^ [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

I know I have no right to speak for the BS of the MM I was briefly involved with... But now that I am a MB wife, I can sort of imagine what my existence must have done to her, having a baby from the affair, keeping the baby, then filing for child support after 5 years and everything.<p>After reading on here, I sometimes wonder if MM's BS even KNEW about the OC prior to when I filed!!!<p>We had no contact with the MM or his family, CS was handled through the courts and there was only one court date.<p>OC turned out fine considering all the pain I created for his innocent life, my H, OC's stepfather is wonderful and has really loved and raised OC as his own. Now that we have twins, I can truly see he is unbiased. We have grown as a family. H and I talk about my past and he has been able to leave it right there--in the past. I'm grateful for his attitude.<p>I'm sure that because OC was in the picture, it had to have made recovery of MM's marriage much more difficult and painful and loaded with triggers. For one, every month for 13 years when money was diverted from their family finances... I can't even imagine what went on between them, just guessing here...<p>I think that for those of you who have escaped an affair without any OTHER children have a lot to be thankful for cuz that means a few less triggers to deal with. <p>Abiding by the no contact with OP rule for MBing is a heck of a lot easier to decide upon with no OCs involved. Some MBers can do it with contact, with the BS being the go-between, but some cannot and I don't blame them one bit.<p>[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

I just wanted to add something that I heard Dr.Laura say last week and afterward I had sort of a lightbulb moment... She was criticizing a Christian BS for being unwilling to treat the OC equal to the BS's own children (something like that?) because "all children are precious to God..." <p>I thought to myself, YES, all children are precious to GOD, but not all OC's are precious to BETRAYED SPOUSES! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

Excellent topic Zorweb...<p>…….How long has it (been) since d-day and the start of recovery? <p>DDay was almost two months ago (Jan 18 and again on Feb 1 and Feb 4). Recovery started just over a month ago (Feb 8).<p>……..Has the hurt gone away, I mean totally away, if so at what point? A good measure is at what point did it stop affecting your daily thoughts and life in any way.<p>Hurt certainly has not gone away. I no longer think about it constantly but it still occupies my mind more than any other single topic. It still affects my daily thoughts and life.<p>…….At what point did the hurt go away. I mean totally away?<p>Not applicable.<p>…….At what point did the affair induced depression go away… if you experience it at all.<p>I experienced. Boy, did I experience it. It has not gone away. I still take two seperate anti-ds; Zoloft twice a day (and sometimes effixor SR) and Deseril at night to sleep. Without the night medication, I can't sleep at all.<p>……At what point did you stop loosing sleep because of the affair?<p>Haven't yet. I hope to know when such occurs as well.<p>[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: Longing ]</p>

The big assumption here is that you KNOW what your WS's are thinking and feeling. This is not necessarily (or usually) the case. WS's usually DO suffer, quite a bit, but there's a view of them bringing it onto themselves, which is true to an extent. They don't want to share their pain because there is very little (if any) sympathy or support for them...so they put on a brave force and move forward, which makes them look like insensitive jerks (which is exactly in ture with your perception of them, isn't it?)<p>There's a term that Harley throws around when one assumes that they know what someone else is thinking or feeling, and makes judgement of it...it's called a "Disrespectful Judgement"<p>If I'm missing the point here again (as I am wont to do) then just ignore me.<p>[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: TowardsTheFuture ]</p>

TTF,<p>…..re: The big assumption here is that you KNOW what your WS's are thinking and feeling. <p>
I did not start this thread with an assumption that I or any other BS knows what the WS is thinking and feeling. That is why I asked the question of both WS and BS, to get their individual input.<p>In my case, STL and I have discussed what is going on with him many times. So I feel that I have something of a handle on what he is thinking, feeling. <p>…..re: but there's a view of them bringing it onto themselves, which is true to an extent.<p>All affairs and WS are different. In your case I’d say that your marital situation contributed to your affair in a very significant manner. However, in STL’s case our marital situation had absolutely no baring on his choice to have the affairs. So yes, he brought it upon himself, totally. That said, I would never come at him with the ‘you did it, you suffer’ attitude. I think that few BS would. <p>…..re: They don't want to share their pain because there is very little (if any) sympathy or support for them...so they put on a brave force and move forward, which makes them look like insensitive jerks (which is exactly in ture with your perception of them, isn't it?) <p>I am going to take this as your speaking for yourself. I’m sorry that you have no understanding and, sympathy and support at home. That is not the case in all marriages. I’ve provided all of those to STL. We have had plenty of deep discussions about how each of us feels.
If he were to choose not to tell me his feelings, then he is not living up to his agreement to radical honesty. A couple of months after d-day I became concerned because I felt that he was not talking about himself. At that point we talked. He did tell me that he did not want to burden me with his issues, as he felt responsible. I explained to him that by holding it in, not being radically honest, he is actually hurting our marriage and me more. We now are totally open about this.<p>Most BS’s are insensitive jerks who want to punish the WS.<p>….re: which is exactly in ture with your perception of them, isn't it?<p>TTF, you must be having a bad day. I hope it gets a lot better.<p>I can only speak for myself. No I do not believe that all WS are insensitive jerks. Most are people who are seeking something and go about it in a way that hurts others. But they are not total insensitive jerks. That said, there are some WS who are total insensitive jerks, just as there are some BS who are the same.
….re: There's a term that Harley throws around when one assumes that they know what someone else is thinking or feeling, and makes judgement of it...it's called a "Disrespectful Judgement"
I get the impression that you are saying that this thread is based on a disrespectful judgment. According to Harley, most WS will never apologize for their affair and feel totally justified in going outside of the marriage. Many of the literature on recovering a marriage after and affair advises the BS to not even ask questions and not to ever expect an apology for that very reason. Many, many WS tell the BS to ‘just get over it’. There is no disrespectful judgment of any individual here. <p>The reason for this thread was to open some discussion about how each, BS/WS, experience the healing and how they interpret each other’s healing. From the things I have read here. I thought it would be good for WS/BS to share what is going on with them. IMHO this thread has been wonderful. People on both sides have shared things that I hope will help many.<p>Please do not turn this thread into as BS vs WS war. Degrading it to that will only serve to hurt people.

Zorweb,
Great topic! Dday for me was in march of 2000.
I am the bs. I think about the A almost 24 hours a day, (he still works with her, sometimes when I call, she answers the phone-big trigger there!) Although our marriage is actually better than it has been in the 19 years that we have been married, and he is much more loving, I constantly have an aching in my heart. I hope that this eases with time. It is comforting to see the responses of other bs's, and I feel their pain. It is also very comforting to hear the responses from the ws's, my husband says that he feels bad that he hurt me. He just called and I when I told him that I was on the computer, he asked if I was having fun. I told him "Not really fun, I'm on the MB, it's sad." He got very quiet, and when I asked why, he said that he hates that I have to be sad. I tried to explain that I am happy too. Happy because he loves me and that we have such a nice relationship. I don't think he can understand why I just don't let go of the pain.
I just want to thank everyone here for all the support! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

When speaking about thoughts, feelings of BS and WS...I'm not necessarily making a commentary on my home life or your home life or anyone's home life...just making generalizations. <p>I've felt first-hand, here and elsewhere, the "you brought this on yourself" lack of sympathy...please don't pretend it doesn't exist. That, however, is not the point of this thread (and I'm not trying to start a "war", so we'll just drop that subject [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>I'm saying, I guess, that many WS are probably very bothered by what they've done, far more and for far longer than they are willing to let on, because the usual response when they reach out their hand for help is to have it get bitten. The support network for them (if any) is nowhere near as clear or sympathetic as for the BS or even the OP. I'm lucky enough to have an SO who is understanding and supportive...and who actually, strangely, seems far more recovered than I. We're on the verge of being done with couples therapy...and I get to continue in individual therapy on my own (oh goody!).<p>We all have things going on in our head that we don't tell anyone else...it's just important to remember that, although someone may say one thing and present themselves a certain way, that doesn't necessarily mean it's the case. Is it healthy to be this way? Nope...but the reality is that most of us are, unfortunately.<p>[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: TowardsTheFuture ]</p>

Z,
I will briefly put my 2cts in here............
I think that both TTF and you have some very good generalizations and thoughts in the last couple posts. TTF...I can really identify with your thoughts on the WS and how we feel about "sharing". It just doesn't seem "right" to do that sometimes and there is a "great" fear of getting bitten back.
Z.....Your reply and your actions in your own M make the point for the MB process and that is being able to get things out on the table to talk through it and get by it.
Oh well, just a little more "air" to add to the breeze in here! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]
Brw

I just reread what my original post on this thread, boy was I in a downer or what? But the responses have been wonderful. I'd love to hear from more of you.