I maybe can see this being an EA, but a PA? Not my definition of a physical affair.<p>I am not trying to be martyr and act like I am suffering. My point originally was that I was torn up about ending this a few weeks ago, and have come to terms with that. At the time, I was asking for advice on how to get over the hurt.<p>But now that I am over it, now tha I am not going to pursue a relationship with this woman, why would I tell anyone?<p>That's my point. What good does it do anyone?<p>If I am not suffering, have my head on straight, then I am not the problem.<p>If my friend never considered it an affair at all, and has told no one, then she is not the problem.<p>It seems the ONLY way to make it a problem -- a huge problem for everyone -- would be for me to feel like I have to be honest about the past.<p>That serves no purpose.<p>Now, if I was going to try and work closely with this woman, or if I still was trying to have an affair, I could see why I would need to throw water on a smoldering fire.<p>But the fire is out.<p>The policy of honesty can be taken to the absurd, it seems. Would a spouse tell about an affair 30 years ago during the war? Something 15 years ago during a business trip?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>If I am not suffering, have my head on straight, then I am not the problem. <hr></blockquote><p>Really? Who is it then who broke his marriage vows, betrayed his wife's martial trust, and has not figured out why he gave into his weakness in the first place? Who is the man who caressed and exchanged tender words with another man's wife? What is going to keep you from falling for some attractive business associate in the future?<p>So, if YOU and the OW are not hurt by your actions, there is no problem? Do you think that you have not created a HUGE problem for your wife? You have become a man she cannot trust with her most intimate emotions. She has an untrustworthy husband! And you are not the problem? Then who is?<p>Estes

If no one knows about how I felt toward my friend, who is hurt?<p>If the past is history, why bring it up?

So what's up with this other affair from before? You seem to have blown over that one pretty quickly. See a pattern here? <p>
DENIAL

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mmseekingadvice:
<strong>If no one knows about how I felt toward my friend, who is hurt?<p>If the past is history, why bring it up?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well, I see your point. Maybe your thinking is what she doesn't know won't hurt her, and that's fine if you believe that is best for your marriage. The only one who seems to really have gotten hurt in all this mess is you! BUT, if you are more honest with your wife and with yourself (keep saying it was nothing when it WAS something), it could all be avoided.<p>The past is not the point, HONESTY is the point.<p>No one is here to change your mind, but just to tell you what you should do and frankly, I don't know what I would do if I were in your shoes today, really. Because I do hear what you have said and keep stressing.<p>Still, you can promise yourself that from now on--from this point forward--that you will solicit your wife's opinions on your private lunch dates with other women or business associates or old girlfriends or whoever--FEMALES, and see if she agrees with it.<p>I bet if you asked your wife point blank in advance if she has a problem with you having lunch with women from work it would be interesting how it might change the entire picture. You say it was all business, but if you were at home lying in bed fantasizing about the business associate and all that, it HAD to have affected your relationship with your W to SOME degree... ESPECIALLY from your W's perspective, maybe some unexplained behaviors of yours that she noticed.<p>So what if you decided that from now on, now that you know about the policy of radical honesty, you could proceed in your marriage facing and sharing more truth? Maybe print out the article and share it with your wife, get her opinions and get active in your own MB efforts?? What if?

MM, quick question for you...YOu insist you are not having/have not had an affair with your friend.
ok, Question is this: What if your WIFE had a friend like you are a friend to the OW? And everything that is being felt and saidaend done by you to the OW was being said and felt and done by your W to OM? Would THAT be an affair?<p>One thing my H said he did,upon deciding to end his affair and confess it to me, was to envision an accident and who would he want there holding his hand at the "end", me,his W of 27 yrs or the OW, a 2 month long internet relationship.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mmseekingadvice:
<strong>If no one knows about how I felt toward my friend, who is hurt?<p>If the past is history, why bring it up?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
You bring it up because it is part of being historically and completely honest.<p>You wanted to hear from a person that never told about an affair....<p>I am such a person.<p>I did not have an affair on my wife but I did cheat on a previous girlfriend. I never told her. I was never able to get over that lack of honesty, that lack of intimacy, that my dishonesty created. I STILL think about that dishonesty.<p>Recently, I was dishonest with my wife. I read her journal. She specifically had asked me not to. This was during our initial recovery. I did not tell her for nearly two weeks. My counselor said that it was hypocritical for me to expect my wife to be honest if I was not willing to do so as well. He was right.<p>You cannot chose what your spouse is honest about. Would you want her to lie to you about an affair? Would you want her to deny that such was occuring? What a lousy marriage you must hope to have if being dishonest is one of the founding principles you both enjoy in your relationship.<p>Keeping that secret from my wife tore me up inside. It created a lack of intimacy on my part. I don't think that sort of guilt ever fully goes away. I eventually told my wife about the journal. She was very upset but we have gotten over it. I now no longer have secrets that keep me from having a fully intimate relationship with my wife.<p>If you have read this site, you will know the necessity for honesty. <p>Ann Landers is not a marriage counselor.<p>I have tried to help you with quite a few posts on this issue. You have argued with all of us every step of the way. There comes a time when we simply begin to waste our breath (or in this case, our keystrokes). If you have no intent of being honest in your marriage, I have no further intent of helping you. I want to help you have a safe and loving relationship with your wife. If you have no desire to do that, my further advice is wasted.<p>Best of luck to you and I hope you come to realize the necessity for honesty.

The policy of honesty can be taken to the absurd, it seems.<p>It is only absurd because too many people have been taught otherwise - that it is OK to lie for the purposes of protecting others. In fact, it provides no protection. Truth provides the protection.<p>Would a spouse tell about an affair 30 years ago during the war? <p>Yes, and they should have told about it long ago.<p>Something 15 years ago during a business trip?<p>Again, yes.<p>Would you confess and ask for forgiveness of sins you made 15 years ago or would you assume that your God is not concerned with such?<p>It is your choice, it is your soul, it is your marriage.

Been thinking about this one and here is my last ditch effort to help to at see another reason why it is important to tell your W.<p>My H has a history of inappropriate friendships with women...he would talk/flirt and they would want more.He was never going to sleep with these people so he would bring ME into the picture,stressing to me that it was friendship only and that he was not responsible for how ever THEY felt. They would become friendly with me and he felt protected. <p>He is a terrible judge of character, which is why the internet proved to be so bad for him. If he had admitted the attraction he felt for those other women, I MAYBE would have been somewhat prepared for what wound up happening. HE is not the best judge of his own behavior...AND NOW, he wishes with all his heart that he had told me in the very beginnning of his "relationship, what was happening.because he KNOWS if he had, it would not have happened.He realizes that it is LUDICROUS that he "had feelings" for that particular person. This has happened before, he has made friends with less than worthy people(wife beaters, serial cheaters, alcoholics,lonely pathetic women and men)all his life. Even with my counsel, when I see right thru theses people, he will not admit his neediness for what ever it really is.<p>And you think you can overcome this alone...yeah, just like my H did...maybe til the next time...for no other reason than your own protection from becoming that which you despise,LET YOUR WIFE IN. It wasn't POSSIBLE for my H either...look around here, more than one man has said he just doesn't understand how it could have happened. NO matter HOW MUCH you think you have control, these "love" feelings make it feel as tho it is right.It's not til after when you realize it isn't worth it.<p>Your W KNOWS something is up...relieve her and tell her she is not going insane...IT's is so much better than being in the dark and KNOWING and being told you are wrong, when you are NOT.Time to be a big boy and take the consequences of your actions...your W WILL be hurt but I guarantee you, no matter how much you think you have covered your tracks, SHE IS ALREADY HURT...YOu are HELPING your relationship with your W, if you tell the WHOLE truth. BUt you will be killing the one with OW...maybe THAT is what you don't want to do!

I do agree with one person who said my wife may have known something was up in the fall when I admit that I was obsessed with this woman. She was not as obsessed with me, clearly in control. But I was thinking about her all the time and feeling low. I know my wife did notice that, but attributed it to work. Now, she says that I am back to normal. So why bring up the past?

BECAUSE IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO IF YOU WANT A HEALTHY, HONEST MARRIAGE.<p>Once again, are you going to elaborate on the previous affair? When it occured? Does your wife know, etc?

How many of the people who had affairs are telling me to tell my wife because they got caught?
This is the only place I have ever heard anyone say to tell your spouse about an affair. But all of the people posting -- or the vast majority of those -- are the BS. I would like to hear from the person who did not tell, went on to find peace and never regretted not telling. [/B]<p>mm,
my husband felt the same as you, he wanted to spare me the pain, but what he didn't realize was that the ow did not care about my pain and did everything she could to "help" me to find out about the A.
Do you want to go through life wondering if she will tell your W?
My H and I are much closer now without the secrets that he was keeping. What saved out M is that he did finaly tell me, after I traced her phone calls (we won't even get into that!)<p>I don't want to be cruel to this woman. She did nothing wrong. I think the best approach is to just let the fire die out, so to speak. That way she is not hurt and my wife is not hurt. I go through the pain, but it was me who brought it on myself.[B]<p>I know that this was earlier in your post, but need to fill you in, she did do something wrong and knew what she was getting into when she decided to be with a married man. Let it go and concentrate on your wife, the woman that you made a commitment to, the woman that you vowed to love forever. You owe nothing to the ow. I'm not trying to judge the ow, I just think that your wife should come first, if you do love her.
bw 37
wh 43
m19y
2c
d18
s14

Testimony by a WS of "WHY" you Tell
authored by Regretting (copied from the Recovery Brd)<p>--------------------------------------------------
Great topic. One many people, including myself, have been or are struggling with.<p>In my case, my H found out about the A before I could tell him. And then the questions started. I had never planned on telling him about the A at all let alone any of the details. I was resistant at first but eventually came clean on all of it. <p>In retrospect, I can say that I didn't want him to know and didn't want to give details because of my embarrassment. I didn't want to hurt him but it was the embarrassment that was the biggest thing. But despite the embarrassment on my part and the hurt on his, I believe (and I think he would agree) we are better off in the long run for it. <p>Since the inital disclosure, there have been questions that we deam "details". These are some of the hardest questions to answer but I do. I always tell him that these answer are details and let him descide if he really wants to know. If he does, I tell. Honesty and openness is one of the biggest things is rebuilding trust. <p>Although we both continue to struggle with is knowing better than now knowing, we have recently found that the details aren't as bad as they were a few months back. And it is hard not to revisit things once they have been said. Dr. Harley says to reveal everything and the leave it alone. That is easier said than done. These conversations are always ackward and difficult but honesty and openness is best in my opinion.<p>Once upon a time, I could not have imagine telling my H the things I have told him over the last few months. But now that I have...I'm really glad I did. We are working on recovering our M. In order to do that, we both have be be playing on a level playing field with the same rules! <p>Telling all is the only way to do that!<p>[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>]MM posted:<p>How many of the people who had affairs are telling me to tell my wife because they got caught? <hr></blockquote><p>And the reason for that is because it really is better to offer the information up front. If the BS finds out any other way, (ie. getting "caught")it's a lot worse. It destroys trust. If you were to ask my H he would tell you he wishes I would have told him up front. It's not very fun finding out you've been betrayed in the first place but to find out that your spouse had no immediate intention of telling is worse. <p>1step

The only thing I might say is that my ""affair'' was a borderline EA and had great intensity for two months and then died out. If it was on-going and I was contemplating leaving wife, or she her husband, I could see being honest.<p>But this friendship is not going anywhere in terms of an affair.<p>End it -- yes
Learn from it -- yes
But tell about it -- no

Are you referring to the current situation or the 1st affair that you have mentioned but refuse to discuss? It could shed a lot of light on your situation and just may help you!

The current situation. The other was a full, all-out affair that I ended after three months

Thanks for clearing that up. Was this when you were married to your current wife? Did she know? How did you resolve it?

mm,
My husband got caught in an affair around our 10th year of marriage. I was willing to forgive him for this as he was truely repentant and changed his behavior completely. We were to have an honest and trustworthy marriage from that point on. Well, fastforward to almost 20 years later! He said the affair he confessed to years ago was actually his 3rd affair. At the time he thought I would definately divorce him if I knew the entire story.I felt like my marriage was nothing but a big fat lie. I got very depressed and had to go on anti-depressants to cope. Our marriage would have been much better off today if he had been truthful with me 20 years ago. I hope you never have to regret your decision to keep your secrets,as it will forever build a wall between you and your spouse.

Well said! I don't think that anyone who hasn't been lied to by their spouse for years about a previous affair can really understand the unique pain it causes. I hate that my H wasn't honest 6 years ago - we were separated for almost a year so why lie about it? It's so much harder now, thinking that everything that transpired during those years was based on deceit. <p>mm-everyone has basically told you the same thing. Do you think that those of us who have been through this are all lying? Or wrong? <p>I hope you see the light.