mmseekingadvice,<p>I guarantee if you tell your wife everything (have you read radical honesty?) those goofy feelings for OW WILL GO AWAY. isn't that what you want??<p>Please consider it!

Yes, I have read about radical honesty, but I simply can not tell my wife. The hurt would be too much. I would rather hurt alone, and work it out than bring pain to someone else. That seems to be selfish, having someone else feel my pain as a way for me to end this. Better to go it alone

Sir, Let me tell you my WHs experience. He broke of the A and no they did not have sex either. But he still admits it was an A. He said about a week after he broke it off, the blinders began to peel back and he begin to see her for what she really was and was doing to him. His situation was very similar to yours. Take the initiative and verbally tell this woman you have no use for her anymore. My hubby did this over the phone after a physical incident. It gave him the strength to do it by not being face to face with her. Take the bull by the horns and dump her. And be sure you really mean it when you do.

I don't want to be cruel to this woman. She did nothing wrong. I think the best approach is to just let the fire die out, so to speak. That way she is not hurt and my wife is not hurt. I go through the pain, but it was me who brought it on myself.<p>I am still not sure if I had an affair. I would say I was headed towards one -- an EA.

Yes, you are in the midst of an emotional affair. You touched another woman, told her your feelings, and obsessed about her instead of your wife. That's definitely an affair. By the way, we learned in counseling that one of the best reasons for telling your spouse the truth is it helps to prevent another affair. If you sweep this under the rug, you're not treating the problem and you may do it again.

MM,
You are getting excellent advice. Please take it seriously. If you weren't concerned about it being an affair you wouldn't be here. <p>I wish that I had come here and received some of this advice before my EA became physical.<p>I used to try and convince myself that I was not having an affair. I think that is what they call the fog here. It was my way of trying to convince myself I wasn't doing anything wrong.<p>And don't worry about hurting the OW. Who is more important here? Her or your W. Think about it.
1step

I just could not be cruel to this woman. All we have done is talked, I have held her hand, held her a couple times. I dont think she would consider it an affair, and I cut her off, be cold, it would be quite hurtful to her and that seems just mean on my part.

And you fantisizing and wanting this OW isn't mean to your wife?<p>MM, even tho your wife does not know of your feelings, in the abstract you are definitely affecting your marriage and your family.<p>Your fantasy was caused by unmet needs, do you know what those needs are? If you think you do, go home and tell your wife of them. Tell her she is the one you want to meet those needs, and believe me SHE CAN, but you first have to give her a chance to by telling her.<p>I feel your pain, BUT ... I also feel the potential pain you WILL be causing your wife and family if you don't allow your wife to know you have unmet needs.<p>Lv,
Jo

Are you serious, mm? Maybe you should look at what you just posted:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I just could not be cruel to this woman. All we have done is talked, I have held her hand, held her a couple times. I dont think she would consider it an affair, and I cut her off, be cold, it would be quite hurtful to her and that seems just mean on my part.<hr></blockquote><p>You've said you don't want to tell your wife and hurt her---DO YOU REALLY THINK SHE DOESN'T KNOW SOMETHING'S GOING ON? The only way in the world to make this right is to come clean and spill your guts...otherwise it never will be behind you and it will be almost impossible to move on.<p>I'm posting about my husband's non-sex thing with another woman. Trust me--your wife knows somethings up!

In addiction, "logic does not apply". As far as radical honesty goes, every time H tells me more about his affair, I love him more. It`s when he hides things, thoughts, feelings, things he has said or done, things she or any other woman has said or done with him that I would not feel comfortable with, that I feel UNSAFE. I can always tell when something is just not quite right. Womans intuition I guess. Your wife has the right to know all about the person she is married to. The good the bad and the ugly. Otherwise you are forcing her to live a lie. If my H would tell me right this minute that he is in the middle of the same affair or even a new one I would have the utmost respect for his COURAGE and HONESTY. Then he and I could make choices as to how to make our future together better if we wish. My H is currently unsure of his love for me and that HURTS, but it is very important information. And yes you did have an EA with some physical aspects to it and no spouse would be pleased with the inappropriate interaction between you and OW. And yes she DID do something wrong and so did you. The fog is still thick, actually it is SMOG, you are putting up a smokescreen between you and us and your wife BECAUSE your are in the fog. Hope your work session with OW was produtive. Good luck to you.

re: Honesty and Openness, Harley describes 3 types of liars, which one are you, mm???<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Honesty & Openness by Dr.Harley:
<strong>
In my book, His Needs, Her Needs (chapter 7), I write about three kinds of liars: 1) born liars, 2) avoid trouble liars and 3) protector liars. From what you've said about her, she sounds like the avoid trouble liar. These people do things that they know are unacceptable, then when confronted they lie to avoid getting into trouble. Here are some of the points I make in this chapter: <p>The born liar is different than the avoid trouble liar in that he doesn't seem to know the difference between truth and fiction, and makes things up for no apparent reason or purpose. An avoid trouble liar, on the other hand, is very much aware of the truth and only lies to avoid getting into trouble. <p>The "avoid trouble" liar is used to getting their way. They usually have a long history of agreeing to anything and then doing what they please. When confronted with their lie, they promise they will never do it again, another lie, of course. They are usually very cheerful people because they are living a life that suits them just fine. If people would just stop telling them what to do, they think there would be no need for dishonesty. What they think makes them dishonest, is people trying to change them. They don't think it's right, so they tell people whatever they want to hear just to get them off their backs. <p>The way to help an "avoid trouble" liar learn to be truthful is to focus attention on honesty and ignore everything else for a while...
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Honesty & Openness

I really don't think you are thinking about your wife OR the other woman. You're trying to protect yourself and hold on to your fantasy.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mmseekingadvice:
<strong>I don't want to be cruel to this woman. She did nothing wrong. I think the best approach is to just let the fire die out, so to speak. That way she is not hurt and my wife is not hurt. I go through the pain, but it was me who brought it on myself.<p>I am still not sure if I had an affair. I would say I was headed towards one -- an EA.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
You are being selfish and disrespectful by continueing to lie by omission to your wife. You ahve already hurt your wife. Don't hurt her further being disrespecting her. Secrets do more damage to a marriage than infidelity does.<p>You doubted our advice for days. Pleaes take our word for it, you had an affair.<p>From Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary:
affair: a romantic or passionate attachment typically of limited duration.

MM,<p>I have avoided your threads because where you are right now is just too painful and frustrating to me, too much like dealing with my own H. On a different thread, you said you admire and respect me. Does that mean you will listen to me and heed me now?<p>SNL (the WS in his M) said it very well, and it was something like this: I didn't want to tell my W because I didn't want to cause her any pain, but deep down I knew the REAL reason I didn't want to tell her was because I was protecting myself from facing and revealing that I was RESPONSIBLE FOR her pain.<p>Everyone has said it on this thread: You have already hurt your wife. You have already damaged your M. If you continue to lie to your W, whether by commission or omission, your M will never be all it can be. It will be based on illusion, i.e. lies, and it will continue to deteriorate.<p>Will you STOP hurting and disrespecting your W and your M or not?<p>Continuing the illusion=Disrespect, NO intimacy
Truth and reality=Love, respect, intimacy<p>This has also been pointed out to you: Your W probably already knows more than you think she does, and there is no doubt that she is already in pain because the fact is that YOU HAVE EMOTIONALLY ABANDONED HER! Do not delude yourself into thinking that she does not already feel your EMOTIONAL ABANDONMENT. She probably felt it long before you even met your OW because that usually takes place before the opportunity for an A turns up and sets the stage for an A.<p>Anyone who has experienced emotional abandonment knows exactly how painful it feels. When we go through that, we think it's OURSELVES. We think there must be something terribly wrong with us that the one to whom we entrusted our life has rejected us. If nothing else, the truth reveals the REASON for our feelings of abandonment--it finally makes sense!<p>Back in September, I had already seen the attorney and had all the paperwork I had to fill out in hand. I'd already had a realtor over to discuss listing the house. I'd already gotten my job back that I had quit the year before. I was already emotionally out of the M and moving on. And all of this was because of the SUSPICION that my H was having an A. I didn't need any more than that and his obvious emotional divorce from me to make it a divorce indeed.<p>The ONLY thing that made me decide to change direction was that my H was MAN enough to come to me, confess, apologize, ask for my forgiveness, and promise to fix what he broke.<p>What it boils down to, MM, is this: Are you going to be a man or a mouse?<p>[ March 08, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

I have been following your advice and it has been good. But I simply will not tell my wife about this for a couple reasons:<p>1. I don't think it was an affair. It was an infatuation, perhaps. An obsession, but not an affair. I am not trying split hairs, but I guess my definition of an affair involves much more than what I did with this woman.<p>2. The woman is a very nice woman. She never led me on or did anything fliratious. It was all me who brought on the situation. So why cut her off cooly. It seems cruel. I think that when this project of mine is over, our friendship will slowly die a natural death. In that way I do not hurt her feelings.<p>3. As for my wife, it would only cause her a tremendous amount of pain. And for what? I am not having an affair with this woman, and I am not planing to have one. If the goal of telling my wife is to prevent me fromt having an affair, I can do that myself. I don't need to have her broken heart tell me that. <p>I am not racked with guilt. I feel foolish, but not overwhelmed with guilt that I feel the need to wash away my mistakes by hurting others.

mm,
How are you today? Check in with us. We've given you lots to think about. Some of it is pretty direct and straight-forward. Sometimes medicine tastes bad, but we need to take it. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Please keep in touch and keep us posted - what you think about our feedback - and what's going on with your W, and the OW.<p>You can do this!<p>EDIT: HAHA!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] You read my mind and posted just what I was looking for! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ March 08, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

There are many types of affairs. You need to read and re-read the definition of emotional affairs. They are just as harmful to a marriage and yes, they are a betrayal. I think you are being selfish. Sorry if that sounds harsh. But it's my opinion. And I have been there long enough and through enough of this to know what it feels like on the other side.

35 posts, clear, succinct advice, and you still don't get it? Your continued denial will lead you smack into a physical affair (I can hear more denials from you already), your wife will find out and be devastated, and then you'll come back here asking what to do again.<p>You already know what to do - DO IT!!!

Okay, this is the last time I'm going to try to reason with you. Maybe you can hear me now and listen to me later.<p>Can you not see that your statements #1 and #3 are in direct contradictation to each other? If your R with the OW is not an A, when why on earth would telling your W cause your W any pain?<p>And as far as #2 is concerned, I'll say to you what I said to my H on my way out the door when he balked at telling me his OW's last name: If and when you decide you're going to protect your W, let me know.<p>You've referred to yourself as a schoolboy. When you're ready to grow up, I'll be happy to help you with what I've learned from MB. Right now, you're not listening. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

PLEASE tell your wife. THink about it... voice some ideas here on exactly what to say. <p>My H started his A just as "friends", but I didn't have a clue it would/could lead anywhere else. He's always had female friends, and there's NEVER been a problem. Stress at my work and other things in our life (trying to get pregnant) gave him the PERFECT excuse to get closer to her emotionally, further away from me, which caused MORE tension at home, which caused MORE reason for him to want to "get out". If he had been up front with me about his close-ness with her, I could've helped him. I might have found MB sooner, and began my Plan A instead of LB'ing him right out the door when he dragged me into those confrontational conversations/fights.<p>Bottom line. TELL her. And then TELL HER you LOVE her. You NEED to be HONEST about this, or it will happen AGAIN!!!!<p>please keep posting and being honest with us. Don't let our reactions cause you to ignore us. We have all been in this mess for a long time. Your thoughts and feelings are NORMAL, but lean on us to help you work through them... k???