one of the ow was in my house while I was gone. My neighbor saw her car parked outside once, and when I got home I found a couple of he pens from her beauty school and work here. I also found cigarette butts with lipstick on them (I don't allow smoking, so that pissed me off too). I am now wondering if they slept in my bed? I looked for stains but didn't find any, I did find a bag of condoms from the health clinic, but none of them were missing. He did not know I was coming back today, and he is gone out of town. She obviously didn't know this because I had neighbor leave him a note yesterday, and ow came by and tried to steal it before she was caught by neighbor. She came by again tonight, and must have really been in shock to see me at the door. Gave me some lame excuse that she was coming by for her camera (she's been going on about this camera since dday three weeks ago, but I figure, it was really about a camera she would have asked for it when she was sitting on my couch). Anyway, so now I know that he did not stop contact with her and probably not with the other one either. So my question is, if I had decided to leave, and he kept seeing them, can I blame him for that, I mean I did leave, even though he begged me to come home. And am I asking too much for him to stop contact immediately with these women he's had a relationship with for 2years and the other 10mths? Should I have not come back at all? I came back so quickly because I was so far away, and didn't think we could work anything out through email and ims. But I will admit that when I heard she was at my house, I kinda felt a little more hurried in my decision because I didn't want her getting what she wanted, me out of the picture, and her living in my house, thinking she had been the one he chose, when in fact I was the one who chose to leave. I know I still sound like I'm in the game phase and I want to win him to prove to them that he will never choose them over me, and I really am trying to work on that, but these women just irk me so much, i hate for them to think they got one up on me.
Of course other things are going on here that some of you may remember, like the baby coming in weeks, etc, and they are all reasons I came back, but these others are right up there with them no matter how hard I try to just focus on me. So sick of stressing, any advice???????? <p>Bridgette

It seems from what you wrote that your H was wanting to recover your marriage. That even thought you moved, the idea was to see if you two could come to an agreement to make it work. Is that right?<p>Explain in a little more detail what you two agree on before you left.

Well..how I left..he was supposed to be one place and instead he ended up at the motel with one of the ow, he says he wasn't there, but his truck was, the other other woman came to tell me so I could see for myself (no doubt she was upset that she wasn't the chosen one that night). The next day he acted like it was no big deal, denied he was there (still does). I had had enough that day and packed and left. He begged and begged for me to stay even after I left, but I figured it was the shock of me leaving talking (I have never left before, he is a serial). I wanted to wait and see how he felt after the shock wore off, so we did not agree on anything really. I knew his reaction to me saying I was leaving would be to beg, that's normal, what I wanted to know was after I was gone, would he realize what he was missing, and what he was ruining by doing all of this. I see now that my leaving only took me out of the equation and probably made him think "there is no reason for me to stop seeing them, i'm not hurting her anymore because she left" and since I really do want to work it out I came back, I didn't see us getting anyting worked out through emails, especially if I couldn't see what he was doing as I was so far away. So is there a chance that we can still work it out, or did I ruin it by leaving? All I want is for these women to go away ( a common request I'm sure).

what you did by leaveing was prove he has no interest in the marriage, he just kept on doing the ow, so the shock was not to shocking apparently....there is nothing to save, you have no marriage, he just uses (and services) you for what the benefits you provide.....time to move on, and start intensive counselling about YOU and how you select and stay with men.

FrFrom your description of how you left and that he made no promises here’s my take on it.<p>You have all the right in the world to be upset at his behavior while you were gone, just as you do at his behavior before he left. You have been married through all of it.<p>Just because a spouse leaves for a few days, even if out of anger for the infidelity, is not a Carte Blanc to do as he desires. <p>I do not recall, have you been in Plan A at all? <p>In your case, his behavior is so disrespectful that I would suggest going to Plan B asap. Yes, it is hard to work on a marriage when not together. But there does not seem to be a foundation here at all.<p>That’s just my 2 cents. I’m sure others will come along who disagree with me. From my experience a swift lowering of the boom works better in cases like yours then a protracted Plan A.

I should clarify one thing, we are not married, I know that makes this all the worse, but its pertinent to the situation. We have been living together for four years and are raising two kids and have one on the way but not married. <p>Thank you all for the advice, and I swear I am trying to get to the point where I don't want to be with him anymore, but I just keep wavering for whatever reason. I don't know if I don't want to be alone, or if I don't want him to be with anyone else, or what it is, but its definately confusing and tearing me up. Why I want him at all even alludes me today. I just don't know.

Bump..<p>Oh, and no I have read and read and am taking in all the mb advice, but can't say i see the plan a on here, i was looking for something that clearly said plan a, but i dont see it, if you could point it out that'd be great.

It's listed in the General Welcome

Ok Z, I read it, and it sounds like the fence sitting I read about on Ivillage, for which I am totally against. My reasoning, it sounds like I'm supposed to try to stay with him but let him stay with her too, while he decides what he wants, well that just makes my blood boil, cause nothing changes except that now I know about them and am in some way saying its okay for you to have us both while you make up your mind. Well who's to say he'll choose at all, why should he, if we all dont care that he's with the others,where's the motivation? I do understand where this theory came from, I see that if I say to him its them or me, and he chooses them then its over immediately, whereas if I say (god forbid) okay I'll wait it out until you decide I have a small chance of getting him in the end (though after the heartbreak of "plan a" who's to say I'll want him). I also do see how people can go for this plan a thing, I mean I love him to death and I don't want to lose him and on one hand plan a sounds better than not having him at all, but oh the agony. So I am at wits with myself, something else to figure out. Thanks for your help. <p>bridgette

First of all... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . You certainly got my attention. <p>Sorry... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Ok, now let me read and see what I can do.

I have to say that I am leaning towards Plan B for you. Tough Love ya know? I'm afraid the fact that you are not married, therefore the "official" commitment is not in place, makes things a bit shaky. But there's certainly no reason why you can't be here to learn - for this relationship or future ones.<p>Please read as much as you can on this web-site. I know you feel desperate and rushed. But you need to learn a bit more. In the meantime, while you are studying, posting and reading, begin Plan A immediately. Eliminating Love Busters from your communication with him. THis is common respect anyway. No angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments. ALso, identify his major Emotional needs; sex, admiration, etc.<p>I have so many questions... I'm sure it would help us to be able to help you better..... How long have you been together? Are they your mutual children? How long has he been ummmm... screwing around? (sorry) Have you talked about marriage? How does he feel? Does he want to stay with you? Does he want to raise a family?<p>Hang in there, k?

This is the story: <p>posted February 18, 2002 09:09 AM
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Background: I have been with Keith since October of 97, he cheated on me within a month of us meeting, I didn't stress about it because we had not gotten serious, but I did call it off for about a month when he called to get back together. Same year he cheated with same girl again and other)s) whose names and specifics I don't remember. It was summer vacation from college and I was in another town with my family, when I went to visit him I saw pictures of other women in his album, nothing nasty just women. With a little snooping guided by my intuition I found used condoms, victoria secret underwear and a gift and card from a female all in the trash. He blamed it on his friend who had been staying with him over the summer. I believed him. That fall I moved in, was told not to answer the phone as it may be his mother and father (preacher) and they would not approve. We are in the fall of 98 by the way. Things are okay even though the phone rings off the hook and women leave messages. He has female friends just like I have male ones he says, we are in college and both know a lot of people. Okay I say, but my gut tells me he's cheating. He comes home late from work, but he works at a mall that closes at 9-10, he is working on a promotion at a jewelry store and is staying late with his boss. There is a girl on campus who makes a point of picking with me or coming around and I suspect he and she have something going on. FF to spring 99.
He gets the promotion and now works extremely long hours, quits school completely. I cheat on him while still living in his house it lasts about a month. I tell him and he confesses to oh about 7 women. I find out I'm pregnant, I know its his because when I cheated the other guy never could finish, he had problems (reason it only lasted a month), but understandably he doesn't think its his. We get an abortion. Right before this I had moved in with a friend but he still came by and took me to work(at the same mall) and took me out from time to time. I also moved into a motel for a couple of weeks, he was there the whole time, he payed for the room for two weeks, and we just lived there (even though our house was blocks away). I moved in with him again and then we got the abortion. Weeks later I moved out again (at the time I had my 3year old with me), it was summer vacation again. I found out he had began a relationship with a girl from one of my classes, he was still sleeping with me and I went berserk, I went to his house and broke all his stuff, cut up his furniture, cut all cords, broke all glass and cds and movies. Flooded the bathroom and left. He came by that night mad as hell. We had a fight in roomies apt, and messed up pretty bad, didn't break anything but he poured can corn on me and dish detergent, pepto, everything he could find. Yes we were immature and young. Roomie was called by neighbor and asked us to leave, he agreed to give me a ride to take my daughter back home, it was time for school to start. He then asked me to go with him to check out another school an hour + away because he was thinking of moving. He had been fired from good job and so was I. The next day we took daughter home and took the road trip.
In the new town he decided to look for an apt, so we did. He registered for school. We went back home to get money together and move. I went back to friends house. He comes over one night and friend has neighbors boyfriend over, he's a friend of hers, not with me just there. Well Keith comes over and gets mad cause the guys there and drives off. I later find out the girl he had been seeing agreed to give him the money for the apt but was planning to go up with him so he couldn't take me, therefore he came up with excuse not to (I'm cheating with the guy). I move back in to his house at his request, and keep all the furniture and get a temp job to make money until I go up there with him. I visit him often and one time I run into the other girl, she comes out half asleep in his tshirt and we confront him. He weasels his way out but only because we both chose to go back to him. I find out he's been driving her car an hour and a half in the middle of the night to come see me (now I know why it was always so late). Months later(mid Nov) I go up to see him and she calls that night. Didn't know we were still together. He take phone off hook, says she is psycho. Next day she calls again, and he hangs up on her, she gets mad and drives up. Finds us on campus and throws a fit, he gets in car with her (? I have no idea) and they leave. She goes to nearest cop and tells cop he has a warrant for his arrest, this is true so he gets arrested. He pays bond and gets out, I in the meantime have campus security take me to his house. Get there to find out she has broken in stolen some stuff (some mine) and broken a window by throwing iron through it. He makes report. She flees town. I am leaving little stuff out but, its all jumbled, I think you get the point. For Thanksgiving we are broke and have little to eat, Christmas is same way. We both get jobs and ff to 00. <p>In Feb I find out I'm pregnant. In March he goes to jail for five days for trouble from the last town. I get pages on his pager from someone I call back and its a girl. He gets letter in the mail from same girl saying she loves him. I think she paid to get him out of jail. She and I worked together at a restaurant, but I don't put the two together, as she is white and we are not, and that was just something we didn't do (interracial dating). Not sure what happened then exactly, except that we stayed together, I never heard from her again until way later. Keith is still in trouble and needs a lawyer, we don't have the money, and he "borrows" it from a cousin because he can't go to jail with baby on the way. I later find out that same chick gave him money for the lawyer, by taking out a loan for him, and he was cheating on me while I was pregnant. After baby is born I go to moms for month and a half. I am miserable, and he comes to get me. I still don't know about Amber (thats her name). But apparently she is still giving him money, he takes me shopping when I come home. She buys him a gold bracelet and a Seiko watch. He says he bought it off a guy who needed some money. He goes to Mardi Gras and Spring break in Florida with her money. Things are fine until summer. I snoop in computer and find archived messages they had together about him paying on jewelry bills and bank note. He says I love you and he has a surprise for her. I email her and we talk and I find out everything, its been a year + for them they met a month after I moved in. She was the one who took him to work and paid all our bills when we couldn't. She knew about me but he told her we weren't sleeping together, and she still wanted to be with him. He said he wanted me to move but I wouldn't. I asked her what his excuse was for not moving out, he tells her he's planning on it and they will get an apt together. For some reason I am mad at her and see it as a fight with her, so I decide to win. I confront him and he says he did it for the money. But he will call it off. I don't hear from her again. Obviously I stay. <p>When our son is 10 months (fall 01) I find out I'm pregnant again. Neither of us is amused. In the meantime I am getting hang ups on the phone. I order caller id only to find out its her again. I ask her why she's calling when she knows hes not home and tell her if she continues I will press harrassment charges. I also get a call from another girl who says she has wrong number. But her name rings a bell as being name on a phone number I found in his wallet once. I had called her back then and she said Keith had only been over to her house once, and they had met at work (his new job). But I distinctly remember her calling one morning at 4 saying she needed to speak with Keith it was an emergency. He did not get up. I realize the voice is the same (the brain is amazing). Anyway I get a job with one of Ambers friends who tells me Keith and Amber are still seeing each other. He denies it. She tells me Amber has decided not to see him anymore cause I'm pregnant again and she didn't know that because he still tell her (year later) that he doesn't want to be with me and we don't sleep together, he's there for his son. I don't know what to believe. It is now Januray 02 and I get another job and guess what another one of her friends works there too. She asks me weird questions that make me question who she is. Keith says shes a friend of Ambers. Ok. Whatever. She never says anything more to me but reports back to Amber what I say about me and Keith at work. I know who she is so I feed her info. <p>I am right at 28 weeks now, I work part time, have no car of my own, and have two kids already. I thought things were great between me and Keith finally. I was happy. Until last night, two women show up at my job I recognize Amber immediately though its been years since I saw her last. The other is vaguely familiar as I saw her just the other day getting out of the car that Keith had been driving alot lately (Henry's car) when I picked him up from work. She is Terah. The wrong number phone call. They tell me that they just found out about each other from snooping on Keith. Amber says she is two months pregnant. She has been with him for two years. Terah has been with him for 10 months. We go to my house where Keith is with the kids. We confront him, he says little. Pulls me into the house to talk. I say I'm leaving. He begs me to stay. He says his problem is money. He is addicted to it and will find anyway to get it. In the last town he stole and got in trouble, this time he gets it from other women. He loves me and I should know that because for four years he's taken care of me and my daughter and now our son, and for that I should consider taking him back. He will get counseling for his problem. He will do whatever I say. But I know him, as soon as I want him to answer questions he won't. I've been here before, and I know he's not gonna change, I've waited and waited. He has been accusing me of cheating for the longest, though I haven't. He told them I was pregnant but he didn't think it was his. He tells me now Amber is not pregnant and if she is its not his. I hate the way I feel, I have so many questions that I know I can never trust him to tell me the truth about because everything he says is geared toward getting me to stay, and if he tells me the real truth he knows I won't. I can't believe I love someone like this. I can't believe part of me still wants to stay. I can't anymore, but why does my heart still want him? What the hell is wrong with me? I have no tears left to cry. And I know its my fault I'm here because I should of left the first time. He left and walked to the park (at about 8pm) I have not seen him since. I guess he went to call and mend fences with one of them. My heart is trying to rationalize what he said about why he did it. It wants to believe him. I have no money, no car, and nowhere to go with two kids and one on the way. Except home to my mother who can barely take care of herself. <p>I know I gave wrong advice on the few occasions that I have posted. I told someone to follow their heart, while my heart has lost its marbles, and I'm going to do everything in my power to listen to my mind. If it can convince my heart that I'm not winning any prize by being the one he chooses I'll be in good shape I think. If my mind can convince my heart that even if he could stop cheating it would only be temporary until he could find some unsuspecting girl to talk into this mess too then I may be alright. But if I lose my mind for just one second I'm afraid of what I might do. Please pray for me, I will surely need it. And I'm sorry this was so long I have alot on my plate, unfortunately I fixed it myself and I have to eat it. Thanks for listening.

FF to your question...we are raising my daughter (7) and our son (almost 17mths)and our baby is due early May. Yes we have talked about marriage alot(but hey they say he talked about it with them too, so?) He wants me to stay says his problem is not sexual its about the money they give to him ( a cop out? i don't know).<p> I know he wants his family, but on the other hand it seems he wants to play bachelor too. He is very sweet and easy to believe,and because of how we have lived for four years, with me basically working on and off and him taking care of everything, I know he must feel something for me and my child (even before we had our own), I believe its love, but how could someone who really loved me do all this? He says how could I not believe he loves after all he had done for me that he didn't have to...well i dont't know. He claims to have no feelings for these women, that I don't believe but I know he isn't gonna say any different for fear of what will happen if he does, the proble, with that is that he is not very forthcoming with the whole truth, and I know its still early yet. I know we are not married, but I have invested four years of my life with him knowing all the while that we had a future, and marriage was just a technicality we'd get to soon. In my mind we may as well have been married we've certainly carried on like it (I have anyway). We did everything married couples do except we don't have a marriage liscense. <p>I know this is alot thank you for listening and for all your help.

aaaack [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>just kiddin... I'll just have to read later and get back to you. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Please take care of YOU, and learn all you can about Plan A and Plan B. I'll be right back with some good links for you.<p>Click here and read the Plan A and Plan B links, k? http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=29&t=000554<p>[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Where is everyone today?
Bumping..

You are in over your head on this and he knows it. How do you survive with three children without his financial support. Yet how do you survive emotionally with what he is doing?<p>It seems to me that your first priority here are your children. You are all they really have. In order to take care of your children you need to be the best you can be. Work on you. Start getting the strength you need to handle the situation.<p>As well as reading the materials on this web site, I would suggest that you take a look at the marriagebusting web site. They have a lot of information that could help you become stronger. <p>Do you think there is any chance that he would agree to give up any/all affairs to build a marriage with you?

Oh my goodness, do you have a mess on your hands?<p>I am going to take a giant step back here and ask one small question, how old are y'all? The reason that I ask is that it will impact my responses to you, and I do not want to make you feel any worse than you already do. I hope that you can get some help for yourself and your children real soon, wish I could help more

Z, that's the million dollar question, I know he would say yes, but I'm afraid he would still be trying to sneak, but I stay because I know he is capable and sometimes I believe he will.<p>Lyndy, I am 24 this Saturday and he is 25 (26 in May), but both been living as adults since teenage years since we both come from dysfunctional families ( i.e. for me drugs, abuse, neglect, for him neglect). I had a child in high school and went straight to work so no real teen years for me, and he went to the army right out of high school and to living on his own too. I know we are young, that is part of my dilemma, am I too young to even bother to work this out, but we do have a family......

[img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

I've been thinking about you. {{{{{{mom}}}}<p>I haven't forgotten you, k? I still want to read your story and see what I can do. I have a lot on my plate today, but I wanted to make sure you knew I hadn't forgotten. Maybe you'll get some more help today. I'll be back.<p>How are you??? What are you doing for yourself? Please don't make any hasty decisions right now. Try to relax a little, and take care of YOU.<p>What do YOU think about Plan A and Plan B from your reading? Do you have enough love for him that you want to try Plan A for a bit? What types of Love Busters have you removed from your behavior towards him? Plan A is for YOU... to help YOU become stronger and more at peace with accepting the fact that your relationship may not last. <p>Plan B should be done after Plan A changes have been demonstrated (an environment created so that he would want to remain with you), and also when your love bank is almost empty. How do you feel about Plan B?