Scarlett, <p>I agree.. positive is so much better.<p>MomRat,<p>At least one of these people has been banned a couple of times and keeps coming back. <p>But the rest of the uglyness? I think it's because the more and more people coming here all them time. Some are serious about MB and the others seem to just want a place to vent and trash.<p>Perhaps the remedy is as suggested... ignore the mean threads. However, I do think that some attempt to change the direction of the thread is in order. Otherwise, those who just want to vent will keep doing it.

Feel free to talk about how great I am as much as you want (pssst! I could use the ego boost [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] )

What's the use of BSs going to GloryB? I'd say it depends on how they have their intellectual and emotional valves set when they're there. If they're set for information to flow OUT and emotion to flow IN, they're going to lose on the deal. If they're set for information to flow IN and emotion to flow OUT, they'll probably gain on it.<p>On the intellectual pipeline, if people are hoping to pump knowledge out, to "educate" OWs into changing their behavior, I wouldn't expect that to have much effect either. That's an exercise in frustration. But if people are willing to let knowledge in instead, that can be valuable. As far as the OW is concerned, "know thine enemy" is good advice. That's in addition to everything an OW might have learned about why WSs go astray in the first place, and what might seduce them back. Any and all of this knowledge could be useful to help predict, forestall, detect, or within limits, "manage" or sabotage an affair. Knowledge is power.<p>Even when there's no scope for its practical application, I'm sure many people would prefer to understand why an affair happened in the past. A world that "makes sense," one operating by laws that can be roughly comprehended, is not only more satisfying, but more predictable and therefore more reassuring, than one of chaos in which any disaster might happen at any time without warning.<p>On the emotional pipeline it's the other way round. If a BS goes there looking for emotional support to flow in, that's unlikely. An influx of pain is more probable. But if people have emotions of their own that they want to unload on the denizens of GloryB instead, especially if they're good at shaming people, they may gain something from that. I wouldn't want to criticize that if it does the BS no harm.<p>Is it a "game"? Even if it is, does it matter? What's wrong with a bit of good honest aggression? Men may prefer to do battle in a physical arena, and women in an emotional arena, while the intellectual arena is shared by both. So Men invented Football, Boxing, and War, while Women invented Beauty Contests and Catfights. Men usually like it if women take an interest in their sport and cheer on their favorite team, or at least don't get in the way of their enjoyment of it. I don't see why men shouldn't do the same for women. I think Dr. Harley calls this "Recreational Companionship."<p>Of course that mustn't take the place of working on a marriage. But venting at the OW doesn't mean denying, ignoring, or failing to work on weaknesses in the partners or in the marriage that may have made it vulnerable to an affair. The second is a practical process, while the first is an emotional function. Why kick a tin can if we're angry? It doesn't improve anything, and certainly not the tin can, but it does make us feel better. If somebody has anger they need to dump, it's better to dump it by carpet-bombing some anonymous OWs, where there won't be any repercussions, than to dump it on their H in a mammoth lovebusting session, or to go around busting the real OW's windows and get arrested for it. So even is nothing is learned, I wouldn't say the war serves no purpose.<p>"All's fair in love and war." -- F. E. Smedley

Eddystone - You can't be serious!! The problems that have arisen had no origin in a BS simply accumulating knowledge. If that were the case I would agree with you.<p>What is happening here is simply a bunch of children at play. The MB'ers lash out at the OP, either here or at gloryb, then when there is "return fire"(using your war analogy), the standard MB response is to cry to mommy, saying the fight isn't fair and the opponent must be banned from the playground.<p>I have to admit, that, in fact, not everyone has responded as above. Zorweb, for one, really has approached this in a mostly, mature way. She tries to reason with the "enemy" at first. Then it may proceed to full engagement. When it's all said and done, however, it's not her normal modus operandi to start crying "Foul" and ranting about how much her feelings are hurt.<p>I don't really have a problem with how some MBers have handled this. But the ones that get engaged in the turmoil and then want their opponent banned from the board are really acting very, very immaturely. It's a good indication that they need some additional work on themselves before they can even think of having a "recovered" marriage. Therefore, they should stay out of the battles, and, for their best interests, not even read what is going on.<p>If they do this anyway, the intruder is not really to blame for their pain. They did it to themselves.<p>BTW, a lot of what you said made sense, but you cannot gain knowledge by trying to slay your teacher.

DeWayne, you're right that I had my tongue partway in my cheek just now, though not entirely by any means. So maybe there are two refinements to what I said. First, yes, I agree that learning from OWs and bashing OWs is an either/or proposition. A person can do one or the other, but not both at the same time. This reminds me of an essay topic I was set in high school: "There are two ways to enjoy the ownership of a bicycle: you may ride it, or you may take it to pieces and put it together again; but the one pleasure excludes the other. Discuss." And second, if there are emotional benefits in the sport of OW-bashing, they're only available to the winner of the game. If somebody has to cry uncle and ask for their opponent to be banned, they're announcing that they've just lost. So maybe they shouldn't be playing!--at any rate, not before they've had some practice on their own.

Eddystone - I love analogies and yours just made my all-time top five list....BEAUTIFUL!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by peppermint:
<strong>But the really sad thing is that some of the MBers aren't conducting themselves any better, and can't be mature enough to ignore them.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Dear peppermint,
I mean no disrespect because I admire you as a long-time MBer and I have read your posts to others so I know others respect and admire you as well...<p>The thing I'm wondering is when has anyone from gloryb ever actually called out your screenname or one of your dear buds in a post and proceeded to attack you in the nastiest way? How could you ignore that?<p>In case you were talking about me since I DID respond to Lisa-OW on GQII as well as read her really nasty thread to BS's on EN, let me just say that I respect zorweb a lot and something like that could cause us to LOSE a valuable MBer.<p>Thank goodness zorweb knows her purpose for being an MBer (TO HELP PEOPLE), and she is not afraid to confront the trolls head on.<p>WHY keep up on what's being posted on gloryb? For one thing, it does keep MBers aware of intruders and where they are coming from. I don't believe that OPs are "the enemy" per se, but there have been times when invasions have occurred and if it was not for MBers who were in the know, more damage could have been done than was.<p>Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall ever reading your name being called out by an OP flamer... And until I see how you respond to something like that, I don't think it's really fair of you to make a statement like this against those of us who choose to reply to those types of threads or support our friends.

BTDT,<p>I wasn't talking about you or any particular poster. I simply don't see how it is effective to do the very thing you are offended by. Why is it okay for a MBer to go to the TOW board and troll there, but wrong for the reverse to happen? Seems kind of like poking a dog with a sharp stick and then complaining when they bite.........<p>And yes, I have been "called out" and insulted on this board a few times. Not by anyone from the TOW board because I don't engage in stuff like that. But by people just like you who don't like something I say just like you didnt like the fact that I said the current behavior here is sad. In fact, the maddest I have ever been was probably when your "bud's" husband really stepped over the line with his abuse. But that's okay. It's a free world, isn't it? I don't have to participate in the sniping, and I choose not to. But you know what, I still think that it is sad, immature, and damages the true purpose of this board. But since it upsets you so much, I just won't SAY it anymore.<p>Peppermint

IMO, it comes down to choices. I choose to remain here at MB where I know I will find the support and encouragement from people I consider close friends. This is a Marriage Builders site, and that is exactly why I am here, there is no other place around that offers what MB does.<p>I have read some of those threads and find it rather disgusting, so I dont even bother with them anymore. <p>If there are people who feel compelled to come here and start problems, lash out and cause us even more pain, I guess that is thier choice, But, I choose not to get caught up in all of that, I have more important things to do with my life.<p>just my opinion.

Peppermint,<p>Here here!!
You said what I wanted to in a much more polite and less finger pointing way.
(You got my letter???)<p>BTDT,<p>As peppermint stated, the reason she hasn't been "called out" by any Gloryb members is because she hasn't gone out of her way to harass and track down people on the board over there.
There always has been "trolls" coming over here it's just that recently MB members have stooped to playing the same kind of games they claim to hate in the OW's.
I'm sorry if that offends you but it is JMHO.<p>{{{{{{{{Peppermint}}}}}}}}} [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Hey Nicole,<p>Yes, I got your letter. THANK YOU! I can't chat tonight, but is tomorrow good for you? Let me know.<p>Love you!<p>Peppermint

Peppermint,
Tomorrow sounds great.
Write me and let me know what time is good for you.

Self-righteousness is a vanity. Vanity is a sin.<p>[ March 10, 2002: Message edited by: zorweb ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by peppermint:
<strong>I wasn't talking about you or any particular poster. I simply don't see how it is effective to do the very thing you are offended by. Why is it okay for a MBer to go to the TOW board and troll there, but wrong for the reverse to happen? Seems kind of like poking a dog with a sharp stick and then complaining when they bite.........
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I understand your point. It just seemed like the timing of your thoughts were coincidental and seemed critical. I can't speak for zorweb but I doubt very seriously if zorweb posts at gloryb, I certainly don't.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by peppermint:
<strong>...And yes, I have been "called out" and insulted on this board a few times. Not by anyone from the TOW board because I don't engage in stuff like that. But by people just like you who don't like something I say just like you didnt like the fact that I said the current behavior here is sad.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I mentioned your name not to insult you in any way. I was more curious about your feelings. I went out of my way to mention how much I respected you and other long-time MBers. I thought it was interesting because you started your REUNION thread and specifically mentioned things and I was curious about what your reaction would be if it was you.<p>Personally, I don't believe that zorweb is targeted because she "trolls at gloryb"??? I think she is targeted because she is a true-blue MBer and is making a difference. I think she is gutsy to keep herself abreast of what is being said about MBers over there. Frankly, I don't have the nerve to be lurking there all the time. You're right it IS sad... I already know my past and my thinking and even back then as a former OW, I KNOW I had NO delusions of the MM leaving his family for ME!?!??<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by peppermint:
<strong> In fact, the maddest I have ever been was probably when your "bud's" husband really stepped over the line with his abuse. But that's okay. It's a free world, isn't it? I don't have to participate in the sniping, and I choose not to. But you know what, I still think that it is sad, immature, and damages the true purpose of this board. But since it upsets you so much, I just won't SAY it anymore.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Oh, you mean the humblefish thread. Maybe it wouldn't have crossed the line if the person was seriously seeking MB advice. Sometimes you can tell when someone is truly seeking advice or when they are just here to play accusatory games. Whatever is fair.<p>You can say whatever you like. I am not upset in the least, I was just curious, is all.<p>I do also think it is damaging to the board when MBers don't all pull together for the common good. Since I have been reading, this board has always contained much more good than bad, but that is just my opinion...<p>[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

Thanks for the further clarification, BTDT.<p>I'm not sure where you first got the idea that I was criticizing zorweb, because I wasn't specifically. If anyone wants to "monitor" the other board, it is well within their rights. I don't think coming here and posting links, etc. is productive and I haven't seen anything good come from it.<p>And since you mentioned the Humblefish thing, I do think that was the beginning of the intermingling of MB and TOW, and I did find the whole thing quite offensive, but I stayed away from it.<p>However, another longtime member and I both started posts about staying on the subject of building and rebuilding marriages, and both of us were "called out", quite viciously I thought, by zorweb's husband. In fact, I think we both left MB for quite a while after that. My point is that it is not only members of TOW board who are abusive and hurtful.<p>I don't know why you found my comment so upsetting, but it wasn't aimed at you, zorweb, or anyone specifically.

Has this thread gone off topic, or what? <p>Why should ANYone (old member, new member, in-between member) have to DEFEND themselves against anyone?<p>I've been accused of doing some fancy foot work on the "revisionist history" of this board. I remember it being loving and supportive and filled with Harley-esque advice. I guess there have always been some who attacked, but I choose to remember the good, not the bad. But because of that, when the bad does come, it comes with a vengence. I see a lot of BAD lately!<p>BTDT, you and I have talked not long ago on another thread about this stuff, haven't we? I mean, sheesh, I've posted over 6000 posts total! I've been "called out" a time or two myself, and attacked, BIG TIME. One of my favorite posters (who I completely adore as a fellow-member here) said I came here and "lured" my H away from his W! If you want to read my story (as long and boring as it is), do a search. I met my H here, on these boards. I have been attacked, berated, made fun of... and then also... loved, hugged, protected... it's just like REAL LIFE.<p>I admit it - I wish we'd all just get along. I like harmony and peace and all that jazz. But with people comes differences. I just don't see why it has to be such a struggle all the time.<p>This whole gloryb thing is so incredibly stupid. In the midst of my having been betrayed, the LAST thing I ever cared about was how the OW's were feeling. But, two each their own, I guess.

newbeginning - i love your way of thinking. i got into it over on gloryb, and they started throwing out how long i'd been a poster there and how many posts i made, like that matters at all. they look for anything they can to mess with you because they can't actually justify their actions. and they go on and on about their pain, and how no one recognizes their (self inflicted) sorrows and struggles. i like to go over from time to time and see who's bubble has been burst when come to find out they've been duped and mm never intended to leave his family. i've decided to also not post there anymore, it does no good. but, i also agree if you go there, be prepared for what you are going to read. if you are in a place where it could really affect you, i wouldn't recommend it. just try to think karma... and let the Lord do His work... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by new_beginning:
<strong>Has this thread gone off topic, or what?
...BTDT, you and I have talked not long ago on another thread about this stuff, haven't we? I mean, sheesh...</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Yes, yes, yes, we have. I mean no disrespect to you new_beginning, because I AM familiar with your story and I do remember when you changed your name from Nyneve and everything... I mean no disrespect to you, I appreciate all your thoughts. It's just that I was interested in peppermint's feelings regarding her statement on this thread and was thinking that I had a better chance of tracking down her feelings and thoughts on her own thread. I apologize for offending by veering off the topic. SHEESH is right!<p>Obviously she was deeply hurt by a MBer. I agree, MBers should be all on one team, however, it is difficult when misunderstandings occur and they go unresolved.<p>I don't think any MBer should allow themselves to be run off by anyone, BS, WS, OW, regardless. Although, sometimes people's remarks can hurt a lot--enough to make you just wonder what's the use.<p>Oh well, to further digress from the topic, Heartpain, do you have a twin brother?<p>[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

BTDT -
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>do you have a twin brother?<hr></blockquote>
I can only assume that since you've spent the last few days taking shots at Sheryl and Peppermint, that it is my turn...

I was the one who had the A in my marriage. That has been over for almost 1 1/2 yrs now. I was looking for help in repairing my marriage but had no idea where to look. I did an internet search for "infidelity" hoping to find some information. I was directed to a site that sounds pretty much like gloryb although I've never been to glorybs. After making several posts someone graciously gave me the address for MBs saying I would find the type of help I was looking for here. After I came here I only made one more post at the other site to thank this person and I haven't been back there since. So maybe it is good to have a little back and forth at these sites or I never would have found this place.