what you really truly want for you and for your family. It may look hopeless, but there may be more than meets the eye. I had to be wide open and soft and vulnerable myself before my H was able to let me in. It's a risk, but you really have nothing to lose.<p>Your letter may have revealed a lot, but what your H may have heard when he read it was that it is hopeless, that you couldn't possibly love him. If you have anything left of the tenderness you once felt for him, I encourage you to touch him with that instead. I know, you've done it so many times before, but try again and try to make yourself that "soft place to fall" for him. You may meet a man you've never seen before.

Wow j-c...i'm very sorry. I can't see how someone could be so "vanilla" about something so serious. Has he spoken to you since then? I know that fear factor was on Monday, so here it is Tues night, any new response?
Not sure what to tell you. He sounds either so depressed that he can't face it, or just plain out of it...
Keep your chin up...you're trying to do the right thing.

J-C,<p>It sounds to me like your husband may be suffering from depression. He may love you very much, but if he's sick then he's not going to give you the responses you need until he gets some help. I've been there - though not quite to the extent he's displaying.<p>Maybe you can try to encourage him to see a doctor?<p>It might help.<p>-HD<p>[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: HurtingDeeply ]</p>

double post [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: HurtingDeeply ]</p>

J-C,<p>I certainly understand what you have been through. Your H sounds a lot like my XH. Just and physical/emotional abuse and constant, repeat adultery to it. Neglect is a terrible emotional abuse. While I did not have a affair, even after 14 years of this, I can understand how a person can feel driven to one. <p>There is something I’m curious about. I’ve been reading the Divorce Busting books [url=http://www.divorcebusting.com/sample.html ]“Divorce Busting” and “Getting Through to the Man You Love”. [/url] Next I’ll read The Divorce Remedy: The Proven Seven-Step Program for Saving Your Marriage. I’m fascinated by her approach. And I believe it goes hand in hand with MB. Right now I’m using MB and DB in our marriage. MB saved our marriage after my discovering the affairs. Now I am using the DB material to get what I want/need without nagging. For example how to get more help around the house… or better yet, how to get him to take responsibility for more around the house. It’s working.<p>I am curious if you have ever read and tried the DB methods. Your relationship sounds like the examples she gives. Basically she says that one person can totally change a marriage because a relationship is like a dance.. if one partner changes dance step the other has to follow (my analogy)<p>I’m a an unrelenting optimist… I wonder if the DB material would help you.

boomer things here don't change ever unless the power or the cable go out. Then you'd think the world was coming to an end.<p>Thanks zorweb I have read through much of the divorce busting stuff to no avail. He isn't interested unless it's om TV. Maybe I should get my own TV show.<p>I have accepted my fate. I think divorce is the only way out. I'm so tired of feeling second (or third or fourth) best to a TV. <p>I appreciate all of the help and advice but I think the fate of my marriage was sealed that day, four years ago, when I flew to Cancun to meet Richard.<p>I'll be around reading and posting but I believe I'm going to file for divorce this week. <p>Luck and love

I'm sorry you don't feel like you have any other option, but I can certainly see why you feel that way. You sound like you have your head on straight. Good luck to you and your kids. I hope he comes to his senses and realizes what he is losing before it's too late.

J-C<p>more curiosity here.<p>The thing about the DB stuff is that he does not have to be interested. YOu make changes to your behavior. <p>So you followed this and he did not change his behavior?

I've read Dr. Laura's books on 10 Stupid Things Couples do to mess up their relationships - it's quite insightful. Her thinking is that by making Him the center of your world, he'll begin making You the center of his. We got rid of our TV 5 years ago because it was coming between us. We were both mature enough to agree that the content on TV was to bad and that it distracted us from each other. Hubbys A occurred after we got the internet and began substituting it for time with each other (both of us guilty of that). Fortunately we can see that and have subsequently quit viewing it as much. We are close to disconnecting it too. So far it has been manageable and neither have developed hard feelings about it. We used to spend 6 hours a day or more on it, and that has been reduced to no more than 1 hour a day - probably more like 15 minutes a day when you figure in all of the days we don't get on it at all. I hope this works out for you. Don't call it quits without putting aside your anger for him and trying to "serve" him - even though he may not deserve it in your eyes. The amount of energy you are willing to devote to attention to him will show you how much YOU want to really save the marriage.

I would rethink your entire letter...<p>I don't for one minute think that you are to blame for my having an affair but I do know that although I made the choice, you presented me with the ammunition I use to defend it.<p>Stop justifying.<p>Where were you when I needed you? What was more important than me, your wife, the one you promised to always love and cherish? How do you justify your blatant neglect of me and our children? How do you justify the fact that your wants, your needs or lack thereof took precedence over what a marriage is about?<p>Just more blaming. You spent the entire fist two paragraphs blaming and taking little responsibility.<p>Yes I was the one who strayed. Yes it was I who became the infidel. It was I who opened my marriage, my life, my heart, my body to another man. You didn't even notice. You were busy doing your own thing and didn't see or feel me pulling slowly away.<p>More blaming and justification. You use truth like a weapon. This does not communicate anything but agression to your spouse.<p>I came back to my marriage, back to you. Not because you wanted me, quite the contrary. You didn't want me. You didn't even notice I was gone. I came back because of my children, our children. I came because of me. <p>What is your point? To dismiss him? To make him feel horrible? You sure are doing a good job of it if you are. I know I would be steaming at this point if my wife wrote me this letter. How DARE her...<p>And I suffer, silently, daily, nightly. Yes I suffer because you made the choice that nothing was more important than what you want, what you need. <p>What that @#&$^*^#$!!! It was YOU! that made the choice that nothing was more important that what you want, what you need. This letter does NOTHING to salvage your marriage. As my MIL would say, you have written a recipe for divorce. You are taking out your feelings on him. You need to stop and treat him like you love him. As horrible as he may have been, it was your choice to have an affair, you are the ONLY person responsible for the actions you took. You need to take ownership of it and stop making excuses and blaming your husband.<p>How long, do you suppose, it will be before I head down that path again? <p>What is that? A threat? I sure your husband will love that. I sure that will really help him to trust you again. If your husband is smart, he will run the other way to get away from you if you honestly feel that you will do it again. If you don't feel you will, you are doing nothing but threating him and hurting him more. The simple fact that you are threatening to do it again shows just how little responsibility you have taken for your actions and just how little remorse you have.<p>And do you even wonder if I will come back this time? <p>Do you think he would want you back? You hurt him enough the first time I am sure. <p>Do you care one bit that another man took your place, if even only for a short while? <p>Damn, can you stop for once and consider just how much you probably did hurt your husband?<p>Somehow I don't think it matters to you. I often wonder, did you ever love me?<p>I am SOOO glad my wayward wife never acted this way. I probably would have divorced her after a letter like this.<p>[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Longing ]</p>

Longing if you had read her last post, you would have realized that she is now going to divorcer her H.<p>Normally your analysis would be right on the money if she was trying to rebuild her M, but that is no longer the case.<p>So while I beleive that with this letter she is trying to convey why she is going to divorce him, it is also written to convey her frustration with his detachment from her.<p>Her H seems to have some very serious problems with his addiction to the t.v., problems that he will not tell her or that he wants to overcome.
She has tried unsuccesfully to get his attention but he has totally ignored her.<p>If your W was like JC's H, I suspect that you too would have given up on her.<p>Joe

If your W was like JC's H, I suspect that you too would have given up on her.<p>You would be incorrect. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] My wife's escape (and it still is in many respects) is TV. She watches 15 hours of recorded TV a week. She records on two tvs at a time while watching a third. We have a satillite that can record up to 35 hours of TV. It was not uncommon for it to have 20+ hours of stuff saved on it.<p>My own escape from our marriage was internet games. I would hide out in our den and play for hours and hours at a time. I would also play roleplaying games online and in person quite frequently as an escape. I did not fully realize the destruction I was causing (nor did my wife effectively communicate such - she would nag me instead of sharing her feelings on the issue) in my marriage until I learned of the affair. <p>I have not played ANY games, in person or on the computer, online or otherwise, since.<p>Do I think her husband can change? Absolutely, I did. It is disrespectful to think a person CAN'T change. The only question is if they are willing.<p>I would suspect that a counselor could help her husband realize the damage he is causing. I know I would be very defensive (and I was) if my wife were to nag me about it or communicate to me about it in the same manner as this letter. It does not communicate a desire for the husband to change and why it is necessary. It simply points fingers.<p>Now I don't know about you, but when someone is blaming me and pointing fingers, the last thing I typically want to do is agree with what they are saying. That is simply human nature to rebel against such. In the past, if my wife were to nag me about the trash, I would take my time with taking it out. I would exercise my own power play - my own control over the situation so I would not feel as though I was being bossed around like a child.