Just venting here -- it helps me to write stuff down and put it on an open forum where I know at least a couple of people will see it and can relate.<p>Last night my husband and I went out to a local bar (the first time in 4 1/2 years!). During the course of our conversation this question came up (it was a legitimate question in context) -- has the OW ever been to our home? He asked me if I really wanted to know that, and of course after asking the question I did want to know. So he was honest and said yes that she had been there once. And then it hit me -- she was there Thanksgiving (I had gone to my family's but he had to work). When I called him on Thanksgiving day he told me he had a birthday surprise for me. He had cleaned the house! I was so happy and tickled because he never cleans and told him it was the perfect gift. <p>I was suspicious when I got home because he had washed the sheets and put them back on the bed, but had not secured them (we had a water bed -- thank goodness we got rid of the thing shortly thereafter!) and they were not messed up -- so I suspected he hadn't slept in the bed. What really, really hurt was that he cleaned our house (he never does housework) so he could bring her over and then tells me he did it for my birthday present so I wouldn't question his uncharacteristic behavior -- and I guess also that way he doesn't have to give me a real gift. <p>I sat at the bar for a minute or two, but couldn't help breaking down, so I ran into the bathroom and cried. My initial reaction was to go back out there and confess to him a fact I've lied about for years -- during our 1st separation, I got involved with another man, he knew about that and he knew I had slept with him, but he didn't know that I did it in our bed (and yes, I out and out lied about that).<p>A friend came in and I vented at her a bit instead. Then I went back out to the bar and told my husband thank you for being honest with me. We ended up having a good time. PLUS, I got *hit* on -- the first time that's happened in over 12 years! Sure did make me feel good. <p>So this morning, I was feeling a bit depressed and antagonizing over the fact that this woman was in my *home*. And a thought came to me -- my husband owes me a birthday gift. Normally, I would just think these thoughts and expect him to read my mind. But I screwed up my courage and told him how much he had hurt me and I would try not to bring it up again since it's in the past and there is nothing I can do to change what happened, but that I felt he owed me a birthday gift. He looked at me for a couple of seconds and then said he agreed, he did. I felt so much better after that (but I still needed to come here and vent! -- Thanks for reading)

how long do you intend to lie (and keep your secret)?<p>The deal about radical honesty is there are no exceptions, you must not have any secrets, if you do they prevent you from ever fully recovering, cause the recovery is based on lies.

Hello there.. sorry about the pain.
I know how painful it can be to find out the truth you wanted or needed to know. It helps us recover over time I think, but damned if it doesnt hurt like hell. My wife told me the facts I had been wondering about the start of the A 2 months after d-day. (when I found out) It was important for me to know, to get the whole picture, but some of it does haunt you for a while. <p>Isnt it better than your imagination though? One thing my WW told me is that they only saw each other at most once a week. which was painful to know it was that often, but then again better than the horrid images my imagination had brought up of them together everytime she was out of my sight.<p>isnt it good to know you H didnt have the OW over your house all the time? Small comfort I know but it might get easier to accept later.<p>One thing about total honesty in recovery is to try NOT to use what they tell you against them. If they think you will just manipulate what they tell you when the release secrets that were hard to say in the first place, it may prevent future honesty, right?<p>Oh well one more thing. This is beside the main point of the post I suppose, but have you ever considered telling him about that A you had? I guess you dont consider it an A because you were seperated. Why I think it might be is because you are techinically married unless you are legally divorced. that includes seperation. I feel that way in my heart too.
Now that of course doesnt mean it is true or not, but the fact that you hid it and feel bad about it, means it you may in your heart consider it cheating as well. If you want true recovery, total honesty is a big factor. You as the BS can understand needing to know right?<p>Good luck on your recovery!
-HI

My husband knows about my affair -- I told him shortly after it happened. At the time I didn't look at it that way (after all he had left me for another woman), but have come to understand that I was also unfaithful. He knows everything about it, except *where* it happened. Back then, when he asked, I lied. <p>As I was typing my earlier message, I realized that by keeping that from him, I'm not sticking to the letter of radical honesty. But to just up and tell him now would serve no purpose other than hurting him (which was why I wanted to do it last night -- you hurt me, I'll hurt you -- and why I didn't, hurting him solves nothing). If he were to ask me, I would then have no choice but to tell him. I expect him to be honest with me and to reveal things that directly impact our lives now (like if the OW contacts him), but I don't expect him to freely offer information from his affairs without me asking (although sometimes he does). I also don't care, at this time, to hear any of details of his relationship with his first OW that he may have omitted or lied about at the time. <p>Perhaps I am justifying my actions in continuing to keep that one thing from him.<p>[ March 08, 2002: Message edited by: Dedex1 ]</p>

yes you are justifying, you cannot decide what he wants to know or not, that is lie of omission, he can't ask about what he doesn't know, that is why radical honesty requires you to make him aware of that...YOU have to decide, not him (and vice versa), otherwise it is a clever (but indefensible) rationalization. <p>How you go about it though allows some leeway, no need to just blurt out something difficult over dinner. But you can let him know there are things you have not fully revealed, and let him decide (through questioning you) how much he wants to know....if he says it is a closed book (and you have not misled him as to the basic contents of the secret) then move on....but there is another aspect of radical honesty...if the INFO affects you in any way, then a spouse needs to let you speak, it is the only way they can truly know you...so radical honesty works both ways, not only has a telling requirement, it also has a recieveing requirement.

He has a right to know that you lied about this. My H also lied to both me and our counselor about bringing the OW into our bed and it devastated me. I redid our entire upstairs to switch bedrooms and I still resent it. But believe me, it would be MUCH worse sleeping there the rest of my life without knowing.

My husband was shocked that for me, one of the most painful things is that exOW was even in my house, not even my bedroom. She kept hounding him to know what I looked like, so when I was away on a business trip he brought her into our living room to see our family photo. (Yes, he had photos in his wallet but they are all from very early in our marriage.) She was convinced I must be ugly or why else would he have an affair. Lord, gotta love those women who think that beauty is the only thing a woman can offer.<p>I felt very, very violated and they hadn't even set foot near the bedroom. I felt spied on and am glad that by the time I learned of the affair we no longer lived in that house.<p>There is a reason why second marriages usually involve new bedroom furniture! You don't want to lie down where your enemy has lain.<p>I think that you do owe your husband that bit of honesty, even if your relationship with this other man did occur during a separation that your husband instigated.<p>No, your husband probably doesn't owe you an explanation of every detail of his affair, but he does owe you the truth about anything that he has lied to you about. An affair is disrespectful, but to my mind, what makes this so awful to those of us whose spouses have strayed is that they strayed, in order to stray they lied, and we believed them. We feel like we can't trust our own senses or our good judgement. "If I can be this stupid once, how do I know it won't happen again?"<p>MJ

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dedex1:
<strong>Back then, when he asked, I lied. <p>If he were to ask me, I would then have no choice but to tell him. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Why would he ask now if he asked back then and thought you were telling him the truth?<p>He did ask. You lied. In whose court is the ball now? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Yep, you are justifying. It is really wrong for you to be angry at your H for doing what you did. <p>Sure you were separated at the time. In some peoples minds that's ok. But you were married and you have not been honest with him either.<p>Honesty is for both of you.